what is the view on homosexuals in hinduism

[LilyPhoenix]

what is the Hindu view of those who are transexual or Androgynous?
Also what is the Hindu view of people who are gay ,lesbian and bisexual ?

 

[Andal]

There has long been the tradition of the Hijra which is the 3rd gender. Transgendered people would traditionally fall into this category

There is also the folk stories of Krishna dressing as a woman to please Radha

To each their own. What ever identity is going to bring you balance and happiness in the material world. Ultimately gender and sexuality are temporary any way.

My view on homosexuals.... Well it's the same as my view on heterosexuals. It makes little difference to me. We are all acting out our karma anyway.

There may be Hindus who disagree but I fail to see why what happens in a loving relationship becomes the arena for public debate. Paramatma is in all of us.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Shuddhasattva]

As you may get used to hearing, there is no "Hindu view" as such on this topic and many/most/all others.

You'll have individual opinions partially guided by Hindu religious views and, more commonly, Hindu cultural ones.

There are many fundamentalist and conservative communities. There are also many liberal ones. And there are individuals within both camps that have opposing views.

The most important thing is not the social views, but the system of ideas and practices given to us by our religion. Here Hinduism(s) have excellent support for 'advanced' gender notions, specifically where they relate to practical experience of god.

For example, your forum 'avatar' is, as you no doubt are aware, Ardhanarishvara; the lord who is half woman. We have many deities, mantras, practices, and the like, associated with nondual gender states and androgyny, and our tantric yoga bids us to reconcile the sexual polarities within our own field of awareness as an internal alchemy with which to experience the nondual awareness (prakasha + vimarsha as shiva shakti samarasa).

Many of our meditative and devotional practices also 'play' with gender concepts; in tantric Vaishnavism and gaudiya vaishnavism's madhurya bhava, male devotees may experience themselves as females attracted to God-as-male.

Likewise, they may also view themselves as male devotees attracted to God-as-female in other tantric traditions such as those associated with Kali.

 

[Vinayaka]

Individuals are influenced by many factors. For example, its probably true that tolerance increases the closer you are to something. In the gay case, usually if the person is wthin the family, tolerance will increase. Why? Because the person is seen as a person, which includes far more than just gender or anything sexual. Same principle with blonds, tall people etc.

So too is society an influence. If you live within a social pocket of intolerance, yes you are more likely to become intolerant.

In Hinduism, we (try to) take it a step further yet, we try to view people as souls, not as people with attributes. Therefore gender and sexual preference becomes rather in the background. There is a saying that the eyes are a gateway to the soul. All embodied jivas have eyes.

 

[Maija]

Shuddhasattva-ji, you have put this beautifully, what a visually and contextually illustrative explanation.

Vinayakajias too, wonderful answer--i started but was waiting for someone who would be able to articulate this better than I could. I saw you responded and thought, Awesome.

We use the definition for tolerate and I understand where it comes from but the root of the word: ' to be able to bear; put up with' sometimes comes to mind for some, as in I have an opposing set of beliefs according to this person but I am putting up with this guy..

I want to remind people that from a Sanatana Dharma perspective, we are using the other definition of tolerance which instead of belittling is 'To recognize and respect (the rights, beliefs, or practices of others).' So, I am respecting others and loving them fully, not just tolerating them the way someone tolerates a situation which is burdening and aggravating them on the inside, while smiling on the outside.

I think that as a society, I see many tolerant people who are smiling on the outside and inflamed on the inside, this is not practicing true love and acceptance.

I hope my explanations are not so vague that they don't make sense..
The two guys above said it all pretty darn well!if it wasnt clear-i know which definition meaning of the word tolerance they were using, I just wanted to clarify bc maybe im not the only one who can hear two sides to that word

 

[Vinayaka]

This is off topic. I agree with tolerance, Maija. But I also think it can be taken too far by starting to practice and believe what others believe, leading to internal contradictions and confusion.

But to DarkAsylum ... For me it is an absolute non-issue, with one possible exception within maths and mutts (Hindu terms for monasteries) Just as all monasteries in traditional Hinduism have segregated the genders, its also wise to refuse entrance to same gender homosexuals.

 

[Jainarayan]

I believe that Hinduism has nothing theological to say against any form of sex inasmuch as it causes no harm and no distraction from the path to moksha. I think modern opposition to lgbt sexuality is a legacy of the puritanical British rule of India.

The following excerpt is from the Handbook of Sri Vaishnavism by Ramunajacharya. I'm sure this not his exact quote, but a commentary on his writing:

Homosexuality

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]On the subject of sex and life styles it needs to be mentioned that homosexuality which is a major obsession with the "Abrahamic coalition" (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) and the focus of many social and politico-religious agendas in the West and which attracts endless invective and hatred is a non-event in Srivaishnavism. None of the acharyas have ever considered the topic important enough to discuss. So for a Srivaishnava position on the subject we need to take another look at the Scriptures which inform us that there are three types of births;-[/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The jiva is blinded by ignorance; sometimes it is embodied as a man, sometimes as a woman, sometimes as a homosexual. According to its deeds and the nature it acquires thereby, it may be born as a deva, a human or a beast. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.29.[/FONT]​

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]According to the Dharma, homosexuals (both male and female) are born as such and cannot be "converted" from heterosexuality. There is no conscious choice in the matter of sexuality - it is determined by one’s Karma. The question of evil or wickedness does not arise in the case of natural disposition. The victimisation, discrimination or ostracization of homosexuals is wrong and contradicts the teachings of the dharma. The acharyas have never addressed this issue, and none of the law givers have made a big deal about it. In fact there is no mention of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]homosexuality in any of the catalogues of sins that one finds in the Puranas. It is a matter of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]no consequence and not worthy of any serious mental expenditure. The general guidelines of the Dharma regulating relationships and social activities apply to homosexuals as well.[/FONT][/FONT]

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4 Chapter 29 Verse 29

kvacit puman kvacic ca stri
kvacin nobhayam andha-dhih
devo manushyas tiryag va
yatha-karma-gunam bhavah

SYNONYMS
kvacit -- sometimes; puman -- male; kvacit -- sometimes; ca -- also; stri -- female; kvacit -- sometimes; na -- not; ubhayam -- both; andha -- blind; dhih -- he whose intelligence; devah -- demigod; manushyah -- human being; tiryak -- animal, bird, beast; va -- or; yatha -- according to; karma -- of activities; gunam -- the qualities; bhavah -- birth.

TRANSLATION
Covered by the mode of ignorance in material nature, the living entity is sometimes a male, sometimes a female, sometimes a eunuch, sometimes a human being, sometimes a demigod, sometimes a bird, an animal, and so on. In this way he is wandering within the material world. His acceptance of different types of bodies is brought about by his activities under the influence of the modes of nature.

In Bhagavad-gita As It Is Chapter 7 Verse 11 (albeit Prabhupada's somewhat narrow take on it):

balaḿ balavatāḿ cāhaḿ
kāma-rāga-vivarjitam
dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu
kāmo 'smi bharatarṣabha

SYNONYMS
balam — strength; bala-vatām — of the strong; ca — and; aham — I am; kāma — passion; rāga — and attachment; vivarjitam — devoid of; dharma-aviruddhaḥ — not against religious principles; bhūteṣu — in all beings; kāmaḥ — sex life; asmi — I am; bharata-ṛṣabha — O lord of the Bhāratas.

TRANSLATION
I am the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire. I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, O lord of the Bhāratas (Arjuna).

I don't like the word 'religion' in place of 'dharma'. Religion smacks of rules and rituals and regulations. Dharma has several meanings.

 

[Jainarayan]

...its also wise to refuse entrance to same gender homosexuals.

Even then it should be a non-issue, afaik, as well as preventing someone from pursuing a calling:

1. The vows of celibacy/chasity taken by monastics.
2. No one would be revealing their sexual orientation or preference upon entering monastic life, knowing what it entails. Or so I'd think. I for one would not be inclined to let the monastic community know my sexual preferences.

There may be something I'm missing, however.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

My personal opinion can be of tolerance towards homosexuality. It is good. Hinduism promotes tolerance and respect for others.

Irrespective of anyone's personal tolerance and opinion, Hinduism deals with the science of self-realization. God realization. It enjoins the path of complete abstinence from sex life - celibacy. If someone is not able to follow the path of celibacy, he is 'allowed' to marry and have 'restricted' sex life. By restricted, it is to be understood - sex life only for the propagation of God conscious children. Not sense enjoyment.

Thus, we can understand the stand of Hinduism on homosexuality. Hinduism is a religion that propagates abstinence from all forms of sense enjoyment, with sex-life being the chief, and for achieving the highest objective of human life - God realization.

Surrender to Supreme Lord, in what He wants of us is Hinduism. Making the Lord surrender to us, in what we want of Him is sense gratification. Exact opposite of what Hindu scriptures teach.

 

[Vinayaka]

There may be something I'm missing, however.

Indeed. Traditional monasteries (I'm not talking about the neo ones that call themselves ashrams, but the staunch traditional ones like in Rishikesh, Haridwar, the Swaminarayan fellowship etc. They are not mixed, just as the convents and monasteries within Catholicism aren't mixed. It's not really a rule, it's just common sense. A monastery is a place for retreat, away from the world, and any temptations, not just sexual, but also things like material, food, etc. are kept simple.

It's just realistic common sense in the same way that the Boy Scouts of America should have been asking some pertinent sexual questions. Traditional monasteries don't usually have such problems though as there are so many other barriers for the postulant to get past. Usually there is a questionaire like any other 'employer' might have. I think the monastery would want to know a lot of things, including disease, medical history, other health conditions etc.

So just as a man isn't accepted into a convent, not just for the nuns, but also for him, it would be unwise for a homosexual man to request to join a monastery. I doubt that there are hard and fast rules though, and that may vary from organisation to organisation.

The one individual case I know of, the celibate is on his own, outside the monastery, practicing the art of the 'wandering ascetic'. But hey, this is way off topic. Bottom line is Hindus, if they're practicing, love everybody.

 

[Jainarayan]

I wondered if there was a sort of interview process. The Roman Catholic Church began that after the scandals. However, they went so far as to ask in a way that if the applicant to a seminary indicated or hinted at the idea of "male bonding" with a buddy, even though he was straight and had no homosexual tendencies, he was disqualified.

 

[Maya3]

Unless there is more than one gay person at the monastery I don't see the problem, and even if there is I'm sure they will have to try try their best to stay celibate, you are not attracted to every gay person you see, nor every straight person.

Gay people generally don't fall in love with straight people.
Just as straight people don't fall in love with gay ones that often.

A gay man might be hot like .... but if he is gay there is just something missing for me who is straight. It's the "wrong" chemistry, it doesn't mix with mine.
I'm sure it's the same for gay people, it has to be the right chemistry, it's not just what kind of plumming a person has

Maya

 

[Maija]

This is off topic. I agree with tolerance, Maija. But I also think it can be taken too far by starting to practice and believe what others believe, leading to internal contradictions and confusion.

But to DarkAsylum ... For me it is an absolute non-issue, with one possible exception within maths and mutts (Hindu terms for monasteries) Just as all monasteries in traditional Hinduism have segregated the genders, its also wise to refuse entrance to same gender homosexuals.

sexual orientation is so personal that id think it pretty difficult to change ones sexual orientation or adopt gay practices as a straight person and vice versa. as per changing ones beliefs, can you elaborate on that. its an interesting point im not sure i understood.

 

[Vinayaka]

I wondered if there was a sort of interview process. The Roman Catholic Church began that after the scandals. However, they went so far as to ask in a way that if the applicant to a seminary indicated or hinted at the idea of "male bonding" with a buddy, even though he was straight and had no homosexual tendencies, he was disqualified.

Let's put this way then (for the record I'm straight) .... If I was trying to be celibate (this means no semen leaving my body period) ... please note it does take substantial effort ... would I like to be in a situation surrounded by women, some of them young and pretty, putting phermones (sp?) into the air whether they know it or not, or would I like to be with men whom I know I definitely have no attraction to.

Even in grihastha life, I don't go about hanging out with a lot of women all day long ... at least not intentionally. By circumstance (I was an elementary teacher) it happened. My organisation for example, holds women's retreats, as do many ashrams. I can't sign up, as far as I know.

Its basically the same reason traditional temples have segregated sitting, men on one side, women on the other.

As far as interview processes go, it depends totally on the Math, Mutt, or aadheenam, of course. Some will be less stringent than others for sure. But there is always some level of qualifying. You can't just knock on the door saying, "I'm here and you have to let me in because I want to be a monk." Many have age limits for example. Monasteries are not ashrams.

And, if you've done any reading at all, Hindus are not at all immune to scandals.

 

[Vinayaka]

as per changing ones beliefs, can you elaborate on that. its an interesting point im not sure i understood.

Tolerance ... for example. I love my Christian friends. I think Christianity suits them just fine. I respect them, and their choice. I go to Christian friend's funerals or weddings. I respect them as people. But once they invite me to attend church to listen to something that I don't believe in, then I politely decline. It is sometimes difficult tactfully, but in my view, mix and match makes for confusion.

I leave that stuff to the universalists. Somehow they seen to think they can go to a permanent heaven and reincarnate, eat meat and be a vegetarian, etc. (Now I'm just exaggerating for effect.) But again we're off topic.

 

[Maija]

It's an interesting topic, no matter what your stance on it is. Especially, amongst religions that don't seem to have a black and white stance on it like say Islam and Christianity. Almost makes you think it's a non-issue, I obviously am far too new to Sanatana Dharma to easily make that opinion.

Here's what wiki says, granted Wiki is NOT the ultimate religious reference, :no: it does sum up some popular debated and topics quite well..And if on THIS subject it is way off, then at least its on topic.heh

Religion and homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Homosexuality & Hinduism

Hinduism has taken various positions, ranging from positive to neutral or discouraging. Homosexuality is regarded as one of the possible expressions of human desire and Hindu mythic stories have portrayed homosexual experience as natural and joyful. There are several Hindu temples which have carvings that depict both men and women indulging in homosexual sex.

Rigveda, one of the four canonical sacred texts of Hinduism says 'Vikruti Evam Prakriti' (diversity is what nature is all about, or, what seems un-natural is also natural), which some scholars believe recognizes homosexuality as natural, if not an approval of homosexuality. Moreover, Rigveda recognizes the cyclical constancy of homosexual/transsexual dimensions of human life, like all forms of universal diversities. The Hindu text Kamasutra written by Sage Vatsyayana has a complete chapter on male-male sex. Chapter six, Auparishtika talks about fellatio (oral sex) between two men. However, sexuality is rarely discussed openly in Hindu society today, and homosexuality is largely a taboo subject — especially among the strongly religious. In a 2004 survey, most swamis said they opposed the concept of a Hindu-sanctified gay marriage. Some of the law codes, such as that of Manu Smriti assert that a woman polluting a virgin is a crime. Punishments include ritual baths, fines, public humiliation and having fingers cut off. However, the bulk of sexual matters dealt with by the law books are heterosexual in nature.

A "third gender" has been acknowledged within Hinduism since Vedic times. Several Hindu texts, such as Manu Smriti and Sushruta Samhita, assert that some people are born with either mixed male and female natures, or sexually neuter, as a matter of natural biology. They worked as hairdressers, flower-sellers, servants, masseurs and prostitutes. Today, many people of a "third gender" (hijras) live throughout India, mostly on the margins of society, and many still work in prostitution, or make a livelihood as beggars.

The Indian Kama Sutra, written in the 4th century AD, contains passages describing eunuchs or "third-sex" males performing oral sex on men. However, the author was "not a fan of homosexual activities" and treated such individuals with disdain, according to historian Devdutt Pattanaik. Similarly, some medieval Hindu temples and artifacts openly depict male homosexuality, lesbianism, and bisexuality within their carvings, such as the temple walls at Khajuraho. Some infer from these images that Hindu society and religion were previously more open to variations in human sexuality than they are at present.

Hindu scriptures contain several stories that metaphorically have homosexual, bisexual, transgender, or other kinds of queer overtones, often involving the most prominent Hindu deities. There are Hindu deities who are intersex (both male and female), e.g., Ardhanari, who is the unified form of Shiva and Parvati; who switch from male to female or from female to male, e.g., Mohini, who is the only female Avatar of Vishnu; male deities with female moods and female deities with male moods, e.g., Krishna turning into Mohini to fulfil Iravan's boon; deities born from two males or from two females, e.g., Ayyappan, who is considered to be "Harihara Putra", the son of Shiva and Vishnu, in his Mohini Avatar, and so on...etc

I do remember being in India, having lived in SF and Africa I thought it was really hard to experience culture shock, however I did when I saw hijras, I must admit. I think part of it was, the group I ran into wanted to be paid for blessing me with many children in my future and when I didn't have change blessings + praise turned to rapid irritation.

LOL.

Vinyaka- I agree fully with what you said, we can only do what is right for us. I apologize about the many editing changes, I often am responding and in this case, potty training...it's not a good combo!

 

[LilyPhoenix]

Thank you everyone for your replies

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

what is the Hindu view of those who are transexual or Androgynous?
Also what is the Hindu view of people who are gay ,lesbian and bisexual ?

From a quick skim of the Veda, I did not see anywhere of any mention on this subject.

Personally, Other peoples sexuality is none of my business, nor does it effect my perception of them, and I try to keep it like that.