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What is the punishment for converting from Islam?

Godwilling

Organic, kinetic learner
Leaving most Christian religions is fairly easy at present. There are some exceptions like the case of the Davidians in Wako, Texas, some Mormon sects and some other sects where power and control extend to breaking US law.

Long gone are the days of the Inquisition where people would be put to death for "not believing" in a prescribed manner.

I would like Muslims to educate me on the consequences of converting from Islam to another religion or to atheism and your views in the matter.

Thank you!
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I've read the King Fahd edition holy Quran cover to cover and there is only one short passage on this subject, about 1/3 of the way into it. As I recall it, If a person renounces Islam they are to be driven from the community and told not to come back, if they choose to not leave or return to proselytize they are to be put to death. Pretty harsh, but hardly enforced in most muslim countries today, even in Iran you don't get put to death for losing faith in Islam and not going to the mosque. Pakistan, maybe......(although the number of people actually put to death for Blasphemy is very small for the population).

I must admit this one passage seems to be about the worst thing in Islam, but if you were to search the entire old Testament of the Bible, my guess is you would find similarly offensive passages, which Christians no longer practice, like a women being required to marry a man if he rapes her, In Leviticus I think.
 
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Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
As you have stated about Christianity is that it has changed over time. What a religion "is" has very little to do with the actual text but the zeitgeist of the time and place in which that religion is followed. For religions do not exist outside of their followers. It is what makes it so difficult to pin "blame" on any religious group as the no-true Scotsman rule is so easily implemented. And in reality it is truthfully implemented because any single group of religious individuals would be like a completely separate being (albeit similar at times) to any other religious group.

So the actual sentence for leaving Islam varies from group to group.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Islam was changing and modernising by leaps and bounds and all over the Islamic world strong leaders, some almost dictators decided to force the people to give up archaic koranic laws, giving more right to minorities and women, and stop nutty religious Imams from running the country, The Great America, or Satan as many muslims call him, decided that democracy was more important than progress, so they funded and supported and armed radical islamic groups to overthrow the liberal non democratic leaders and replace them with what the people wanted, turns out the Imams were much more powerful than America stupidly imagined, and next thing the governments are going backwards in time to a society much more influenced by archaic koranic laws.
 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
There is no earthly punishment mentioned in the quran for the peaceful apostate. No compulsion in religion!
The kind of apostasy that is punishable by death is when apostate wages war against Allah and his Messenger by speech or deeds.
Such apostate must be executed to relieve the islamic state and the believers from his/her evil.
However the apostate that minds his/her own business and does not wage any kind of war against Allah and his messenger, that kind of apostate should be left alone, but still he should be advised and told that this decision will put him amongst the losers in the hereafter. Disbelief in Allah after belief is the greatest unthankfulness.


Allah says:
Those who believe, then reject faith(apostasy) then believe (again) and (again) reject faith(Apostasy), and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way.


Say: The truth is from your Lord. So whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve.

Surah Al-Kahf 18:29

- See more at: Freedom of Religion and Apostasy in Islam | Faith in Allah الإيمان بالله


Jabir reported: A bedouin came to the Prophet and gave the pledge of allegiance for embracing Islam. The next day he came with a fever and he said, “Please cancel my pledge.” The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, refused three times and he said:

الْمَدِينَةُ كَالْكِيرِ تَنْفِي خَبَثَهَا، وَيَنْصَعُ طَيِّبُهَا

Medina is like a furnace. It expels its impurities and collects what is pure.

Source: Sahih Bukhari 1784, Grade: Sahih



- See more at: Freedom of Religion and Apostasy in Islam | Faith in Allah الإيمان بالله


رَجُلٌ يَخْرُجُ مِنَ الإِسْلاَمِ يُحَارِبُ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ وَرَسُولَهُ

A man who rejects Islam and wages war against Allah the Exalted and His Messenger.

Source: Sunan An-Nasa’i 4048



- See more at: Freedom of Religion and Apostasy in Islam | Faith in Allah الإيمان بالله


فَمَنْ قَتَلَ وَأَفْسَدَ فِي الأَرْضِ وَحَارَبَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ثُمَّ لَحِقَ بِالْكُفَّارِ قَبْلَ أَنْ يُقْدَرَ عَلَيْهِ لَمْ يَمْنَعْهُ ذَلِكَ أَنْ يُقَامَ فِيهِ الْحَدُّ الَّذِي أَصَابَ

Whoever kills others, spreads corruption in the land, wages war against Allah and His Messenger, and joins the unbelievers before he is subdued, then there is nothing to prevent the legal punishment from being applied to him because of what he did.

Source: Sunan An-Nasa’i 4046, Grade: Sahih

- See more at: Freedom of Religion and Apostasy in Islam | Faith in Allah الإيمان بالله
 
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Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
My analysis is that it was a punishable with death sin then the Quran superseded it with no compulsion in religion in a context and that to each their own religion in another context.

What the Quran says about the punishments for Muslims leaving Islam is always connected to that which happens with waging war against Islam and Muslims and threaten their peace for being Muslims.

That's my analysis and what I follow.

It is however unfortunate and sad that some Muslims countries misuse Islam and execute converts :(
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
It would be very similar or identical to the way Atheists wage war against believers on facebook! heavy on the slander, I would think.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Through much of the history of Christianity blasphemy was a crime punishable by death, why does everyone have this double standard what's OK if its done by Christians, is some horrible crime when Muslims do it, I think its outdated and horrible, but most muslim countries didn't advance technologically in the 20th century as fast as the big western powers, I don't think life in 100 year ago America was any better or less just than life in present day Indonesia, for example, Islamic countries are rapidly liberalising from how conservative they were 100 years ago, you can't force 1 billion muslims to be as liberal as 21st century Americans or Europeans, going to war or supporting war in every country that doesn't embrace capitalism in the name of democracy is a one way ticket to disaster. More innocent black men are killed by cops in America, than Pakistani citizens are put to death for Blasphemy. Every country has its good and bad points, but judging them all by how they live up to American laws and values is sheer nonsense, because America today is a disaster.
 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
What constitutes waging war against Islam by "speech"?
For example Ayaan Hersi Ali. She is waging war against Allah and His messenger by speech. That is punishable by death. Because her evilness can be defeated through execution.

maybe they mean this

Also that is good example of the kind apostasy that is punishable by death. It is treason added with open war, so she is infact soldier of the devil.
The peaceful apostate should not be punished, only advised.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Now you've lost us, you're on a public internet forum, for all world religions, calling for the death and execution of an Egyptian women because she now hates Islam and spreads lies about it, this is exactly the kind of nonsense that gives Islam a bad name. If you were to say in so and so Islamic country she would be put to death for talking like that, that would be one thing, but you didn't, it sounds like you're calling for her execution, for the insane reason that 1400 years ago in Saudi Arabia, this was how they dealt with things, this is not 1400 years ago, this is today.

And actually by the actual direction in the holy Koran, she has fled from the body of believers, and obviously is not returning to an Islamic ruled country, the Koran gives no direction to chase apostates to foreign countries and kill them, perhaps you live in an Islamic country, I don't know, but if you were living in America, your post could be construed as a terrorist threat and you could be arrested and face trial by a jury that wouldn't give you the time of day.

Up and till this your posts have been very on topic and appropriate, to present an Islamic perspective on Aisha's marriage, more power to that, but extremism is ugly in any language in any country, If Muslims are going to be able to avoid a worldwide war against Islam by the Fascist Western Military forces, they can't be promoting this kind of behaviour on the Internet. Peace, and reduction of threats, and violence is the only way, the situation worldwide is rapidly going from worse to worse, and you should even have the right to enforce Sharia law in your own country, BUT NOT OUTSIDE YOUR BORDERS, and this forum, my friend is outside your borders.
 
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Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
Now you've lost us, you're on a public internet forum, for all world religions, calling for the death and execution of an Egyptian women because she now hates Islam and spreads lies about it, this is exactly the kind of nonsense that gives Islam a bad name. If you were to say in so and so Islamic country she would be put to death for talking like that, that would be one thing, but you didn't, it sounds like you're calling for her execution, for the insane reason that 1400 years ago in Saudi Arabia, this was how they dealt with things, this is not 1400 years ago, this is today.


NO! You didnt understand me. I said if that woman lived in islamc state, she would deserve execution. Iam not saying send assassins behind her.
 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
What does she say deserving of a death sentence?
Did you watch Fitna?
That was blasphemous film.

Anyways, iam speaking about ayaan and the egyptian woman living in islamic state. They wouldnt survive a single day with their hateful war against islam.

I gave you the punishment for armed(in words & deeds) apostasy
 
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