What is the Point of Judaism?

[gsa]

I'll settle for your backtrack.

You're not getting that. Child brides. Misogyny. More misogyny. Homophobic terrorism. Rejection of evolutionary theory. Racism.

As with enablers of another Abrahamic religion on the left, there is a certain tendency among some philo-Semites to idealize Jewishness as the source of everything wonderful, with nothing at all worthy of criticism. This cannot survive serious scrutiny. Thankfully, there are plenty of wonderful Jewish sources to cite on these matters because they also don't fall for it.

 

[Tumah]

You're not getting that.

Your initial statement was
There are certain approaches to Judaism that are far less liberal or accommodating of modernity than what you typically see in the US, though.
This is stating that as a matter of theology certain sects of Judaism take an approach that allows for child brides, misogynists, etc.
Your second response was
not agreeing that a religion does not contain perfect angels does not = defamation
Which kind of sounds like you're saying that there are individuals within Judaism who do bad things.

I am not an expert on these things, but my understanding is that this would be considered a backpedal.

Child brides

In this article, the very first cases says the Rabbis were against it.
And in the case of the Rabbi who did it, he is persona non grata by all the other Rabbis.

Misogyny

This is not mysogny. The men have to be dressed modestly too.

More misogyny

This is misinterpretation of the motivation for men and women not sitting together. It is not mysogyny

Homophobic terrorism

One guy.

Rejection of evolutionary theory

One theory.

Racism

I'm not even going to bother with this one.

So I guess the question is, which of your two posts are you taking as your official position. The one where you libel some nebulous sect's theology or the one where you say that Jews are people too?

As with enablers of another Abrahamic religion on the left, there is a certain tendency among some philo-Semites to idealize Jewishness as the source of everything wonderful, with nothing at all worthy of criticism. This cannot survive serious scrutiny. Thankfully, there are plenty of wonderful Jewish sources to cite on these matters because they also don't fall for it.

I kind of just think that since we reject your lifestyle, you feel you need to reject ours.

 

[gsa]

I kind of just think that since we reject your lifestyle, you feel you need to reject ours.

An assumption that presumably distorts your reading of what I write about fringe elements within your religion that excuse their fringe nature by appealing to religious tradition, as does virtually every fundamentalist.

Note: I did not bring up my "lifestyle," you did. I am not sure what lifestyle you are talking about, or why it would require rejecting your own. I reject your religious beliefs because I think that they are false and harmful, not out of any resentment. I respect your right to believe those things and act on those beliefs, subject to generally applicable laws. That doesn't mean I am giving up the ability to criticize what I consider harmful side effects.

 

[Tumah]

An assumption that presumably distorts your reading of what I write about fringe elements within your religion that excuse their fringe nature by appealing to religious tradition, as does virtually every fundamentalist.

Are lone gunmen also considered "fringe elements", or are you back to referring to sects now. You keep switching back and forth, so I'm sure you can understand why I'm having some trouble here.
There is no such thing as "appealing to religious tradition" in Orthodox Judaism.
We all use the same books of Codified Law. One is either following them, or not.
There is no sect in Orthodox Judaism that disagrees with the above statement.

Note: I did not bring up my "lifestyle," you did. I am not sure what lifestyle you are talking about, or why it would require rejecting your own. I reject your religious beliefs because I think that they are false and harmful, not out of any resentment. I respect your right to believe those things and act on those beliefs, subject to generally applicable laws. That doesn't mean I am giving up the ability to criticize what I consider harmful side effects.

When you make comments about swathes of Orthodox Jews, you are speaking about a (their) lifestyle. But as proof, you could only bring individual or mistaken examples supporting your claim. The lack of adequate material for your claims makes it look like you're trying to find an excuse to libel a lifestyle. If you were to say, "there are Orthodox Jews who do bad things," I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But with the exception of the Pure Heart and Neturei Karta sects, I don't think there are any sects that could as a whole be labeled in such a way.

Either way, even though I don't disagree with my original comment on that. I regret making it, as this was neither the appropriate venue, nor relevant to the topic.

 

[gsa]

Are lone gunmen also considered "fringe elements", or are you back to referring to sects now. You keep switching back and forth, so I'm sure you can understand why I'm having some trouble here.
There is no such thing as "appealing to religious tradition" in Orthodox Judaism.
We all use the same books of Codified Law. One is either following them, or not.
There is no sect in Orthodox Judaism that disagrees with the above statement.


When you make comments about swathes of Orthodox Jews, you are speaking about a (their) lifestyle. But as proof, you could only bring individual or mistaken examples supporting your claim. The lack of adequate material for your claims makes it look like you're trying to find an excuse to libel a lifestyle. If you were to say, "there are Orthodox Jews who do bad things," I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But with the exception of the Pure Heart and Neturei Karta sects, I don't think there are any sects that could as a whole be labeled in such a way.

Either way, even though I don't disagree with my original comment on that. I regret making it, as this was neither the appropriate venue, nor relevant to the topic.

This would probably have gone a lot smoother if you had not assumed I made a reference to sects. Indeed, in your initial comment, you seemed to be aware of that, because you responded by saying:

As an ultra-Orthodox Jew, I don't know a single Jew (ultra-Orthodox or otherwise) who rejects science (outside of a small number of topics), mistreats their women or consider them less, marry their prepubescent girls to old guys or behead their children.

I regret your comment as well.