• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What is the Source of all goodness and all evil?

A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
InvestigateTruth said:
1. In your belief, if one asks you, what is the foundation of all goodness and virtues, what will be your one word answer?
Click to expand...
"Perspective"

That's my one-word answer. "Good" can only be determined once we know the observer. So, for example, you don't like to have a limb chopped off, right? That would be "bad" from your perspective. However, if that limb dropped into a forest where a scavenger found it and could gnaw the flesh off of it, then from the scavenger's perspective, you losing a limb was "good." It is ALL a matter of perspective.

Say you find a gold nugget on the ground in the middle of your town after you have just eaten a meal and had a drink of water. Lucky day, right?! This is "good." Now let's say you find that same exact nugget of gold but you are starving and dying of thirst in the middle of a huge desert. Finding that gold is nearly meaningless - in fact, it would look like a terrible, fateful irony in that moment.

Without perspective, you can't call anything "good" or "evil." It makes no sense without context.
 
Link

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
One word changed.

For goodness = "Intercession" (because for example, in the past, Mohammad (s) was not here, so intercession was through a different avenue then him)
For evil = "ungratefulness" (rejecting God's light and his Authority and books is a result of mainly this, too ungrateful to accept the favor)
 
InvestigateTruth

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
A Vestigial Mote said:
"Perspective"

That's my one-word answer. "Good" can only be determined once we know the observer. So, for example, you don't like to have a limb chopped off, right? That would be "bad" from your perspective. However, if that limb dropped into a forest where a scavenger found it and could gnaw the flesh off of it, then from the scavenger's perspective, you losing a limb was "good." It is ALL a matter of perspective.

Say you find a gold nugget on the ground in the middle of your town after you have just eaten a meal and had a drink of water. Lucky day, right?! This is "good." Now let's say you find that same exact nugget of gold but you are starving and dying of thirst in the middle of a huge desert. Finding that gold is nearly meaningless - in fact, it would look like a terrible, fateful irony in that moment.

Without perspective, you can't call anything "good" or "evil." It makes no sense without context.
Click to expand...
I see the point you are making.
So, if a lion kills and eats a deer it is good to the lion but bad to the deer. This is because, for a lion to survive it has to hunt and kill. This is nature which is cruel but it is what it is.
But, do you think same view is appropriate to human? What about human values and virtues?
 
A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
InvestigateTruth said:
I see the point you are making.
So, if a lion kills and eats a deer it is good to the lion but bad to the deer. This is because, for a lion to survive it has to hunt and kill. This is nature which is cruel but it is what it is.
But, do you think same view is appropriate to human? What about human values and virtues?
Click to expand...
As a human, I obviously cherish and want what is best for humans... myself and my family, my neighbors, my town, and so on and so on, out into the world. But that doesn't mean that I can't recognize that what I consider "good" is not necessarily "good" in some universal sense. People who do that are the ones who are quick to lament conditions within which they find themselves at a disadvantage and quick to give up, claim that things are "not fair," feel personally affronted at things that have nothing to do with them or feel entitled to certain things, just because they "are human."

There are plenty of people who can't change their perspective even an inch, and feel that their perspective is "the best," or even "the only one," and therefore everything they perceive as "bad" for themselves is expected to be seen as "bad" by everyone else. There are also plenty of people who align "god" with their perspective, such that they can then claim that "god" always happens to find "bad" the things that they, themselves find "bad." None of that is healthy, in my opinion, and opens people up to a world of shock, disappointment, and anger when they run into situations within which they are not going to benefit. There are plenty of those situations to go around, so if one can't "roll with the punches"... well then they are just going to find that many of those punches land squarely in their face, time and time again. That's a psychological hit each and every time, unless you're ready for it, soften those blows, or don't consider them "blows" in the first place. And then you don't have to face psychological torment over it.
 
InvestigateTruth

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Link said:
One word changed.

For goodness = "Intercession" (because for example, in the past, Mohammad (s) was not here, so intercession was through a different avenue then him)
For evil = "ungratefulness" (rejecting God's light and his Authority and books is a result of mainly this, too ungrateful to accept the favor)
Click to expand...
By intercession, do you mean asking Imams or the Qaim for help and act on your behalf to ask God for help and forgiveness?
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
InvestigateTruth said:
1. In your belief, if one asks you, what is the foundation of all goodness and virtues, what will be your one word answer?

2. If you are asked what is the source of all sins, evils and wrongdoings, what will be your answer?
Click to expand...

There's no one reason imo.

The reason why we have both concepts though, is because of us being part of a cooperative society.
Good is whatever maximizes well-being, hapiness, what-have you for sentient beings.
Bad is whatever maximizes suffering.

My answer for the first question is, "Truthfulness".
"Truthfulness is the foundation of all virtues" BAHA'I QUOTE
Click to expand...

That doesn't make much sense to me.
One can be truthful and yet still act in evil ways.

answer to the second one, in my view is:

"Desire of I am better then you". Not necessarily "Proud", as in feeling good and happy with oneself, but to compare with others and having the desire to be better than others and showing to others you are better than them.
Click to expand...

Meh. Not encompassing enough for me.
There's for example also the wanting to be better or become better.
Sometimes it has nothing to do with that and one just enjoys inflicting suffering.
Other times one has the best of intentions but one simply goes about it in a stupid manner.
Other times it's just emotions getting the best of us.

There's a myriad of reason for why people engage in immoral behavior. Or moral behavior, for that matter.

You can't pin this down to a single thing imo.
 
Link

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
InvestigateTruth said:
By intercession, do you mean asking Imams or the Qaim for help and act on your behalf to ask God for help and forgiveness?
Click to expand...

This is not the full meaning of intercession, it's included but the main thing is to seek help from their power and light. Intercession of polytheists before Islam, was such that they sought help from their gods and they saw them acting on behalf of God. The Quran condemns them from worshiping them and for seeking intercession without knowing they would respond because they have no proof from God they can intercede and help, and the latter only occurs by his permission. We don't create and choose who is the interceders rather God does. It turned out it said it was not even Angels you are seeking help from, but Jinn, and not only Jinn but devils that are offspring of Iblis himself.

The Quran doesn't condemn seek intercession in any sense, unless, we seek it from those who God has not permitted. It is incumbent to make sure we know God has given them permission.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
ecco said:
When you commented...


If you were not being derisive of moral relativism, then I misunderstood your meaning. Perhaps your comments should be more than one short sentence, then others would not be put into a position of misunderstanding your meaning.
Click to expand...

Maybe you are trying very hard to get into an argument. There are others. You will succeed. Keep going.

Good luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top