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What is the deal with YmirGF? (an interview)

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
YmirGF if you are up to continuing this interview (I don't want to make you answer questions forever),

I have some more that I am thinking about that I can post this evening.
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
  • Walk us through a particularly memorable “dream within a dream” (DWD).

  • Is there a purpose or goal that you have in your DWD’s now?

  • You mention that you think about something and then it is before you. Do you travel to the event or does the event travel to you or is that distinction meaningless?

  • Are you able to control others in the dreams?

  • In a DWD, must you interact with reality or can you conjure things such as the Cheshire cat if you so desired? How confident are you that the things you see are real?
I better stick to 5 questions at a time even though I have about 30 more in my head.

I'm a Beatles fan so thanks for the info. :)
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Walk us through a particularly memorable “dream within a dream” (DWD).
Sheesh, how much am I getting paid for this again? *giggle*

It will sound a bit confusing but in the DWD as you have dubbed it, there are actually 3 (or more) perspectives in play. I mean literally (3 or more) simultaneousperspectives.

Perspective1 = the normal dreaming self's willy nilly viewpoint in dreams. This should be clear enough, as that is how most people dream. Think of this as an area on a stage, say, to the right that is lit up and the action is ongoing. (This is an arbitrary designation btw.)

Perspective2 = the fully conscious self in its own separate dream area. Think of this as being an area on a stage say, to the left that is lit up and a different scenario is unfolding there. This is a special area in that it often seems "super real", so much so that it is difficult to forget it once one "wakes" from the "dream".

Perspective3 = is of a view that literally sees/perceives both (or all) other "dreamlets" simultaneously and is somewhat like watching two TV channels at once while following each seamlessly. This vantage point is from the viewpoint of the unaffected viewer who is imply watching, with interest, how the dream events play out. It is not judgmental in any way and simply observes. You could call this the view of the dispassionate self.

The important thing to be aware of here is that my arbitrary designation of P1 can actually be a collection of "dreamlets" or "dream sequences", each in their own part of the stage. Also, there is always the aspect of the conscious "director" (here referred to as P2) who is consciously creating the dream sequences. Finally, there is always the overall perspective.

Sadly, it would take too long to recount a specific "dream set" because of all of the elements present in those dreams and again, all those perspectives. If I can boil it down to under 10,000 characters I might do so at a later time, but not now.

Is there a purpose or goal that you have in your DWD’s now?
I do it simply to explore my own creativity, and in that way it is like an inner workout. Use it or lose it, basically. Curiosity, as it has the potential for being a tremendous "what if" environment. Aside from this it is simply a lot of fun. You have my apologies if that sounds petty but I'm not about to imply that it can’t be a great deal of fun. In essence, there is no specific purpose although I do sense a goal, only even now, I am not sure why it is important to explore reality in this manner other than an abiding sense that it is important and that there is something to be gained. I am leaning towards saying that this is a rich, deeply personal, learning environment. In theory, one could do "research" in such an arena and here I am thinking in terms of theoretical physics.

You mention that you think about something and then it is before you. Do you travel to the event or does the event travel to you or is that distinction meaningless?
The distinction is meaningless as "you" are within all the aspects of the DWD('s). In this respect there is not need to travel into a "dreamlet" because you are already there, as the "lead character". You do hit on an interesting thought though. While typing this I was struck by the idea that perhaps people already experience this in the respect that their odd disjointed dreams, where scenes morphs into seemingly unrelated scenes, could possibly be an unwitting combination of all three perspectives. This would certainly lend itself to explaining the often bizarre plot twists people often encounter in their nightly dreams.


Are you able to control others in the dreams?
Yes and no. Realizing one creates the experience does allow for a measure of control but this is more like creating "live theatre" where the "participants" add-lib their way along based on the understanding of the person that precipitates the dream. With practice, yes, one does gain a distinct measure of control, but it is more like my original discussion of the foibles of autosuggestion. It is like the so-called “unconscious” mind digests the "director's thoughts" and instantly creates a mini-drama outlining those thoughts in highly personal and sometimes quite amusing ways. I say amusing because we often hit ridiculous things in dreams that are meant to draw our attention to the simple fact that we are dreaming. Partially conscious, we receive these triggers that are designed to help us awaken to this fact. For example, when you witness something in a dream that is either highly improbable in physical terms or outright impossible in physical terms those events, or triggers, should alert the dreamer to both the fact that they are dreaming and that they should "wake up" to the fact. It is as obvious as it is disgustingly simple.


I’m thinking that this is the “larger identity’s” hilarious sense of humor at play. You can almost sense the bugger hovering wherever and musing, “This ought to rock his/her cage a bit. I wonder if she/he will even notice this time -- maybe, just maybe.”

Now: Like all forms of action, there is a limit to how long one can "hold" the perspective of the "director". This may last for only scant moments or it can last for considerably longer. It takes both practice and learning how to focus ones attention. Meditation is a great asset in building focus, although any pursuit that develops intense focus could be a suitable "springboard". I hope that is clear. *Dons his glasses* Ah, now even the text is clear to my ageing eyes, lol. Hopefully my meaning is too.


In a DWD, must you interact with reality or can you conjure things such as the Cheshire cat if you so desired? How confident are you that the things you see are real?
If you really wanted a
Cheshire kitty to appear in a tree above you or perhaps below you as you flew over it, I suppose. The second question is the prize however.

*Adopts conspiratorial tone*
You see, dreams are illusions, very creative illusions, but nonetheless illusions. In this respect they are not “real”, at least not in the way we normally think of the term “real”. The thing is, when you add the element of full consciousness to the mix it is not so simple to draw that line. For example when you understand that your conscious thought process, depending on the intensity of the thought chain, will precipitate a dreamlet fleshing out the thought in a mini-drama with another aspect of you that is not terribly conscious at its centre you immediately begin to do two things:

1. You start chuckling.
2. You begin to pay attention to what you are thinking as you begin to understand the direct impact your thoughts have on the dreamlet’s or mini-drama’s.

I better stick to 5 questions at a time even though I have about 30 more in my head.
I like that idea Comprehend, as it took me awhile to write this and much more could be a bit overwhelming. Even though I am quite knowledgeable in these areas it is still difficult for me to find the words to express my perceptions. As you can see, some answers are considerably more involved that one might expect and I am trying to be succinct.


I'm a Beatles fan so thanks for the info.
“When you've seen beyond yourself -
Then you may find peace of mind, is waiting there -
And the time will come when you see we're all one,
And life flows on within you and without you.”
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
YmirGF,

First, I apologize profusely for my mistake. You have been very patient and a terriffic interviewee. My attention has been focused on school quite a bit lately and I was thinking that I was waiting on you rather than you waiting on me. Definitely my mistake.


New round O' questions:

1. Does it feel natural that you are able to follow all the action from multiple perspectives simultaneously? The way you describe it, the feat sounds effortless, are you able to actively process information from separate perspectives at the same time? (you cannot do this when awake right?)

2. You mention the idea of using the dream world as a testing grounds of sorts. Is the reality/framework of the dream arena resricted by your own knowledge and mental ability or are you tapping into something else in a way that NEW information and knowledge can be disseminated to you?

3. Do you think it is possible to interact with other actual beings in your dreams. i.e., could you and another individual go to sleep, begin dreaming, meet and interact in a single dreamscape such that when both awoke, each would know what occured in the dream? If yes, have you ever encountered another dream-person?
(the intersubjective verification would answer a number of questions)

4. Are you able to modify your perspective? For example, could you "zoom out" as it were and view the entire galaxy in the palm of your hand or become as small as an electron? Can you do impossible things such as stop time?

5. What is the most important thing you have learned in your years of dreaming?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
First, I apologize profusely for my mistake. You have been very patient and a terrific interviewee. My attention has been focused on school quite a bit lately and I was thinking that I was waiting on you rather than you waiting on me. Definitely my mistake.
Well at least we didn't hit the gas simultaneously and crash in the middle of the intersection.


New round O' questions:
and very good questions they are. I actually had to think about these ones for more than a nanosecond.


1. Does it feel natural that you are able to follow all the action from multiple perspectives simultaneously? The way you describe it, the feat sounds effortless, are you able to actively process information from separate perspectives at the same time? (you cannot do this when awake right?)
Yes it does "feel" quite natural. It is simply refining focus. To be honest, one doesn't even think it is an odd perspective, but rather, physical perspective is odd in contrast.


As to the second part of this, yes, it is quite effortless, but by the same token it does take focus. It is incredibly difficult to render the process into words and linear thought. It is more a case that there is a "localized" aspect of self in each instant. Those aspects are, in fact, autonomous, but "you" can get a "status report" for the asking (in this case simply turning your consciousness to that given aspect of self and almost instantly you see/perceive things from its (the alternate you's) perspective). You can make suggestions and those suggestions become part of their perception of reality. It's very hard to describe. The thing to keep in mind is the "alternate you" or "aspect" is not bound by your "suggestions" although for the most part "they" assimilate your perspective into "their" own. The flip side of this cosmic coin is that "we" react to stimuli or "suggestion" for alternate aspects of our larger identity as well and these pulses arise in our consciousness as what may well be described as "desire".

Although the following may seem to be totally contradictory one must keep in mind that there are no real boundaries or separations between aspects of self. These designations result from trying to put a non-linear process into linear terms that can be deciphered by our type of consciousness. I do hope that makes sense.

2. You mention the idea of using the dream world as a testing grounds of sorts. Is the reality/framework of the dream arena restricted by your own knowledge and mental ability or are you tapping into something else in a way that NEW information and knowledge can be disseminated to you?
Yes, it can be a testing ground in a manner of speaking somewhat like performing dry runs or sketching out areas on paper before tackling a larger project just to zoom in on particular areas of a problem set. In essence, the dreamscape can be used as high level winnowing processes for trying out ideas without the need of physical (and resulting highly complex) support structures. It is like using a highly advanced form of VR that is custom made for the individual and not at all unlike the famous Holodeck on Star Trek:TNG. Rather than going through "time" consuming modification in a physical model, alterations can be instantly applied in the dreamscape once "full" consciousness is added to the equation. It does take a tremendous amount of focus however.


In regards to the second part of the question it is more like creating a computer program that takes "live code" while it is running. This ability speeds up the "debug" process considerably as one "sees" the effects of their tinkering in "real time". I don't think that you have any greater access to understanding than is already required to work at this level. In the same way one has "intuitive flashes or insights" in day to day life, the same context applies here but in a much more instantaneous fashion. In no way is this process "revelation" even if the results are somewhat revealing. *giggles*

3. Do you think it is possible to interact with other actual beings in your dreams? i.e., could you and another individual go to sleep, begin dreaming, meet and interact in a single dreamscape such that when both awoke, each would know what occurred in the dream? If yes, have you ever encountered another dream-person?
(the inter-subjective verification would answer a number of questions)
Yes and yes, and that presents the tip of the iceberg to this kind of endeavor. One neat side effect is that thoughts are shared as vibrant images rather than through complex verbal exchanges. That might sound odd, and people can certainly talk normally in the dreamscape but for the most part it is quite unnecessary. As far as bringing back the same data, participants may well find extremely similar accounts but one has to keep in mind that each participant will translate their dream aspects activities through their relative “waking” understanding. It is dependant on ones ability to focus awareness. If one’s focus is very high, they may well remember a great deal of nuances from their dream encounter. The implications of this are quite limitless as there are no practical boundaries to what can be done. You could call it constructive imagination in some respects or perhaps imaging constructs.

4. Are you able to modify your perspective? For example, could you "zoom out" as it were and view the entire galaxy in the palm of your hand or become as small as an electron? Can you do impossible things such as stop time?
The dreamer is limited only by their imagination and understanding.


5. What is the most important thing you have learned in your years of dreaming?
I cannot pinpoint a single thing except perhaps that dreams are not mental diarrhea as some would have us think.


1. What the individual thinks and believes about the dreamscape is precisely what they will experience.
2. Ordinary dreams are highly metaphorical in nature and are rarely what they seem. For example a figure of speech can be turned into perceived imagery.
3. Though personal “symbol libraries” contain similar elements, no two people have identical symbol libraries. Because of this getting “second opinions” about personal dreams can become problematic when taken too literally.
4. The endeavors themselves are often highly entertaining.

You have to understand that I am not implying “this is the way things are” and “this is how they must be” understood. I am simply giving my own perceptions of the nature of dreams and dreaming and I never presume I am right even when I have the gall to think I might be.

Next questions?
 

blackout

Violet.
Is your skin light blue, green, or purple?

Compelling.

Well I for one am purple.
UltraViolet to be specific.
(w/an occasional swirl of aqua).
Shall we all guess YmirGF's color?:rainbow1:

Or will that question show up in the next round do ya think?:sarcastic
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
and very good questions they are. I actually had to think about these ones for more than a nanosecond.


*wonders what this says about my previous questions...* :D



Next questions:

1. How you describe the process of simultaneously engaging in several different perspectives at the same time is how I imagine the Christian trinitarian God might describe his experience of being 3 individuals at the same time. Have you ever considered this, if yes what do you think about the possibility of being a god in utero?

2. What role does light play in all this and what is it's significance to you?


*I know this is only two questions but I want to veer off into a *lighter* topic for a bit and I think that while it is a simplistic question, the answer will be complex and I don't want to overload you.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
*wonders what this says about my previous questions...* :D
LOL. I didn't think of it that way until I read your response. *blushes* You should appreciate that describing a construct is one thing; describing the complex mechanics of that construct can be quite an undertaking.

Next questions:
:drool:

1. How you describe the process of simultaneously engaging in several different perspectives at the same time is how I imagine the Christian trinitarian God might describe his experience of being 3 individuals at the same time. Have you ever considered this, if yes what do you think about the possibility of being a god in utero?
I rather think that the Trinitarian view results from these latent, but long forgotten "memories" within all of us. For example, to me the Trinitarian aspect of Godhead is a perfectly reasonable "god" concept. It does make sense. I can only chuckle when I hear Muslim's ranting about how it does not make sense. You would think that they would understand that is doesn't make sense simply because of the inherent dogma of the Islamic perspective that does not allow for such a thing. It's not like they have "the answer" anyways, lol, but their perspectives are always highly entertaining.

And yes, it is rather difficult to hit this area of consciousness without being perfectly aware of the implications, lol, though that is admitting to a lot more than I am comfortable with. The concept of being a "god" in utero, as you put it, fits very well with my worldview. The thing is some of us have already grown up a tad beyond that stage and likewise I have adopted a term coined by Jane Roberts called "creaturehood" as that term does not have unnecessary religious connotations and also does not have any artificial limitations.

2. What role does light play in all this and what is it's significance to you?


*I know this is only two questions but I want to veer off into a *lighter* topic for a bit and I think that while it is a simplistic question, the answer will be complex and I don't want to overload you.
Almost all mystics as well as the plethora of man's religions all speak of a "light within" the individual. The reason for this is fairly simple, in that it is indeed a real attribute of consciousness/being. Consciousness is like a void "spot" at the centre of the observer, around which reality coalesces in a rather startlingly brilliant manner. Energy, which is ultimately what "you" are glows when it is "active" or conscious. As consciousness expands, it shines more brightly as it includes more within it's sphere of awareness.

I suppose one way to imagine my view of self is to imagine a VERY dense Globular Cluster, as shown below.

g1_m31_hst.gif


Now, keeping in mind this is a (minimum of) three dimensional image think of each dot of light being like the "aspect self" I was mentioning previously. As the aspect matures using your in utero example one could say that it accelerates towards the centre of the cluster. The difference with consciousness is that it does not "merge" exactly and lose its sense of individuality. In reality, it augments the existing core if you can follow my drift (pun intended, lol.) I hope that sheds some light on what I am meaning. :shrug:
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Know what you mean there for sure.
It is always comforting to be understood, CrisPy one. :D

"I'm grateful to anyone who is happy or "free"
for giving me hope, while I'm looking to see,
the light,
that has lighted,
the world."

-George Harrison
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Almost all mystics as well as the plethora of man's religions all speak of a "light within" the individual. The reason for this is fairly simple, in that it is indeed a real attribute of consciousness/being. Consciousness is like a void "spot" at the centre of the observer, around which reality coalesces in a rather startlingly brilliant manner. Energy, which is ultimately what "you" are glows when it is "active" or conscious. As consciousness expands, it shines more brightly as it includes more within it's sphere of awareness.

Brilliant, Paul . . . Simply brilliant.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Sorry I haven't been able to get back to this lately Ymir, I haven't forgotten. It may be a bit.
Not a problem, I have been sidetracked by "Super_Universe" in his errant thread anyway. Just PM me when you have dropped some more question as I am hardly tired of this yet. I wonder if you realize that your questions help me to crystalize my views?
 

Satsangi

Active Member
Interesting interview.... just few thoughts.... The use of "bleep" has been mentioned in the Scriptures to induce a mystic state; but is not at all recommended by the Scriptures.

I did not see the mention of "Buddha's joke" here......Did u go deeper onto the meditation beyond the "light years size being" (Lord Vishnu) ?

Regards,
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Interesting interview.... just few thoughts.... The use of "bleep" has been mentioned in the Scriptures to induce a mystic state; but is not at all recommended by the Scriptures.

I did not see the mention of "Buddha's joke" here......Did u go deeper onto the meditation beyond the "light years size being" (Lord Vishnu) ?

Regards,
I look for this a few days ago, but couldn't remember the name of the thread it was in.
This is the link. Have you met God?

The actual passage in my biography is a good deal longer and has been rewritten, for clarity, several times, since this posting. :D

Sadly, I have not written a full essay on "Buddha's little joke" but have alluded to it several times on RF. I may do so, at some future time, but it is a pretty low priority.
 
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Satsangi

Active Member
I look for this a few days ago, but couldn't remember the name of the thread it was in.
This is the link. Have you met God?

The actual passage in my biography is a good deal longer and has been rewritten, for clarity, several times, since this posting. :D

Sadly, I have not written a full essay on "Buddha's little joke" but have alluded to it several times on RF. I may do so, at some future time, but it is a pretty low priority.

I saw that you were viewing that thread and incidentally already read it before I read this post.

Regards,
 
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