Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Mindfulness. Though I would distinguish between thoughts and mind because in my view thoughts arise "in" the mind.
What's your answer?
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What is self-awareness?
- Thread starter Gambit
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Mindfulness. Though I would distinguish between thoughts and mind because in my view thoughts arise "in" the mind.
What's your answer?
raw_thought
Well-Known Member
" People are scared to empty their minds fearing that they will be engulfed by the void. What they don't realize is that their own mind is the void".--Huang Po
mystic64
nolonger active
Simply put, we are a biological computer with both a hormonal (chemicals that cause one to ignor programming
) and a programming system. And what the mystic does is explore the possibility of becoming more than just automated computer programming and hormonal switches. Scientific purests say that this is not possible and mystics and some religious and self realization type folks say that it is possible. The problem is "proof" . Legend says that there were folks in the past that could do some fantastic unexplainable things that were living examples/"proof", but in today's world and in recent history there doesn't seem to be any living examples that science can study, so therefore no "proof". We are the sum total of our "programming" and excaping "progamming" is not possible. "Programming" can be changed but we are still the sum total of our programming. Until there is "proof". I have been a mystic for over sixty years now for practically the exclusion of everything else, but I can not prove in a pure scientific sense that we are or can be more than biological computers with a personality programming system that defines and creates our actions and thoughts. Now as an empath with some telepathic abilities I know for a fact that there is a "profoundly powerful force with a conscious mind" and that we can interact with this force's mind. The problem is that "it" does not think like we do . It's mind exists in a "non conceptual workings mind reality" and our minds because of our mind's programming does not. Our minds exist in a "conceptual working mind reality". To truly interact with this other mind one has to dump their programming and learn how to exsit in the kind of mind environment that "this" and other minds similar to "it" exist in. The goal of all mystic traditions and self realization traditions is to teach one how to do this. And they all have different ways of doing this, I personally did it outside of tradition as an independent mystic, but I still understand the why of the tradition approach. I can interact with this "profoundly powerful force with a conscience mind", as well as some other minds, but I can not "prove" it in a pure scientific sense.Spiny Norman my friend
, Papoon is in training to interact with this "profoundly powerful force with a conscious mind" and his approach to your questions is based on the level that he has achieved in his training. And as time goes by his approach will become different because of the learning experiences that he will experience. And yes thoughts do arise in the mind, but in order to exist in the mind reality of the "profoundly powerful force" thoughts do not arise in the mind and all concepts of self do not exist . Because it they do, then you can't be there and if you attempt to be there it will become a very terrifying experience. Which for the most part most folks do not want to experience.
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Simply put, all things. All thought. Or, to use other terminology, the "content" of thought.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
And yes thoughts do arise in the mind, but in order to exist in the mind reality of the "profoundly powerful force" thoughts do not arise in the mind and all concepts of self do not exist
By "profoundly powerful force" do you mean God? And how have you experienced this?
I take mindfulness (sati or smriti) as a quality of consciousness or a state of being aware. A state, I think, is not same as the seer/knower of thoughts/mind.
Mind, as per some Hindu thoughts, is material, akin to a mirror that reflects objects arising in self, which is essentially pure awareness. Some others define mind as a bundle of thoughts only.
Irrespective of what the mind is, the self awareness is self evident and requires no external proof.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Sure, there is self-awareness, or consciousness of our mental activity. The difficulty comes when we try to analyse it. Is it just an inward-facing facet of consciousness or is it something more?
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Actually I agree from the perspective of my background. Who will know the knower? Who will see the seer? YMMV.
mystic64
nolonger active
This is the Philosophy DIR
, so I am not sure if we are suppose to talk about God . But because philosophy is basically a mind experience with little or no evidence support, I suppose we can talk about experiencing other minds . And maybe how "self" relates to some of these other minds. As a yogi you can reach a level where you can experience "samadi" (a mind/emotion union) with other living things to a more or less degree. Basically "self" ceases to exist (or is extremely quiet) and you experience the experience of whatever it is that you are in "samadi" (empathic union) with. If you are born an empath, then you do not need to study to learn how to do this. And your main problem is learning how to shut it off or at least quieting it down.Yes I have experienced "It" (the profoundly powerful force with a conscious mind) many times. And I have spent the last sixty years or so exploring it and attempting to understand it as a mystic/empath. And this study would have to be considered in the relm of pure philosophy at least relative to science, because there is "zip" (none) for science involved. And to make a long story short, this whatever "It" is, is not self aware. And at the sametime part of this "It" is not an automated reality, while the other part of "It", is an automated reality. And the automated part (electronic RAM, no hard drive memory) is just storage and with no subconscious (automated) personality programming like it is with the human mind. Once you get through the part where "It" is not self aware (it just is), then the next part is that the processing speed of "It's" mental processes are so fast that time appears to stand still. And the only way that you can mesh with this is to just quit thinking. So the first thing that one needs to do is to dump the concept of self and self awareness because "It" doesn't think that way and then the second thing is to "quit attempting to think and to process information because "It's" processing speed is so incredibly fast. All you can do is just step into it and go with the flow and when you can do that "It" will share "It's" experience with you.
Is it just an inward-facing facet of consciousness or is it something more? The problem that you are up against with understanding the answer to your question is the "fear" that is programmed into the personality programming of the subconscious (automated part) mind. When one tries to analyse self awareness or consciousness of our mental activity these fears come up in a way that forces one to adapt the conclusions to meet the needs of these fears. Because, the true conclusion or understanding would tell one that none of these fears are real and one's fears tell them that without these fears one will die. And if one refuses to listen to these fears, then the automated part of the mind begins to shut down the physical and mental working of one's mind and body automatically without permission from the conscious mind
. And if one pushes it too fast, it can result in extreme illness and even death.
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Self-awareness is the realization that you do exist, that you are a singular identity, that you have your own mind and will, your own thoughts, ideas, and perceptions that are unique all unto to your own being. To be self-aware is to say in Truth "I am that I am"!
Gnothi seauton.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I haven't experienced fear. It's more the difficulty of examining consciousness with consciousness, trying to be aware of being aware.
Papoon
Active Member
The trying is futile. One is aware. The attempt to understand or analyse awareness blocks the profound peace, and the siddhis.
In our culture we overvalue the analytical mind, IMO.
There are 75 trillion cells comprising a human body. Of these, only 100 billion or so are brain cells (some estimates say 200 billion) - maybe one fiftieth of our body cells.
There is an assumption that only brain cells are involved in awareness. I doubt that.
And of the brain cells, only half constitute the neuronal system. The other half is the glial brain, about which we know nothing much yet compared to our knowledge of the neuronal system.
And of the brain, only a portion (unknown) is involved in the process known as conscious thought.
So only a tiny fraction of the whole body performs the function we generally call self, or recognise as mind.
This tiny portion is generally the whole focus of our attention - and is the part which is involved in 'trying to understand '.
In my experience, and practice, that aspect of ourself is what is 'renounced', left like shoes at the door of the meditation room, if we wish to move beyond the limiting factor of ego.
We demand an understanding in the terms of this tiny subset of our whole self, and this blocks the experience of whole-body-wisdom, which does not function as discursive thought.
I think this is also what Gautama was addressing when he talked of the aggregates, and that they are not self.
This miniscule fraction of the whole experience more or less hijacks the flow of mind, most of which is not within the purview of this ego process.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
There is a strong focus on mindfulness of the body in Buddhist practice. Discursive thought is just an activity of the mind, another thing to be aware of.
I don't conflate self and mind, by the way.
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Banjankri
Active Member
Reflective knowledge about being able to control. Part of our wholistic experience, which we call the self, has this unique quality of causing change. Being conscious of it, is self-awareness.
Free will, in other words. Unfortunately, no one knows how it works.
mystic64
nolonger active
Spiny Norman you have sure hit the nail on the head with that one
! It's more the difficulty of examining consciousness with consciousness, trying to be aware of being aware. Science claims that you can not observe or explore something without affecting it or changing it . The act of trying to be aware of being aware affects the qualities of "aware". Papoon is right about, "The attempt to understand or analyse awareness blocks the profound peace, and the siddhis.' And the more that one trys to understand the more things go around in circles. That is why mystics reach a point where they understand by not trying to understand ,(how is that for some kind of "Zen" stuff " ?)
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
"The attempt to understand or analyse awareness blocks the profound peace, and the siddhis.' And the more that one trys to understand the more things go around in circles. That is why mystics reach a point where they understand by not trying to understand
I don't think it's about trying to analyse, rather to know directly. That is more likely to occur when the mind is calm and peaceful.
mystic64
nolonger active
How about this just for fun? If one can achieve a perfectly quiet and calm mind, self ceases to exist and awareness becomes infinite. If of course one does not fall asleep
.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Yes, that the first formless jhana in Buddhism. Interesting!
That one dude...
Why should I have a faith?
Self-awareness is easy! You know what it's like to be you better than anyone else. Knowing what it's like to be someone else (empathy) is far more difficult.