What is more important for the future well-being of humankind: Faith or Reason?

[Midnight Pete]

I don't need to pretend life is something other then what it is to find happiness.

I hoipe you never have a reason to re-assess your worldview.

 

[Jeremiah]

I am talking about hope as a noun as opposed to a verb.
Hope: the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best.
"I have hope; things will get better." vs. "I hope things will get better."


You think a humanity without morality is lacking nothing?


If you define faith as a belief without evidence, then morality is a form of faith.

Yes, you can have hope with evidence, but it remains a necessity even when lacking evidence; often those are the times when it is most necessary.


Even as I've noted my complaint in a fundamental difference in a belief that lacks evidence and a belief that lacks enough evidence, faith in humanity's ability to improve can certainly be argued to be the former.

"faith in humanity's ability to improve can certainly be argued to be the former."

And of course, "hope in humanity" is a lot different then "faith" that God exist. One is based in reality and actually has a potentiality of manifesting --hope in humanity's ability to improve--, while the other --faith that God exist--- is completely baseless, and clearly a product of imagination. We know humans can improve themselves, we have seen it before, it is a reasonable conclusion to assume it will happen it again. But the likelihood of something as prosperous as God existing is not good.

 

[Jeremiah]

I hoipe you never have a reason to re-assess your worldview.

My worldview has has been re-assessed many times in my life.

 

[Midnight Pete]

My worldview has has been re-assessed many times in my life.

I believe you.

 

[Jeremiah]

I believe you.

I am so glad I got your approval.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Some seem to think that reason should take a backseat to faith. While others seem to believe not only is faith unnecessary but it is detrimental.

So which do you think is more important to humanity and why?

Faith and Reason should be like the inbreath and outbreath of the lungs or the systole and diastole of the heart.

One is detrimental if the other is neglected.

 

[LuisDantas]

It depends entirely on how you define Faith, Pete. Some popular definitions are nothing but poison.

 

[Midnight Pete]

It depends entirely on how you define Faith, Pete. Some popular definitions are nothing but poison.

I think you're conflating faith with religion.

 

[.lava]

So since I am without faith, and I strive to let reason be my guide in all thing. According to you I should be in misery. But since I am not, as I am a fairly content person, then you must be wrong.

I don't need to pretend life is something other then what it is to find happiness.

i was generally speaking and i certain do not mean it for a piece of time

.

 

[.lava]

MY MAN, GIMME FIVE ON THAT! :woohoo::danana:

i am glad we agree

.

 

[nrg]

As Gödel proved, you can never determine anything without using at least one assumption. But that simply means we need to have some faith, not that the more faith the better. I think that you need to reason before you make assumptions and use Occam's razor, so, reason is by far more important than faith.

Can faith solve the Millenium Prize Problems?

 

[Starsoul]

Faith leads us to curl up in dark corners moving our hands in special motions to ward off the demons and pixies.

Reason brought us to the moon and back.

Ok sorry but i had to say this, going to the moon and back did not cure misery, poverty and suffering.

The Expenses and human resources that went into that could've easily eliminated misery. I , for one, have not gained anything from rocket science, or from the fact that we went to the moon and came back

 

[idea]

Some seem to think that reason should take a backseat to faith. While others seem to believe not only is faith unnecessary but it is detrimental.

So which do you think is more important to humanity and why?

Both faith and reason are needed... the poll is loaded - that is like asking "is it more important to have air or water?" or is it more important to have health or knowledge? all of the above are needed.

What if we had no faith? no faith in banks, no faith in the gov., no faith in the police, no faith in one another, no faith in schools, in family, in God? - that obviously would not work out well.... there are many things for which faith is needed.

Reason - we live in a world of cause/effect, actions/reaction - everything happens for a reason. Nothing happens randomly... "It just randomly happened" - that is the statement of someone who does not want to take personal responsibility for themselves, or their actions.

 

[Starsoul]

Faith And Reason.

When you have faith, reasons are created for you to have more faith.

When you have only reasons, they lead you to a spiral confusion not making up for the loss of faith.IMO.

 

[.lava]

Ok sorry but i had to say this, going to the moon and back did not cure misery, poverty and suffering.

The Expenses and human resources that went into that could've easily eliminated misery. I , for one, have not gained anything from rocket science, or from the fact that we went to the moon and came back

i think some people have faith in science. i understand that. their knowledge let them go to the moon but the same science had some tragic ends as well and people lost their lives. the only thing i don't understand is why some people rather want to see reason and faith against each other. i think it is an illusion, a chosen one

.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Faith leads us to curl up in dark corners moving our hands in special motions to ward off the demons and pixies

How can someone so smart be so dumb?

 

[idea]

Faith leads us to curl up in dark corners moving our hands in special motions to ward off the demons and pixies.

Reason brought us to the moon and back.

Faith has given us love, Meaning, Purpose, a reason to live, strength to cope, hope to go on in the face of insurmountable odds.

In the Korean war, Chinese Communists screened out prisoners with leadership abilities and those with overt religious faith – traits found in about 5% of the population. Frightening trends were observed in the remaining 95% of the prisoners. Left without leaders, there was not one permanent escape from the Korean prison camps even when there was only an average of 6 armed guards to every 500 to 600 Americans, no guard dos, no machine gun towers, no electric fences or searchlights. More alarming, 38% of the prisoners died – not of starvation or epidemics or from any mass executions. Rather, most of the men died of a psychological disease, unnamed by the medical Corps, but dubbed “give-up-itis” by the soldiers themselves. The conclusion of the army’s study was that these boys were ignorant about who they were and what they were fighting for, and so had few inner resources that could give them the courage to rise above their obstacles. (from speech made by Major William Meyer, Army Medical corps, in San Francisco in 1958. This material has now been declassified by the Department of Defense.)

Lusseyran and Victor Frankl wrote similarly of those in concentration camps. Frankl said “They died less from lack of food or medicine than from lack of hope, lack of something to live for.” Frankl goes on to say “Life is not primarily a quest for pleasure, as Freud believed, or a quest for power, as Alfred Adler taught, but a quest for Meaning… He who has a Why to live for can bear almost any how.”

Faith is essential for life and progression.

 

[Starsoul]

i think some people have faith in science. i understand that. their knowledge let them go to the moon but the same science had some tragic ends as well and people lost their lives. the only thing i don't understand is why some people rather want to see reason and faith against each other. i think it is an illusion, a chosen one

.

I think you did not read my second post, I am not against science, merely stating that it does not compensate for the loss of faith. If reason and faith are poles apart, there can be no faith, in either reason, or faith.

 

[Storm]

Actually, that's the exact context in which I'd use hope. I don't believe I'm going to find a bag with a million dollars in it, but I sure hope that happens. Also, I believe my dogs will be excited to see me when I get home, and I hope they are. Hope doesn't require you to believe something will happen.

OK, I see your point. It's a valid meaning.

I think there's another meaning that runs deeper, though. Like the hope that things will get better.

 

[waitasec]

I am talking about hope as a noun as opposed to a verb.
Hope: the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best.
"I have hope; things will get better." vs. "I hope things will get better."

the noun, describes a desire
the verb is feeling the feeling
just because you hope doesn't mean things will get better...

so i fail to see how hoping does anything but evoke a desire...