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What is the most common mistake that atheists make?

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The most common mistake that atheists make is a category mistake. They mistakenly believe that polytheistic deities belong to the same ontological frame of reference as the monotheistic Deity. This category mistake is made in a variety of (inane) arguments that atheists commonly make. For instance, atheists often argue that atheism is simply believing in one less god than you do. But this is a category mistake. Polytheistic deities (if they do exist) are celestial beings that belong to the same ontological level that angels do; they do not belong to the same ontological level that the monotheistic Deity does.

No. The most common mistake made specifically by atheists is, IMO, encouraging theistic would-be debaters to perceive the matter of whether deities exist as something worth discussing. That serves only to motivate pointless debate with no purpose.

This category mistake you are describing is actually both inacurately described and somewhat more typical of theists than of atheists. It is theistic preachers, not atheists, who often feel the need to convince others of the merits and truth of their deities - thereby taking an attitude that would better fit particularly immature believers of lesser supernatural deities despite nominally being believers of a monotheistic deity of an entirely different level.

Atheists tend not to care one way or another. But they are very much in the wrong when they decide to answer such inane arguments "for the truth of monotheism" in such feeble, pointless terms. It is far better to just decline to lend credibility to what is unworthy of it.

Instead, to the extent that your distinction is both sensible and real (and this is really entirely arbitrary, since we are after all talking about mythology here) it shows the biggest mistake of monotheistic preaching: its very root claim is at odds with its goal. If there is only one "true", transcendental God, then it is pointless and self-contradictory to want to convince others of its existence. He will by necessity be an abstract principle and believing in his existence will be, itself, a mistake of category. Such entities are to be used, described, used for motivationala and inspirational purposes - but never to be misused in claims about whether they exist. They exist exactly to the extent that people want to make them real, no more and no less.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
The most common mistake that atheists make is a category mistake. They mistakenly believe that polytheistic deities belong to the same ontological frame of reference as the monotheistic Deity. This category mistake is made in a variety of (inane) arguments that atheists commonly make. For instance, atheists often argue that atheism is simply believing in one less god than you do. But this is a category mistake. Polytheistic deities (if they do exist) are celestial beings that belong to the same ontological level that angels do; they do not belong to the same ontological level that the monotheistic Deity does.
So, what is the ontological frame of reference of the monotheistic Deity? and how does it differ from the ontological frame of reference of polytheistic Deities? Because I fail to see any.

What I do see is that the category of multiple deities and the category of monotheistic deities are sub-categories of the category Deities. And atheists address this particular category, Deities, rather than either of the two sub-categories alone. And it must be said that the remark "Atheism is simply believing in one less god than you do" is nothing more than a witticism that addresses monotheists. No biggie.
 

Gambit

Well-Known Member
They believe their god interacts with reality not only that god is an abstract concept necessary for existence.

Anyone who denies that God (with an upper case "G") necessarily exists denies that God is the creator. Such an individual does not actually believe in God.
 

Gambit

Well-Known Member
okay, but you were making broad statements about the nature of polytheistic gods that are not reflective of what many polytheists actually hold for some or all of their deities.

I don't think so. What polytheistic god or goddess cannot be classified as some type of celestial being?
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Anyone who denies that God (with an upper case "G") necessarily exists denies that God is the creator. Such an individual does not actually believe in God.
Why would God have to be "the creator"? I am assuming you mean physically creating not spiritually. For one can believe in a spiritual God, yet not believe in one necessary for existence on a physical level.
 

Gambit

Well-Known Member
It's like classifying fairies and whether a person believes in just one or many or in a single fairy that's different from the single fairy believed by others.

I don't believe in any fairies nor a Fairy nor the fairy that another group considers "The Fairy" or the Fairy of their rivals considered as a fairy by those who believe in their own Fairy.

Your post is making my point. You're actually attempting to compare a finite being to infinite being itself.
 

Gambit

Well-Known Member
This isn't an argument for atheism at all, nor is it erroneous.
It's a joke about finding some common ground with monotheistic believers.
It refers to multiple gods types of religions, which we both reject.

The joke is funny only because it reveals how theologically ignorant atheists are.
 

Gambit

Well-Known Member
How fascinating! By the way, these "celestial beings", how do they have a scientifically ascertainable impact on nature -- unlike the lack of any impact of the monotheistic deity? Or is it the case that neither the gods of the polytheists, nor the gods of the monotheists, have any scientifically discernible influence on nature?

That you require God's existence to be scientifically validated shows a profound ignorance on your part not only of theology, but also of science.

Also, what is the evidence/reasoning for the claim that there exist celestial beings, and in what what way(s) is it any different in essence from the evidence/reasoning for the claim that there exists a monotheistic god?

The principle of parsimony requires that we need only posit one necessary being to explain why there is something rather than nothing. IOW, polytheistic deities are not metaphysically necessary.
 

Gambit

Well-Known Member
No. The most common mistake made specifically by atheists is, IMO, encouraging theistic would-be debaters to perceive the matter of whether deities exist as something worth discussing. That serves only to motivate pointless debate with no purpose.

That you have chosen not only to participate in this thread but also to identify your religion as anti-theism belies the argument you are attempting to make in your post above.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
So, what is the ontological frame of reference of the monotheistic Deity? and how does it differ from the ontological frame of reference of polytheistic Deities? Because I fail to see any.
Polytheistic deities evolved from what were essentially celestial elementals. Powerful entities that controlled various aspects of nature and human life. You appeased the rain god for rain, the solar god moved the sun, another transported your soul to the underworld and so on. They are the apparent agency of nature. Monotheism rejects the existence of such beings. Monotheism posits a transcendent source for existence; an unmoved mover that is not to be identified with the any part of the creation. The unmoved mover of monotheism is an entirely different concept to the idea of a purely immanent 'god' who moves the sun around by chariot. No monotheist believes such beings exist which is why the "one less god than you" argument doesn't really address the real claim of monotheism.
 
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Parsimony

Well-Known Member
All of them.

Remember the two truths of atheism:

1) There is no God, and

2) I Hate Him.
Hating God is not a "truth of atheism". Atheism entails nothing more than a disbelief in God's existence (i.e. it doesn't entail any general attitude about God). There are probably plenty of atheists who don't care enough about God to hate Him.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I always think it's funny when theists posit these "conversion bait" questions, but I'll ask different questions:

1) Why is it imperative that others believe in your god besides you?

2) Why do you believe in that god in preference to others?

3) What will happen if you stop playing with this god and go to another?

Ok, so over these questions...

#1 never makes sense to me.... It's almost unfair to expect others to see your imaginary friends as equal to or better than their own (or lack thereof)... We're talking about imaginary friends and we always assume our friends are _the best_ or we decide if they don't exist everyone else is wrong.

#2 Most gods have a fatal flaw, and any lack of acknowledging that proves your brainwashing. Can you take the attributes of your god and see where other gods would be preferential? Can you see where your god could maybe be a terrible pain in the neck to others and they just refuse to consider it at all?

#3 Do you have a choice or are you brainwashed? Will you receive physical harm, rejection from family members or worse, or even are simply afraid of this imaginary friends rage? Are these good reasons to be associated with them?

These are questions all the faithers run away from because successful brainwashing evokes ones flee circuit once it considers these things. Btw, I think our ability to create any subjective reality we like is the best part of life. Why subject oneself to fear? Why limit oneself to two-thousand year old reality tunnels?

These are the questions that none of these folks will answer and these are the reasons atheists give them hell.
 

Gambit

Well-Known Member
So, what is the ontological frame of reference of the monotheistic Deity? and how does it differ from the ontological frame of reference of polytheistic Deities? Because I fail to see any.

What you're failing to see is the difference between finite beings and infinite being itself.

And it must be said that the remark "Atheism is simply believing in one less god than you do" is nothing more than a witticism that addresses monotheists. No biggie.

Atheists who make such 'witticisms' are only revealing their own ignorance.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
The most common mistake that atheists make is a category mistake. They mistakenly believe that polytheistic deities belong to the same ontological frame of reference as the monotheistic Deity

That is because the monotheistic deity concept you know evolved from multiple deity concepts over hundreds of years.

And you are just as guilty as an atheist at this because you are also factually categorizing your deity of choice.

How do you know god is not a family of deities?

How do you know god is not father and son?


What source are using to define your god?, you did not imagine your god concept so your belief in a god, came from somewhere, where is this ?????????
 
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