What is the threshold for labeling a religious belief as a “delusion”?

[Eddi]

I agree with you. If you can hear God talking to you, you have 2 alternatives:

1) Never mention it to anyone, and just live your life.
2) Find followers that will support you.

If you can't find followers that will support you, just stick to #1.

You have a third alternative:

Share it with others, speak openly about it but don't expect people to follow you or for you to become a religious leader

Basically have realistic expectations because the era a prophets is now over

Expect people to listen to you but don't expect to make disciples of them

People may be interested in your ideas but you will never become a guru

 

[Koldo]

You have a third alternative:

Share it with others, speak openly about it but don't expect people to follow you or for you to become a religious leader

Basically have realistic expectations because the era a prophets is now over

Expect people to listen to you but don't expect to make disciples of them

People may be interested in your ideas but you will never become a guru

And expect ostracism, shunning, involuntary hospitalization...

Simply not worth it. That's why having followers is not optional, it is mandatory.

 

[Eddi]

And expect ostracism, shunning, involuntary hospitalization...

It's not so bad

 

[ChristineM]

It's not so bad

Brother in law though it terrible.

 

[Eddi]

Brother in law though it terrible.

I like being me, it's interesting

 

[RestlessSoul]

I doubt anyone ever got hospitalised for expressing strange ideas. It’s behaviours, not beliefs, that tend to get people sectioned.

 

[Eddi]

I doubt anyone ever got hospitalised for expressing strange ideas. It’s behaviours, not beliefs, that tend to get people sectioned.

Beliefs lead to behaviours though, that's the thing!

 

[RestlessSoul]

Beliefs lead to behaviours though, that's the thing!

They can, certainly. And if our beliefs lead us to harmful behaviours, it would then make sense to question our beliefs.

But isn’t it one of the definitions of a delusion, that it’s unshakable in the face of all evidence or reason?

 

[ChristineM]

I like being me, it's interesting

Oh he likes being himself, he hated being sectioned because he couldn't be himself

 

[Eddi]

They can, certainly. And if our beliefs lead us to harmful behaviours, it would then make sense to question our beliefs.

But isn’t it one of the definitions of a delusion, that it’s unshakable in the face of all evidence or reason?

It is, but given time they can fade

If only by being replaced by new delusions!

 

[Eddi]

Oh he likes being himself, he hated being sectioned because he couldn't be himself

I have fond memories of being sectioned but wasn't too keen on it at the time

 

[McBell]

I'd draw the line at the point the beliefs begin to negatively impact your life or the lives of others by way of psychotic tendencies or behaviors resulting in a deficiency in, loss of contact with, or inability to function in reality.

I'm not a licensed psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist.

I have often wondered if the same line should be drawn if the beliefs start to positively impact lives.

I mean, delusion is delusion, right?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I have often wondered if the same line should be drawn if the beliefs start to positively impact lives.

Interesting. How often have you wondered this?

In your endless hours of contemplation on the subject, did you conclude that the purpose of beliefs is to remain static in one's development and that they should have no impact on one's life?

Perhaps we should apply this same principle to education...

I mean, delusion is delusion, right?

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It is, but given time they can fade

If only by being replaced by new delusions!

Probably we’re all subject to degrees of delusion: we don’t see the world as it is, we see it as we are, someone once said. And sometimes we can all be way off beam in our perceptions. How tightly we cling to those delusions, or distorted perceptions, might be a factor in how harmful they are.

 

[McBell]

Interesting. How often have you wondered this?

In your endless hours of contemplation on the subject, did you conclude that the purpose of beliefs is to remain static in one's development and that they should have no impact on one's life?

Perhaps we should apply this same principle to education...


Whatever floats your boat.

Interesting that you avoid it.

The fact is that being delusional is only considered bad if someone else thinks it is having a negative impact.
So it is not delusion that is being addressed, it is the impact said delusion has.

Interesting how you would avoid such a distinction.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Interesting that you avoid it.

The fact is that being delusional is only considered bad if someone else thinks it is having a negative impact.
So it is not delusion that is being addressed, it is the impact said delusion has.

Interesting how you would avoid such a distinction.

Interesting how you apply "bad" to what I said. I never applied good or bad to anything in this thread.

But we get it...

 

[McBell]

Interesting how you apply "bad" to what I said. I never applied good or bad to anything in this thread.

But we get it...

No idea why it is you seem determined to put me in some anti-believer box.
Especially when I flat out said it is not the beliefs, it is the impact...

but hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[MikeF]

There are other reasons besides clinical delusion that can explain one's holding a factually incorrect belief. We can form a belief and hold it as true because we have insufficient information to contradict it. We can accept a factually incorrect belief as true because it has been presented as such from a trusted source. We can also succumb to confirmation bias which causes us to minimize or disregard information that conflicts with a deeply held or emotionally charged belief while over-emphasizing evidence felt to support the belief or incorrectly attributing evidence as relevant or applicable. I suppose this can rise to the level one might describe as self-deception. If beliefs held as a self-deception are also widely held as such by others, that circumstance will only act to reinforce and entrench the self-deception among all who share the belief. This circumstance is not what is meant or implied when speaking of clinical delusion.

Labeling any and all incorrect beliefs as a delusion would indicate a misunderstanding of the term delusion in my opinion.

I'm not a psychologist, psychiatrist, or other mental health professional.

 

[SalixIncendium]

No idea why it is you seem determined to put me in some anti-believer box.

You tend to place yourself there. I didn't just make your inclinations up in my head.

Especially when I flat out said it is not the beliefs, it is the impact...

In actuality, you suggested that a line should be drawn for where the positive impacts of beliefs should be considered delusion...

I have often wondered if the same line should be drawn if the beliefs start to positively impact lives.

I mean, delusion is delusion, right?

 

[McBell]

In actuality, you suggested that a line should be drawn for where the positive impacts of beliefs should be considered delusion...

Why have you changed it from delusion to beliefs?
Are they one and the same to you?
Or perhaps the problem is that you call negative impact beliefs delusions?

A delusion is a delusion, right?

Why is it you conflate delusion with belief?