What is the role of the Spirit of God (The Holy Spirit) in Trinitarianism?

[syo]

I don’t speak of them. I speak only of the one true almighty God of the Jews,

He is part of the pantheon.

 

[101G]

Ummm…. Which part of what I said makes you think I’m saying that Jesus is equal with God?

Ummm you don't have to say the bible do, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Isn’t it you who is saying that Jesus IS GOD?
And that Jesus is the Father?
And Jesus is the Spirit of God?

yes, yes, and yes, in the ECHAD as the ordinal First and Ordinal Last

And isn’t it trinity that says that Jesus is both God and equal with God?

I can careless what the Trinity say, I'm only intresred in what God says.

101G.
.

 

[Soapy]

Yes, Jesus is our counselor. The word is also our counselor. It also depends on what you understand "counselor" to mean.

Parakletos​

par-ak'-lay-tos
Noun Masculine

1. summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
   1. one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
   2. one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
      1. of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
   3. in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
      1. of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom

He took the place of Christ.

There is a big difference. We were born from a man and a woman. Jesus was not.

ADAM was born from NEITHER a human mother nor a human Father.

 

[Soapy]

He is part of the pantheon.

No no! The one true God is ONE (and ONLY) God that the Israelites and Jews and true Christians profess to worship.

Perhaps you are thinking about Christian Apologetics, ‘TRINITARIANS’, who believe in THREE Gods but claim the three are one God.

I do not subscribe to that alien God.

Then there are those who believe in a One God but who think that one God takes the form of THREE PERSONS at different (and even THE SAME time … in the same place!).

I doing subscribe to that God either.

My God is simple enough to explain in regard to ‘number of’. He is ONE… ONLY… one God; one person of Almighty Spirit and power and authority over that Power.

 

[Kenny]

ADAM was born from NEITHER a human mother nor a human Father.

True... but he was "separated" from God through sin.

And that wasn't the point, was it?

Let's go back to the Holy Spirit. Comforter, Helper, Teacher, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ et al.

 

[Soapy]

True... but he was "separated" from God through sin.

And that wasn't the point, was it?

Let's go back to the Holy Spirit. Comforter, Helper, Teacher, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ et al.

You brought up the subject and fell by it.

Jesus was FATHERED by GOD which means the Spirit was put into a prepared body that enlivened the inert body. The body of Adam was likewise ENLIVENED by the spirit of God - an inert body madd from ‘dust of the earth’.

The seed of a woman is also ‘dust of the earth’ in that unless it is enlivened by the SPIRIT in the seed of a man (Sperm) it is REJECTED from the body of the woman back to the ‘earth’. But in Jesus’s case it was not enlivened by the spirit in the sperm of a man but but the spirit of God…

No different to Adam - Both were SINLESS creations!! Hence Jesus is called ‘The Last Adam’ - the last man created sinless, the last man enlivened directly by the sinless spirit of God!
———————————

So, the Spirit of God (what you call ‘The Holy Spirit’)… Trinity call it ‘The Holy Spirit’ to give the impression that IT is a person, a ‘HE’, and ‘HIM’ but that is a strained argument tantamount to calling a book or computer ‘He’ and ‘Him’ because IT is used to TEACH, REMIND, HELP, AID… even SPEAK, to us.

Of course, GOD’s ‘BOOK’ is a far greater source of all the above - Heck! We just learnt that A.I. is writing our kids English essays in school, sending email IT made up, designing uplifting Poems and music according to the feelings of ITS owner.

Jesus Christ told the disciples that he had to go away else the Spirit of God could not come… what does that mean?

But witness that Jesus was only ever in ONE PLACE at any ONE TIME… The Spirit of God is EVERYWHERE in EVERYONE in EVERY PLACE where IT is accepted because the Spirit of God is TRUTH… and truth is not confined to one place at one time.

Jesus says that the Spirit of truth would ‘TAKE OF WHAT IS HIS’ and present it to them….
‘Take of what is his’… does that mean that Jesus had knowledge, had authority, had intelligence that the Spirit of God did not have??

That’s funny to think about and I think Trinitarians wake up sweating thinking what they are going to say if their congregation should ask them that question!! I mean, isn’t Jesus supposed to be Almighty God… God who is omniscient… and the Spirit of God is God, omniscient as God, and the Father is God, omniscient as Jesus and the Spirit of himself!!

So how does one ‘God’ have knowledge that the other does not have yet they are all three the same ‘OMNISCIENT’ God?

And how is Jesus confined to one place at any time (before his raising up in an immortal body) but the spirit of God was always everywhere at all times. Was ‘GOD’ limited, confined, restricted while in the body of Jesus?

Too many questions and no answers (no credible answers)!!

The Spirit of God: a Comforter. Jesus ‘Guarded’ the disciples, reassured them, taught them, aided them, while he was with them because there were only a relative few most of the time. But in time the word of God would be everywhere and so a universal SPIRIT: a universal comforter; a universal teacher, advocate… would he required:

• The Spirit of God that goes out throughout the world!!

 

[syo]

No no!

Nah.

 

[Soapy]

True... but he was "separated" from God through sin.

And that wasn't the point, was it?

Let's go back to the Holy Spirit. Comforter, Helper, Teacher, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ et al.

Agree on the spirit of God being ‘Counselor’:

• “The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD”(Isaiah 11:2)

But not that the Spirit of Christ IS the Spirit of God as in that it is the actual spirit of God but rather that the spirit of Christ mimics the spirit of God, else this verse no makes no sense:

• “Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” (Gal 4:6)

‘The Spirit of Jesus Christ’… sent by God. If the two spirits were the SAME EXACT SPIRIT then God would just send HIS OWN Spirit.

The spirit of Christ (of Jesus, of the Son) is of a HUMAN SPIRIT. The spirit of Jesus is a created spirit just as our (humanity) spirit is also a created spirit.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

God is Father and Son and Holy Spirit
Father and Son and Holy Spirit are in God

Father is not son, not spirit, not god
Son is not father, not spirit, not god
Holy Spirit is not father, not son, not god

God is not in Man; Man is in God

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

We know from the scriptures that God is the Father (and ‘Father’ means ‘Creator’, ‘Bringer of life’) and Jesus Christ is the spiritual Son of God, a man born in sinlessness who remained sinless all his life and thus mimicked the ideals of his spiritual Father, God, who righteous blood was shed for the sinfulness the first man, Adam.

But what is the role, the purpose, the power and authority of the Spirit of God as envisioned by Trinitarian believers?

The role of the Holy Spirit is to bring Divine inspiration into that which is manifested/incarnated.

It is from the Holy Spirit that such things as below (and the mind-frame to recognise them with) are received:
• Divine experiences
• Divine perspective
• Insights into Divine Will
• Callings to serve Divine Will
• Blessings with which to best serve it
• Strength and courage to live attentively, selflessly and humbly; in accordance with above.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Soapy]

The role of the Holy Spirit is to bring Divine inspiration into that which is manifested/incarnated.

It is from the Holy Spirit that such things as below (and the mind-frame to recognise them with) are received:
• Divine experiences
• Divine perspective
• Insights into Divine Will
• Callings to serve Divine Will
• Blessings with which to best serve it
• Strength and courage to live attentively, selflessly and humbly; in accordance with above.

Humbly,
Hermit

How does your thoughts on the Spirit of God fit with these verse:

• “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” (Job 33:4)
• “The Spirit of the YHWH will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of YHWH” (Isaiah 11:2)

Is the Spirit of God confined to the list you presented?

I’m trying to establish whether or not the Spirit of God was the force that created all things in terms of effecting the commands of God in the beginning:

• ‘Let there be ….’ and it came to be so

I mean, is the spirit of God also the Will of God such that whatGod commanded was made so by His Will.

Everything we, as human Beings, do is by our own Will. We think a thought, that thought is realised through our Will as an activity:

• When I want to stand up (presuming I am seated) I command myself: ‘Stand up’, and my spirit activates the muscles and joints in my body to perform the task of standing up!

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

How does your thoughts on the Spirit of God fit with these verse:

• “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” (Job 33:4)
• “The Spirit of the YHWH will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of YHWH” (Isaiah 11:2)

Is the Spirit of God confined to the list you presented?

I’m trying to establish whether or not the Spirit of God was the force that created all things in terms of effecting the commands of God in the beginning:

• ‘Let there be ….’ and it came to be so

I mean, is the spirit of God also the Will of God such that whatGod commanded was made so by His Will.

Everything we, as human Beings, do is by our own Will. We think a thought, that thought is realised through our Will as an activity:

• When I want to stand up (presuming I am seated) I command myself: ‘Stand up’, and my spirit activates the muscles and joints in my body to perform the task of standing up!

No, the Holy Spirit is of course not confined to the examples I gave. I apologise if that’s how my examples came across.

But I do not see contradiction between my comment and Job 33:4 and Isaiah 11:2. On the contrary; I’d say that my view harmonises with the verses.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

is the spirit of God also the Will of God

Putting Divine [God’s] Will into words is always tricky, because human language is both limited and limiting, but one way of phrasing it could be that Divine Will is the will to “understand” the experience of the Word.

 

[Soapy]

No, the Holy Spirit is of course not confined to the examples I gave. I apologise if that’s how my examples came across.

But I do not see contradiction between my comment and Job 33:4 and Isaiah 11:2. On the contrary; I’d say that my view harmonises with the verses.

Humbly,
Hermit

I hear you.

What I’m saying is that your list seems limited to the actions of the spirit of God in mankind. That’s why I queried it.

The verse in which Job says that the spirit of God made him; gave him life… I asked if that extended to all mankind in that it was the ‘breath of God (which we know as the self-same Spirit of God) was what brought Adam to be a LIVING SOUL.

In which case, would it then be the ACTIONING FORCE that accomplishes the Commands of God in the beginning:

• ‘Let there be….’ And it was so!

For sure, the things in the list you gave are true in full respect of ‘the anointing with Holy Spirit at Pentecost’, and at other times where it is said, x was ‘full of the spirit of God!’.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

I hear you.

What I’m saying is that your list seems limited to the actions of the spirit of God in mankind. That’s why I queried it.

The verse in which Job says that the spirit of God made him; gave him life… I asked if that extended to all mankind in that if was the ‘breath of God (which we know as the self-same Spirit of God) was what brought Adam to be a LIVING SOUL.

In which case, would it then be the ACTIONING FORCE that accomplishes the Commands of God in the beginning:

• ‘Let there be….’ And it was so!

For sure, the things in the list you gave are true in full respect of ‘the anointing with Holy Spirit at Pentecost’, and at other times where it is said, x was ‘full of the spirit of God!’.

I see!

Yes, you are right in that the examples I gave were of the Holy Spirit’s role in relation to man only. And that is because, although man -via the Holy Spirit- can grasp God’s perspective; man is never God.

I can only address your question about the Holy Spirit’s role in relation to man, for I am not God.

I will let it be unsaid whether or not there are those who can comprehensibly describe the Holy Spirit’s relation to Divine Creation and God, but I can with certainty tell you that I, myself, am unable to do so.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[101G]

He is our Counselor, Teacher, Helper and the one that exalts Jesus and confirms the Word with manifested power - among other things. He is also the Spirit of God that is joined to our spirit. He is also known as Christ's Spirit.

Correct, for the Holy Spirit is Jesus, note.... I said Jesus, (smile).

101G.

 

[Soapy]

I see!

Yes, you are right in that the examples I gave were of the Holy Spirit’s role in relation to man only. And that is because, although man -via the Holy Spirit- can grasp God’s perspective; man is never God.

I can only address your question about the Holy Spirit’s role in relation to man, for I am not God.

I will let it be unsaid whether or not there are those who can comprehensibly describe the Holy Spirit’s relation to Divine Creation and God, but I can with certainty tell you that I, myself, am unable to do so.

Humbly,
Hermit

What ARE you saying then?

I am asking the question to Trinitarians who are constantly talking almost entirely about God (the Father) and Jesus (The Son / Christ) at the exclusion of the Spirit of God … yet they claim the three are EQUALLY GOD.

I am asking what then is the role of the Spirit of God if the revelation of God is only in terms of Jesus and the Father.

To wit:

• ‘I and the Father are one’
• ‘I am going to the Father’
• ‘The Father is greater than i’
• ‘I am in the Father and the Father is in me’
• ‘I will ask the Father…’
• ‘I will send [forward / send on] onto you the Gift from the Father’
• ‘The one who loves me will be loved by my Father [also]’
• ‘Did you not know that I must be about my Father’s business’
• ‘In my fathers house there are many rooms’

The spirit of God is only ever mentioned as a subordinate agent SENT BY THE FATHER.
Of course… because it is HIS HOLY SPIRIT!! It is His POWER sent out into the world to strengthen in truth, uphold in integrity, teach, remind, empower, support… Jesus leaned on the power of his Father’s holy Spirit throughout his life to help him ‘face the world’. And it is the same Spirit that was poured out on the Apostles at Pentecost to enable them - each to different degrees and extents - to perform the miraculous things they did, like speak different languages, become great doctors, teach, support, preach, etc.

 

[Soapy]

the Holy Ghost/Spirit is JESUS. supportive scripture. 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:" 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

the Spirit of Christ? now this, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Spirit of God .... Spirit of Christ.... same "one" person, else one has two Spirits.

101G

Trinity claims are that Jesus has two spirits and two personalities.

Your claim is that Jesus has three spirits and three personalities.

It is not a competition about which one of you is MORE correct, because BOTH OF YOU are incorrect!

It is a matter that two false ideologies are being touted and we are not called to judge between them. Such suggestions are the way Satan divides and conquers those who are not truly seeking the truth.

 

[Soapy]

Yes, Jesus is our counselor. The word is also our counselor. It also depends on what you understand "counselor" to mean.

Parakletos​

par-ak'-lay-tos
Noun Masculine

1. summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
   1. one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
   2. one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
      1. of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
   3. in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
      1. of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom

He took the place of Christ.

There is a big difference. We were born from a man and a woman. Jesus was not.

What has ‘We were born from a man and woman’ got to do with anything?

Jesus was a man with only difference being that his spirit-enlivenment was by means of the holy and sinless spirit of God instead of the sperm of a sinful man.

Would you say that the first man, Adam, was also GOD because he, too, was created (spirit-enlivened) by means of the holy and sinless spirit of God?

At the anointing by the spirit of God at Pentecost there were many who had their spirits joined with the spirit of God. An enjoinment of the two spirits does not mean the spirit of God is now the property of the man to whom it is joined. It means that the man can call upon the spirit of God. We see this when Jesus Christ calls upon his Father to USE the spirit of God before he carried out a miracle.

There are those who say that Jesus didn’t pray to the Father but used the spirit directly. No!!! Jesus says he ALWAYS PRAYED to the Father BUT DID SO in private (in silence, in his mind), except in the great miracle of raising Lazarus from the grave. In that case he prayed externally so people around him would know that if was NOT HE THAT RAISED UP LAZARUS but it was GOD WORKING THROUGH HIM… which means, empowerment by the Holy Spirit of God.

Further, the raising of Lazarus did not mean an everlasting resurrection - Lazarus obviously died at some point later! And the disciples and apostles also raised up the dead by means of the spirit of God - does that make them God, also?

 

[Soapy]

Ummm you don't have to say the bible do, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

yes, yes, and yes, in the ECHAD as the ordinal First and Ordinal Last

I can careless what the Trinity say, I'm only intresred in what God says.

101G.
.

If you are interested in what God says then you should stop writing your own fallacious view as though they were true and God is wrong!