what is the origin of sin/evil?

[tomasortega]

what is the origin of sin/evil? who is to blame for the existence of sin?if god is omnibenevolent, and his creation is perfect in his image, and there is no sin in heaven, then how could lucifer(god's creation) sin against god in heaven? it is said that lucifer felt pride and/or jealousy, both of which are considered sins. so how could sin be part of lucifer's nature if god created him in the absence of sin?

 

[Poisonshady313]

I am the One Who forms light and creates darkness; Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Maker of all these.

Isaiah 45:7

Seems pretty clear.

You can spend pages nit picking about what omnibenevolence means... but there's you're answer.

 

[rusra02]

what is the origin of sin/evil? who is to blame for the existence of sin?if god is omnibenevolent, and his creation is perfect in his image, and there is no sin in heaven, then how could lucifer(god's creation) sin against god in heaven? it is said that lucifer felt pride and/or jealousy, both of which are considered sins. so how could sin be part of lucifer's nature if god created him in the absence of sin?

The Bible tells us how formerly righteous persons can turn bad, and shows that God is not responsible for wickedness. James 1:13-15: "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death."
It is not sinful to see the possibility in a situation. You stumble across a wallet full of money. The possibility exists that you keep the money. But realizing that you would become a thief by doing so, you reject that course and choose to turn the money in.
OR you allow the desire for the money to grow until you do become a thief and steal the money. Satan could see the possibility of his being worshipped by men. Instead of dismissing the thought, he allowed the desire to grow. Thus he sinned. Same thing with Eve. She desired the outcome Satan promised her for eating the fruit God had forbidden her. Desire turned to sin when she took the fruit and ate it.

 

[idea]

I am the One Who forms light and creates darkness; Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Maker of all these.

Isaiah 45:7

Seems pretty clear.

You can spend pages nit picking about what omnibenevolence means... but there's you're answer.

from:

Did God create out of nothing - by Jamie Turner - Helium

" The Hebrew word “bara” which has been translated into the English languages as “create” actually means to shape or transform. Consider Isaiah 45:7 in which “bara” has been incorrectly translated in the King James Bible as “create”.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The Lord does not “create” evil and darkness; for we know that “God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.” – 1 John 1:5. God “transforms” evil and darkness into light and peace. Here is the same verse in which “bara” is translated correctly.

Isaiah 45:7 I transform darkness into light, I make peace, and transform evil, I the Lord do all these things.

God is a being who is able to transform that which eternally exists. He is not the hypocritical author of an imperfect creation. God is selflessly cleaning up a mess He did not make. It is “the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.” – Rom 8:15. Adoption is the process in which someone takes responsibility for a child they did not create. "

 

[BruceDLimber]

We are to blame for sin.

As to evil, I quote from the Baha'i scriptures:

Chapter 74.

THE NONEXISTENCE OF EVIL

“The true explanation of this subject is very difficult. Know that beings are of two kinds: material and spiritual, those perceptible to the senses and those intellectual.
“Things which are sensible are those which are perceived by the five exterior senses; thus those outward existences which the eyes see are called sensible. Intellectual things are those which have no outward existence but are conceptions of the mind. For example, mind itself is an intellectual thing which has no outward existence. All man's characteristics and qualities form an intellectual existence and are not sensible.
“Briefly, the intellectual realities, such as all the qualities and admirable perfections of man, are purely good, and exist. Evil is simply their nonexistence. So ignorance is the want of knowledge; error is the want of guidance; forgetfulness is the want of memory; stupidity is the want of good sense. All these things have no real existence.
“In the same way, the sensible realities are absolutely good, and evil is due to their nonexistence—that is to say, blindness is the want of sight, deafness is the want of hearing, poverty is the want of wealth, illness is the want of health, death is the want of life, and weakness is the want of strength.
“Nevertheless a doubt occurs to the mind—that is, scorpions and serpents are poisonous. Are they good or evil, for they are existing beings? Yes, a scorpion is evil in relation to man; a serpent is evil in relation to man; but in relation to themselves they are not evil, for their poison is their weapon, and by their sting they defend themselves. But as the elements of their poison do not agree with our elements—that is to say, as there is antagonism between these different elements, therefore, this antagonism is evil; but in reality as regards themselves they are good.
“The epitome of this discourse is that it is possible that one thing in relation to another may be evil, and at the same time within the limits of its proper being it may not be evil. Then it is proved that there is no evil in existence; all that God created He created good. This evil is nothingness; so death is the absence of life. When man no longer receives life, he dies. Darkness is the absence of light: when there is no light, there is darkness. Light is an existing thing, but darkness is nonexistent. Wealth is an existing thing, but poverty is nonexisting.
“Then it is evident that all evils return to nonexistence. Good exists; evil is nonexistent.”
— 'Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, pp. 282-284

Peace,

Bruce

 

[LuisDantas]

what is the origin of sin/evil?

Evil is a concept born out of instincts of displeasure at certain external events, and strongly related to xenophoby and chauvinism.

It eventually evolved somewhat and is now useful if understood as the result of unwise, ignorant action. In a nutshell, evil is what happens when people fail to be wise.

Sin is a purely Abrahamic concept as far as I can tell. It seems to be defined as the supposed freely chosen action that goes against God's will. I'm not sure it is a constructive concept.

who is to blame for the existence of sin?if god is omnibenevolent, and his creation is perfect in his image, and there is no sin in heaven, then how could lucifer(god's creation) sin against god in heaven? it is said that lucifer felt pride and/or jealousy, both of which are considered sins. so how could sin be part of lucifer's nature if god created him in the absence of sin?

The best answer I have seen to that question is along the lines that God desires mankind to learn to be spiritually capable, and therefore it must have the capability of making the wrong choices.

 

[Druswid]

Personally, I'm not sure that everything people say is a sin is necessarily a sin. Some people really like moralizing, and saying everything they don't like is a sin. I'm not even sure I agree with the whole concept of sin, and the idea that if you sin, you get negative marks for the afterlife. Of course, I do believe that there are sick individuals who commit evil, degenerate acts, or lesser, but nonetheless greedy acts, and I feel that those things can be brought about by multiple things, such as psychological issues, poor self esteem, no moral compunctions, etc. I do not believe that any type of grand evil deity is responsible for evil. Evil and criminal acts are the work of humans and humans alone.

 

[ChristineES]

It is the flesh. We give into the desires of our bodies. Overeating, drinking too much, addiction of any other kind, etc, is what "evil" is.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

There is originally no such thing as sin, but when people deviate from the way of Ma'at/dharma/Tao the natural order of things, and harm one another, then people call that sin, a human construct meaning to miss the mark.

 

[Tiapan]

I am the One Who forms light and creates darkness; Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Maker of all these.

Isaiah 45:7

Seems pretty clear.

You can spend pages nit picking about what omnibenevolence means... but there's you're answer.

Pretty hard to create darkness if you dont have light

Cheers

 

[tomasortega]

I am the One Who forms light and creates darkness; Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Maker of all these.

Isaiah 45:7

Seems pretty clear.

You can spend pages nit picking about what omnibenevolence means... but there's you're answer.

so you are saying that god created/is responsible for sin/evil. in which case abrahamic religions fail because god is at fault in the first place so his creation can not be blamed in any way anymore than humans with birth defects can be blamed for those shortcomings.

 

[Eliot Wild]

what is the origin of sin/evil? who is to blame for the existence of sin?

Uhhh, sorry everyone, uh, that would be me. I did it. It's my fault. A lot of people think it was Lucifer dressed up like a snake trying to tempt Eve, but uhhhhhh, Satan was actually just doing what God told him.

While all this was going on and God was watching intently to see what Eve would do, I snuck up behind God and gave him a wedgy. I don't know why, I just thought it 'd be funny. The Big Guy didn't find it so comical though and hence sin entered the world, Hell was created for those unwilling to repent and Jesus had to do his thing.

So, I hate it for everyone . . . but really, if you want to know the truth, after having seen the look on God's face when he was pulling at his backside . . . It was actually worth it. HA!!!

 

[tomasortega]

The Bible tells us how formerly righteous persons can turn bad, and shows that God is not responsible for wickedness. James 1:13-15: "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death."
It is not sinful to see the possibility in a situation. You stumble across a wallet full of money. The possibility exists that you keep the money. But realizing that you would become a thief by doing so, you reject that course and choose to turn the money in.
OR you allow the desire for the money to grow until you do become a thief and steal the money. Satan could see the possibility of his being worshipped by men. Instead of dismissing the thought, he allowed the desire to grow. Thus he sinned. Same thing with Eve. She desired the outcome Satan promised her for eating the fruit God had forbidden her. Desire turned to sin when she took the fruit and ate it.

interesting. in other words you are saying that the desire for sin is not sin, and that as long as you dont give in to the desire to sin, you do not sin....

logically then, the desire to commit adultery with a beautiful woman is not a sin, it only becomes(or as james says "gives birth to") sin when you give in to the desire and commit actual physical adultery with the woman....

problem is, jesus disagrees with you and james on this one... this is what jesus says according to matthew 5. 27, 28

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart

now, from a religious perspective, the desire to sin in humans makes sense, because humans are born in sin, however this would not make sense for lucifer, created in the absence of sin.....so my initial question stands.

 

[RomCat]

I believe we have only ourselves to blame
for sin existing in the world for we are all
sinners.
Now why do we sin? That is a question you
can only answer for yourself.

 

[LuisDantas]

Out of curiosity, RomCat: what percentage of people do you guess see themselves as sinners? All people, not only Christians?

 

[McBell]

what is the origin of sin/evil?

Depends entirely upon your beliefs.
For those who believe that there was absolutely nothing then God poofed everything into existence, God is the source of sin/evil.

For those who believe that their particular deities rules apply to the whole world, God created evil/sin.

The list goes on and on and on and on.....

 

[Poisonshady313]

so you are saying that god created/is responsible for sin/evil. in which case abrahamic religions fail because god is at fault in the first place so his creation can not be blamed in any way anymore than humans with birth defects can be blamed for those shortcomings.

The goal in Judaism is to overcome the obstacles that are put in our way. To learn, to grow, to make the world a better place.

God knows we're not perfect, and does not demand perfection.


God is no more at fault for creating us than parents are at fault for having children. And when you tell the children not to touch the stove, and they don't listen to you, they hurt their hand. Next time, they won't touch the stove.

It's up to us to choose paths which will enable us to enjoy life without hurting ourselves or each other.

Otherwise, we'd all be angels... no free will, no capacity to grow. I think life is more meaningful when we have some control over how we live our lives, for better or for worse.

 

[Druswid]

Yeah, I've got a problem with that whole "looking with desire is sin" thing. That idea right there is thought crime before thought crime was invented, or at least before it was called thought crime. And thoughts are just that; thoughts. Until a thought becomes an action, it is nothing. Why condemn someone for a thought? What kind of rigid thinking is that? I mean, seriously, if we didn't look at an attractive women or man with some kind of attraction, we'd all be zombies, or the human race wouldn't even be here. How else did the species get propagated? There is some stuff in the Bible, even if supposedly said by Jesus, which I cannot agree with.

 

[Beaudreaux]

The Bible tells us how formerly righteous persons can turn bad, and shows that God is not responsible for wickedness.

Exactly. God had no idea people would turn bad so how can it be his fault for creating them the way he did?

 

[Beaudreaux]

The Bible tells us how formerly righteous persons can turn bad, and shows that God is not responsible for wickedness.

Exactly. God had no idea people would turn bad so how can it be his fault for creating them the way he did?