So God in my worldview isn't perfect in all those respects. But I believe God to be the Creator of my soul/spirit, which is who I really am, not my current material body, and it is to God that I will return eventually, wherein I will find eternal peace. I don't worship God so much as remember Him and that with Him Alone will I find eternal peace.
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What is Perfect?
- Thread starter Exaltist Ethan
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- perfect perfection theology
So God in my worldview isn't perfect in all those respects. But I believe God to be the Creator of my soul/spirit, which is who I really am, not my current material body, and it is to God that I will return eventually, wherein I will find eternal peace. I don't worship God so much as remember Him and that with Him Alone will I find eternal peace.
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
I view perfection like I view infinite. I don't believe anything is truly perfect or infinite. But I believe God is both, and that God exists. How does this make sense? Because everything is eternally become more Godlike, more perfect and infinite every single day. The Universe is expanding its boundaries at the speed of light and human life, even for those like me who are on welfare, is infinitely better than the kings who ruled vast lands thousands of years ago. I have an infinity symbol tattooed on my left wrist to remind me that while it doesn't exist, we are getting closer and are attempting to reach closer to it every single day.
And to quote the famous author John Green, "Some infinities are larger than others."
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
I love this idea for a thread. It's a lot more positive than I'm used to seeing on RF, and it asks something quite unique.
I am an atheist, and I don't believe in objective perfection in the sense that many religions speak about.
However, I do think that "perfect" is subjective, as many other people have pointed out. My idea of perfection is a world where everyone is happy, feels loved, treated equally, and humanized as a person.
I'd like to do my best to bring us closer to that world, but my own flaws and impotence certainly prove formidable obstacles. Still, as you say, I do what I can to try to achieve that perfection.
I am an atheist, and I don't believe in objective perfection in the sense that many religions speak about.
However, I do think that "perfect" is subjective, as many other people have pointed out. My idea of perfection is a world where everyone is happy, feels loved, treated equally, and humanized as a person.
I'd like to do my best to bring us closer to that world, but my own flaws and impotence certainly prove formidable obstacles. Still, as you say, I do what I can to try to achieve that perfection.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I am sorry, but any world where everyone is having subjective feelings of being happy and loved, and of being treated equally, yet also are going to eventually experience subjective suffering from dementia or other severe illness and pain that leads to death, is definitely not perfection imho.
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
Don't be sorry. Just like me, you're condemned with the existential responsibility to define this concept on your own terms. There's no objective right or wrong way to do that, so there are going to be disagreements.
That's why we have discussion, right?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Differences of understanding yes. It seems we are all aware that we exist, but not all are seriously interested in understanding fully what it is we really are in the context of universal existence, so logically those that are may understand more than those that are not interested.Don't be sorry. Just like me, you're condemned with the existential responsibility to define this concept on your own terms. There's no objective right or wrong way to do that, so there are going to be disagreements.
That's why we have discussion, right?
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
It's possible. At the same time, it's possible that, despite humanity's efforts, every single one of us has failed to grasp even an inkling of the truth about what we really are in the context of universal existence.
Personally, I try not to think in such absolutist terms and stick to beliefs that I think are the most justified, which I'm sure is quite common. It's hard (if not impossible) to know whether those justified beliefs are objectively true or not in most cases, though, unless we're arguing math or semantics.
Luckily, as Karl Popper showed, we can know with absolutely certainty that some things are false, and science gives us tools for falsifying those. While this works for science, I have to admit that the rigor of science is somewhat infeasible for daily life, so this really only works for very specific questions we have the resources to investigate.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
The term perfect is related to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Perfect is considered the good side of the coin while imperfect is connected to the evil/flawed side of the same coin.
A better word to describe God, is completeness. Completeness encompasses all things. When God became man this was a step down in terms of his divine perfection, but it made God more complete. Complete leaves the option open for future changes that may not be part of any objective or subjective temporal perfection. Perfection stops us in time; pitched the perfect game. Completeness comes only with the continued propagation of time and includes all future creativity and change that is still unfolding, but not yet available to be included in any temporal definition of perfection. Perfection is 2-D, while completeness is 3-D.
An interesting human nature observation that may be the basis for some bible symbolism, can be seen with boys and girls in school. Girls tend to follow the rules sooner than boys. Boys are often more maverick. There are exceptions. Girls instinctively seek perfection even at a young age. Boys, by bending the rules, are instinctively seeking completeness. Not following the rules makes you imperfect to the rules but complete.
The tradition of Eve tempted by Satan and the tree of knowledge, appears to be connected to this innate female perfection. When men and women marry, the wife will try to harness the maverick in her mate and lead him toward social perfection; Adam then eats of the tree of knowledge of good, evil and perfection. Through his willful choice, for shared married perfection, and his innate need for completeness, Adam became more complete.
In Christian symbolism, Jesus was considered perfect on terms of love and sacrifice. But in the future; second coming, Jesus becomes more complete as a warrior who fights for righteousness. With the propagation of time new things are added that may not seen as consistent with perfection, but which will make things more complete.
A better word to describe God, is completeness. Completeness encompasses all things. When God became man this was a step down in terms of his divine perfection, but it made God more complete. Complete leaves the option open for future changes that may not be part of any objective or subjective temporal perfection. Perfection stops us in time; pitched the perfect game. Completeness comes only with the continued propagation of time and includes all future creativity and change that is still unfolding, but not yet available to be included in any temporal definition of perfection. Perfection is 2-D, while completeness is 3-D.
An interesting human nature observation that may be the basis for some bible symbolism, can be seen with boys and girls in school. Girls tend to follow the rules sooner than boys. Boys are often more maverick. There are exceptions. Girls instinctively seek perfection even at a young age. Boys, by bending the rules, are instinctively seeking completeness. Not following the rules makes you imperfect to the rules but complete.
The tradition of Eve tempted by Satan and the tree of knowledge, appears to be connected to this innate female perfection. When men and women marry, the wife will try to harness the maverick in her mate and lead him toward social perfection; Adam then eats of the tree of knowledge of good, evil and perfection. Through his willful choice, for shared married perfection, and his innate need for completeness, Adam became more complete.
In Christian symbolism, Jesus was considered perfect on terms of love and sacrifice. But in the future; second coming, Jesus becomes more complete as a warrior who fights for righteousness. With the propagation of time new things are added that may not seen as consistent with perfection, but which will make things more complete.
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Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
You, me, the flower, the star, and everything that exists are expressions of universal existence, surely the consciousness of the more evolved expressions of universal existence realize that any perceived separation between their existence and that of the whole may be due to their yet insufficient understanding of what and who they really are.
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
I would be inclined to agree with you that we are all, in some sense, a part of the universe. I can't say that I think that's absolutely true, but I think you could make a strong argument for why it's more justified than something like solipsism or metaphysical anti-realism.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
Like the universe? How we experience life as we are? I don't see through your eyes, but I'm not empathy barren. Walking in the shoes of others can be a beneficial practice, and maybe by doing so we get too caught up in those shoes, but I remain an individual - I experience the whole only as I, as an individual can. I feel a sense of separation, and although I identify as a unique part of the whole, this doesn't make me separate from - I see with my eyes (visually) I see see with my nose through smell, I see by touch, and I hear - these are all parts that help me understand my surroundings and through them I experience the universe only as I can. I see no point discarding my ID in favor of being absorbed by the greater whole, given I'm part of that whole already. I have my functions as I am - One body - many parts -
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
There is no discarding of your ID, instead of being a mere mortal, you have the potential to become an Immortal. Jesus explained it this way, the Father and I are one. If Jesus refused to Self identify with the Father, he would have remained a mere mortal who was devoted to God.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
I'm not interested in immortality - There are days that seem to last too long. A continuation of life - for humans - Well, I'm on board with that. I'm an evolutionist, so I see us evolving as time marches on and drags us with it. The father? Well, wouldn't that be an equality claim with existence and the source of life, the way things are - You know, real stuff - Factual and verifiable truths about life and how the mechanics of, which comes down to understanding and learning how to see truthfully - without the "wool". An honest spirit, the spirit of truth, the one Jesus spoke about having the ability to guide into all truth. It makes sense to me - Being one with God is an acknowledgement of all being god and claiming or acknowledging that we too are parts of the larger body of. Separation is an illusion, but then how many can claim being an equal with? Like i stated, it's an understanding, a state of mind, an acknowledgement of being ... One with, yet individual enough to have a personal role in the greater picture as we are, not necessarily as others would want us to be. Self-acknowledgement, which is likewise ego driven via our identities as unique parts yet necessary parts of the whole. I have a role as I am - So does everyone else - I call it self discovery 101, but then that is a life long study.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
It is just as well you are not interested in immortality, the human body ego self can never attain immortality anyway. My best wishes to you in your life ahead..