What is property?

[Mathematician]

I have a few questions. You can be selective with them:

- What do you define as property?
- How does one properly acquire private property?
- Can air and water constitute private property?
- Land and labor (or energy) are thought to be the two sources of wealth. If that's true, should there be some way to distinguish between the two?

 

[doppelganger]

I have a few questions. You can be selective with them:

- What do you define as property?
- How does one properly acquire private property?
- Can air and water constitute private property?
- Land and labor (or energy) are thought to be the two sources of wealth. If that's true, should there be some way to distinguish between the two?

1. Portions of tangible reality over which one is recognized by law as exercising a level of sovereignty greater than that recognized for others.

2. A wide variety of ways, but the gist of them all is by establishing superior title. It can be by "seizure" or "capture", by conveyance, by "adverse possession" and many, many other legal modes (and even equitable ones).

3. Sometimes. It depends on how it is kept.

4. Sure.

 

[ChristineES]

I am half Navajo, so I don't fully understand how people can own land. I mean the house or other building on that land may be your property (it belongs to you) but how can someone own the land. That land has been around for billions of years, mostly with no people on it. I do understand that people fence off their property for farming, ranching, personal use and so on-- they own it, have a deed, put barbed wire around to keep others out, but do they really own it?

 

[doppelganger]

I do understand that people fence off their property for farming, ranching, personal use and so on-- they own it, have a deed, put barbed wire around to keep others out, but do they really own it?

What does it mean to "really own" something? What's meant by ownership of land is a legally enforceable right of "use and enjoyment." They may not "really" own it, but things like titles, court orders and police officers mean they own it more than you do. That's the central feature of property law - the extension of a bundle of enforceable superior rights to use and and enjoyment.

 

[ChristineES]

That is what I meant. You may legally own something but it really belongs to all the people of the earth. That is how I feel about land.

 

[whereismynotecard]

- What do you define as property?

Stuff that you own would be your property. Like objects and land and whatever else that you can say belongs to you.

- How does one properly acquire private property?

Buy it and pay taxes on it where I'm from, because the world sucks.

- Can air and water constitute private property?

Might as well... I wouldn't want people breathing air that hangs over my yard.

- Land and labor (or energy) are thought to be the two sources of wealth. If that's true, should there be some way to distinguish between the two?

Hmmm... I'm too stupid for this one.

 

[fEtish]

- What do you define as property?
Something that you claimed for yourself before anyone else or something you claimed from someone else with their consent.
- How does one properly acquire private property?
By acquiring it before someone else acquires it, or acquiring it from someone else with their consent.
- Can air and water constitute private property?
Yes
- Land and labor (or energy) are thought to be the two sources of wealth. If that's true, should there be some way to distinguish between the two?
Not necessarily, I'm not sure I understand your question fully. If you mean what I think you mean, then no you should not need to distinguish between them. Assuming you can establish their monetary value, because that's all it boils down to considering they are "thought to be the two sources of wealth".

 

[Mathematician]

- What do you define as property?
Something that you claimed for yourself before anyone else or something you claimed from someone else with their consent.
- How does one properly acquire private property?
By acquiring it before someone else acquires it, or acquiring it from someone else with their consent.
- Can air and water constitute private property?
Yes
- Land and labor (or energy) are thought to be the two sources of wealth. If that's true, should there be some way to distinguish between the two?
Not necessarily, I'm not sure I understand your question fully. If you mean what I think you mean, then no you should not need to distinguish between them. Assuming you can establish their monetary value, because that's all it boils down to considering they are "thought to be the two sources of wealth".

Thanks for the response. I have to ask for a slight elaboration then. All civilizations which claim to recognize private property were built on top of theft from civilizations that didn't: in America, native tribes lost millions of acres of land to European settlers. In Europe and the Middle East, pagans lost to the Romans. In North-East Asia, the Han Dynasty fell apart by increasing pressure from local establishments.

Is there then no justifiable starting point to acquiring private property? Shouldn't all private property be turned over to the descendants of the first evident owner, even if that owner may be a group?

 

[Neo-Logic]

This is the "general debates" forum. Do you have an argument on personal, real, private, or public property?

This discussion seems kind of pointless and vague.

 

[doppelganger]

Is there then no justifiable starting point to acquiring private property?

Procedure is power. The first person to invoke legal process to materialize superior title in legal/social reality is the "owner." See e.g. the "rule of capture."

In the world of legal fiction in which we have our being, nothing can be stolen from those who lack a recognized legal mechanism by which ownership may be claimed. Convenient system . . . . provided you have more and bigger weapons.

 

[DallasApple]

I thought property was something that belonged to you..Or speciafically that you "owned" or "possessed"..

Love

Dallas

 

[3.14]

- What do you define as property?

everything you consider to be yours

- How does one properly acquire private property?

if 2 people consider the same thing there property then you can ask a thirde party to decide whos property it is

- Can air and water constitute private property?

only if the air/water is contained in products bought and paid for

- Land and labor (or energy) are thought to be the two sources of wealth. If that's true, should there be some way to distinguish between the two?

yes, an acare of land consists of about 2 truckloads of donuts worth of posible money
labor is generaly determined by the skill the work needed or the duration and can range from 1 donut to around a hundered truckloads full of them

 

[Neo-Logic]

Oh god this pointless thread. Are we that bored?

 

[Mathematician]

Oh god this pointless thread. Are we that bored?

It's pointless to get an understanding of different views towards property and the purposes/ways of acquiring it? If you say so.