Oh. That makes sense, and explains why I wouldn't notice. Sorry if this sounds weird, but it is the truth nonetheless.
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What is the Role of the Outsider in Bringing about Changes in Religions?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Oh. That makes sense, and explains why I wouldn't notice. Sorry if this sounds weird, but it is the truth nonetheless.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
No problem at all Luis.
'Outsiders' have been attacking and trying to destroy my religion for centuries. It's obvious who they are, and one of the reasons we don't generally do what they do is because it puts us at that level. They can say all the #$@% they want and we somehow still endure.
Fair enough... but really, "agressor" is a better word for that.
Usually a negative role. Outsiders generally have little clue about the culture or personal beliefs of other to be able to influence it in a positive way.
Simple, you don't acknowledge their beliefs. You deal with the actions they are responsible for. You don't accept their beliefs as an excuse for their behavior. Either they will get the message that they can't use their beliefs as an excuse or they won't. If they don't, you continue to deal with them the same as you would anyone that commits violent acts. You should not discriminate in your treatment of them because of their religious beliefs.
Again, you deal with the action, threat as you would the same for any other person on the earth, regardless of religious belief.
ISIS is within the bounds of the teachings of the Quran as well as the sunnah. Wahabis are Sunni Muslims. The Saudis just happen to be a bit more orthodox then their heterodox "hypocrite" counterparts. Those heterodox Muslims that don't join The Islamic State in imperialistic conquest and subjugation of the vanquished, or wish in their hearts that they were, are "hypocrites". What you see being perpetrated by The Islamic State, is in the mold of the "messenger" that they follow:
BANU QURAYZA MASSACRE
And the commands that he gave them.
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Bukhari B78 #627 Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet said, "O followers of Muhammad!....."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](URL) Qur'an 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Quran Surah 8:12I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Quran Surah 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
(URL) Quran Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth![/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](URL) "Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari" - Maktba Dar-us-Salam's page 580[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Chapter 2. The best among the people is that believer who strives his utmost in Allah's Cause with both his life and property.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]footnotes:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][1] "Al-Jihad (the holy fighting) in Allah's Cause (with full force of number and weaponry) is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars (on which it stands). By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior, [His Word being La ilaha ill-Allah (which means: none has the right to be worshipped but Allah)] and His Religion (Islam) is propagated. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and the Muslims fall into an inferior position; there honour is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim, and he who tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart wish to fulfill this duty, dies with one of the qualities of a hypocrite.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][2]Of course, nobody can offer Salat (prayer) and observe Saum (fast) incessantly, and since the Muslim fighter is rewarded as if he was doing such good impossible deeds, no possible deed equals Jihad in reward.[/FONT]
People like you make the rest of us Christians look bad. I was Muslim for two years. Wahhabis are not following the rules. There are four schoools of thought in Sunni Islam, they are called madhabs. Wahhabis follow none of them. As for what you are quoting you have to understand how to read the Qur'an before you comment on it. The words of the Qur'an are based on the time frame in which they were revealed.
As for jihad. Yes Muslims believe in jihad. But you, like Robert Spencer & others, dont seem to understand how jihad works. There are different kinds of jihad & then the kind to which you refer has exceptions and rules. Firstly jihad is defensive not offensive. Secondly during jihad itis FORBIDDEN to kill non-combatants (religious teachers, women, children, & anyone not actively fighting against Islam)
P.S.
If the translation your reading has things in parenthesis it was probably written by a wahhabi. (Just something to think about)
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And the radical Islamists that most likely this thread is actually about view America as the aggressor. Not saying I agree with them.
Terms are just terms.
It's just because my lazy mind understands it, and I don't want to look up Wahhabi.The Wahhabi ideology is the cause behind ISIS, AL QAEDA, TALIBAN. All of it. The cure is to redirect Wahhabi teachings for the 4 madhabs. While I might not agree with Islam (presently, never know what the future holds) I do believe that proper Islam is the only solution to the current problem in the Middle East
Religion are just like a company's line of products, adapt or die. If your religion cannot remold itself to fit into modern society, it will die or live on as a small sect on the fringe with few adherents. The real tragedy thou is if such a sect dominate the leadership of an authoritarian state. I have no problem with Islam in general and most of its followers are adapted to the modern world but the extremist sect that runs Saudi Arabia have caused a lot of trouble for Muslims and non Muslims alike, just as Christianity have been given a bad name by extremist rightwing "Christians" in the US.
outhouse
Atheistically
O I will agree with this.
I know that Wahabism is disliked and mistrusted by many Muslims, but it is not clear to me why, nor how widespread it currently is, nor how it relates to other subdivisions of Islam, nor how different it is from other forms of Islam.
Would you happen to have a good source for me to learn? I'm a bit skeptical about how different it can be, personally, but I guess I have to learn.
I'm an introvert, as well. As with most things, the need to be social is on a scale. Nothing freaky about preferring solitude.
But I can say that if I go a few days without any sort of social interaction, I go a bit nuts.
I am fairly well adjusted to solitude, at least as long as I have access to the Internet and some groceries.
In many ways that is a problem, although it has developed as something of a defense.
In many ways that is a problem, although it has developed as something of a defense.
Understanding Islam - Free Online Islamic Course - Study and Learn Islam Online
Unification of Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wahhabi movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Let me know if you want more I can talk to some of my Muslim friends