What is "woke" in 2024

[icehorse]

I understand the OP just fine, it's just the latest iteration in a long line of your threads connected to identity politics. You said: "below is a list of beliefs ascribed to the far-left / woke, in 2024. The more of them you agree with, the more “woke” you are" and then you dropped a hot mess of a list that's literally useless on its face and frankly looks like it was cooked up on Gateway Pundit.

I prefer to debate specific ideas, not things like skin color.

The list I cooked up is based on what's happening out in the world. You have yet to explain away best selling authors who promote these ideas.

 

[anna.]

I prefer to debate specific ideas, not things like skin color.

The list I cooked up is based on what's happening out in the world. You have yet to explain away best selling authors who promote these ideas.

There was nothing in my post about skin color.

You have yet to address your bandwagon fallacy, in using book sale numbers to support your OP.

 

[McBell]

First off, I think it’s important to understand that almost all categorization schemes are imperfect. I’m not a fan of identity politics (IP), but IP all too prevalent in society these days, and I admit that when I call someone “woke”, I’m guilty of using IP. So all of the following ideas are approximations and I’m sure imperfect. But I think demanding perfection in this context falls into the trap of making the perfect the enemy of the good.

==

There is at least one political spectrum that runs from the far left, to the moderate left, to the centrists, to the moderate right, to the far right. I would say that there are sets of ideas or beliefs commonly associated with each of these positions on the spectrum. For the sake of discussion, let’s say that for each stop on the spectrum we could enumerate 20 beliefs, most commonly associated with that stop.

Most people will not fall cleanly into a single stop on the spectrum. An individual might align with 15 of the 20 moderate left beliefs, but also believe a few far left ideas and a few conservative ideas. The same can be said of other domains. For example, we know that there is at least one religious spectrum that ranges from hard atheist to religious fundamentalism, with many stops in between.

In other words labels such as “far right” or “woke” or “hard atheist” or “religious fundamentalist” are almost always approximations of an individual, and every individual will believe some things that are inconsistent with whatever label we ascribe to them.

==



With all those caveats and disclaimers in place, below is a list of beliefs ascribed to the far-left / woke, in 2024. The more of them you agree with, the more “woke” you are. And again, no one is perfectly woke or perfectly far right or moderate. These are all rough approximations.

Far-left / woke beliefs:

1 - Free speech is less important than protecting people from being offended.
2 - Protecting personal liberties is less important than protecting people from being offended.
3 - The world’s people and societies should be viewed from an “oppressed vs. oppressor” perspective.
4 - White people have privilege, and are racist by default.
5 - White cultures are more colonist and imperialist than non-white cultures.
6 - An individual’s “lived experience” should have as much or more weight in public policy than broad statistical facts.
7 - There is an intersectional or oppression hierarchy and any criticism of the “most oppressed” people’s ideas or activism are by default “phobic” or “racist” in some way.
8 - Objectivity, critical thinking, and logic are tools of the oppressors.
9 - The DEI perspective and DEI initiatives must not be criticized.
10 - Diversity (in DEI), is based on race, gender, and sexuality more than on diversity of ideas.
11 - Inclusion (in DEI), is based on race, gender, sexuality, and conformity to woke beliefs, non-conformists are excluded.
12 - Equality (in DEI) means equality of outcomes, not equality of opportunities.
13 - The concerns of the most oppressed are more important than the concerns of the less oppressed.
14 - Cultural appropriation is a significant problem in society.
15- People’s immutable identity characteristics are more important than their behaviors.
16 - The only cultures that can be criticized are western cultures.

The word "woke" has become one of those words that means whatever it is the user of the word wants it mean at the particular time and place it is being used.

The word can mean one thing at one time and place and the exact opposite of the first meaning in a completely separate time and place, by the exact same person.

Thus meaning, In My Opinion, the word is all but useless at this time in history.

 

[Father Heathen]

Well no - I actually gave you your answer to your bad faith rhetorical question in my original reply - "it's a lightly derogative term and rightfully so".

I've already pointed out that "woke" has been co-opted by conservatives and turned into a lazy pejorative for things they don't like or understand, so your reply was redundant. So tell us again how Cracker Barrel offering a plant based sausage patty option their menu makes them "woke"?

It's used more often than not to refer to liberals and leftists who have devolved into tribalism and are more than willing to abandon any rational, reasonable or critical thought in order to preserve their egos that are unfortunately inseparable from their political opinions.

Because crying over windmills, rainbow flags, and black mermaids is totally reasonable and rational.

You're actually doing an excellent job of demonstrating my point with how you're reacting to the thread right now.

The fact of the matter is that "woke" - and those who use it - can't be taken seriously.

 

[icehorse]

There was nothing in my post about skin color.

You have yet to address your bandwagon fallacy, in using book sale numbers to support your OP.

I don't think I'm making a bandwagon fallacy - how do you think I'm doing that?

To be clear: My argument is that hundreds of thousands or millions of people believe in the list provided in the OP. I don't think that makes them right, in fact, I think they're wrong.

But the point is that those millions of people ARE a part of the world's reality these days.

 

[icehorse]

The fact of the matter is that "woke" - and those who use it - can't be taken seriously.

As you've professed your ignorance on this topic several times already, forgive us if we don't think your opinion holds much weight.

 

[Father Heathen]

As you've professed your ignorance on this topic several times already, forgive us if we don't think your opinion holds much weight.

Oh, no. Now I know how a plant based sausage patty feels.

 

[anna.]

I don't think I'm making a bandwagon fallacy - how do you think I'm doing that?

Argumentum ad populum​

(Redirected from Bandwagon fallacy)

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people")[1] is a fallacious argument which is based on claiming a truth or affirming something is good or correct because many people think so.[2]​

By your supporting your list based on the fact that bestselling authors have sold x amount of copies.

It doesn't mean that the books were read, it doesn't mean they were agreed with - in part or in whole - and it doesn't mean that those hypothetical x number of potential readers convert to actual woke warriors out to subvert the culture. In sum, those x amount of hypotheticals don't get to define the rest of the population.

To be clear: My argument is that hundreds of thousands or millions of people believe in the list provided in the OP. I don't think that makes them right, in fact, I think they're wrong.

But the point is that those millions of people ARE a part of the world's reality these days.

Doesn't matter if you think they're right or wrong. It's your generalizing that sample to the population.

 

[Viker]

Can you explain what you mean?

I openly identify as woke. Nothing in that list describes me, my beliefs or intentions.

 

[Argentbear]

I will be happy to take this up elsewhere, I think many of your claims above are invalid

Well of course you think that. Trans people are evil hateful oppressors who push a twisted ideology aimed only at the corruption and mutilation of children. Anything that doesn't fit that assessment no matter how well documented or factual can't even be considered as true.

 

[Argentbear]

No I did not cull it from Amazon comments ffs.

Let's see if I'm understanding you correctly: Your "team" is arguing that I'm detached from reality, and you're also arguing that books that sell hundreds of thousands of copies aren't a good metric of reality?

Help me understand your math

Both your books were outsold by “Confessions of a Guidette” by Nicole ‘Snooki’ Polizzi

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well no - I actually gave you your answer to your bad faith rhetorical question in my original reply - "it's a lightly derogative term and rightfully so".

It's used more often than not to refer to liberals and leftists who have devolved into tribalism and are more than willing to abandon any rational, reasonable or critical thought in order to preserve their egos that are unfortunately inseparable from their political opinions.

You're actually doing an excellent job of demonstrating my point with how you're reacting to the thread right now.

No, conservatives misuse woke just like they misuse Orwellian. Woke is simply being aware of social ans system prejudice and injustice, especially in regards to black people as it was something originally used to describe their plight in society. Conservatives have simply misused it amd that's on them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I prefer to debate specific ideas, not things like skin color.

The list I cooked up is based on what's happening out in the world. You have yet to explain away best selling authors who promote these ideas.

See? It's not the existence of the authors but their ideas you are trying to say are grounded in reality based solely on their popularity.
You really are here to debage specific ideas, but only when they don't totally oppose and destroy yours.

 

[LuisDantas]

Care to disambiguate?

I am disappointed that you go through the trouble of such an utterly strawmanly (or worse) OP... and that there are people who do not laught of it at sight.

Do you even believe that such "woke" people exist at all?

It is offensive, more than a little childish, and quite delusional. Not necessarily in that order.

 

[ChristineM]

Thank you and all those who like your post for reinforcing your alligience to IP.

Am I wrong to rephrase your post to be: Anyone who disagrees with me is far right?

Yes, you are wrong, very wrong, but ots expected. I could fire that straight back at you by rephrasing it "anyone who disagrees with you is far left" am i correct?

FYI I have several right wing friends, including my husband (who has now changed his allegence). I have no problems with the right so long as they do not lie about the left. A thing that is becoming more and more prevalent since the rise of trump's lying politics

 

[Debater Slayer]

Sorry, this is just the nature of Islam. I've read your book, I've read biographies of your prophet (the most apologetic I could find).

"Your"?

Spreading theocracy is baked into the core of Islam.

Not all interpretations of Islam have that "baked into" them.

I see that this thread has become another one of those where you're mostly not talking to people who disagree with you but are instead talking at them: misrepresenting many of their positions in ways contrary to what they directly tell you about their views, trying to tell them what they believe, and now apparently making an assumption that I follow a specific religion just because I pushed back against unevidenced claims that a "significant percentage" of its followers want to spread theocracy.

Good luck with it. I'm not putting any more time or energy into this futile exercise.

 

[wellwisher]

Funny, I always thought that being woke meant being sensitive to injustice. Easy to remember.

Don't woke policies; goals, create Government run oppression? Nobody voted for all that illegal immigration; force the international oppressed onto the majority of privileged first world citizens. Woke is a threat to Democracy. Woke is actually like a person who is still asleep, but dreaming of being awakened. by the heavy hand of Government. Affirmative Action had its own government created victims. Government by virtue of size and power monopoly has the potential to the be worse oppressor. Woke is a way to wake the sleeping criminal government.

Name me a woke ideal that can happen without Government strong arm? Woke is actually a DNC and Swamp Government scam designed to steal power from the people and from Democracy. Democracy allows everyone the right to pursue happiness. Woke is the right of Government to force that right to happiness for their chosen minions. Name me a woke person who is not also DNC? It is a political scam.

Let us place the most unqualified woke people, as the leaders of the Secret Service, to protect a former president. Only government would be so obvious, as to their end game. How about we take a Democratic vote to decide the fate of the woke agenda? Woke is not about the will of the people, but is really about using the force of Government, to gradually replace Democracy, with a socialist dictatorship, that can now muscle the free market and business; DEI, and then ruin the economy as a prelude, to defaulting to Socialism. Socialism is based on mediocrity, as is woke.

Project 2025, which is being misrepresented by fake news is about a return to Democracy by restoring Government to this original mission as defined by the founding fathers; Public Servant, and not a woke overlord. For example, Big Government, via the DNC, had down graded education. This is a major reason of so many woke people feeling short changed. The Government set you up for failure, as a child, and brain washed to think you now need the very Government, who deprived you of a good education, to fix the problem they created.

Project 2025 scares the DNC, since it changes the Government from education up, to avoid all these deliberatepitfalls. It will set back their scams 20-30 years. It took 20-30 years to downgrade education, to where the woke scam seems to make sense. There is a way to get social justice on your own and that is called a rational education and learning self motivation so you can pursue your own American dream. Welcome to the adult world of Democracy. You will no longer need Big Mama, to fight your battles, because she handicapped you. It is liberating to feel you can work under your own steam and not project failure to justify waking a Criminal Government; Shady version of Robin Hood.

 

[Argentbear]

Don't woke policies; goals, create Government run oppression? Nobody voted for all that illegal immigration; force the international oppressed onto the majority of privileged first world citizens. Woke is a threat to Democracy. Woke is actually like a person who is still asleep, but dreaming of being awakened. by the heavy hand of Government. Affirmative Action had its own government created victims. Government by virtue of size and power monopoly has the potential to the be worse oppressor. Woke is a way to wake the sleeping criminal government.

Name me a woke ideal that can happen without Government strong arm? Woke is actually a DNC and Swamp Government scam designed to steal power from the people and from Democracy. Democracy allows everyone the right to pursue happiness. Woke is the right of Government to force that right to happiness for their chosen minions. Name me a woke person who is not also DNC? It is a political scam.

Let us place the most unqualified woke people, as the leaders of the Secret Service, to protect a former president. Only government would be so obvious, as to their end game. How about we take a Democratic vote to decide the fate of the woke agenda? Woke is not about the will of the people, but is really about using the force of Government, to gradually replace Democracy, with a socialist dictatorship, that can now muscle the free market and business; DEI, and then ruin the economy as a prelude, to defaulting to Socialism. Socialism is based on mediocrity, as is woke.

Project 2025, which is being misrepresented by fake news is about a return to Democracy by restoring Government to this original mission as defined by the founding fathers; Public Servant, and not a woke overlord. For example, Big Government, via the DNC, had down graded education. This is a major reason of so many woke people feeling short changed. The Government set you up for failure, as a child, and brain washed to think you now need the very Government, who deprived you of a good education, to fix the problem they created.

Project 2025 scares the DNC, since it changes the Government from education up, to avoid all these deliberatepitfalls. It will set back their scams 20-30 years. It took 20-30 years to downgrade education, to where the woke scam seems to make sense. There is a way to get social justice on your own and that is called a rational education and learning self motivation so you can pursue your own American dream. Welcome to the adult world of Democracy. You will no longer need Big Mama, to fight your battles, because she handicapped you. It is liberating to feel you can work under your own steam and not project failure to justify waking a Criminal Government; Shady version of Robin Hood.

I'd respond to this but is just to incoherent to figure out what you are ranting about

 

[Brickjectivity]

First off, I think it’s important to understand that almost all categorization schemes are imperfect. I’m not a fan of identity politics (IP), but IP all too prevalent in society these days, and I admit that when I call someone “woke”, I’m guilty of using IP. So all of the following ideas are approximations and I’m sure imperfect. But I think demanding perfection in this context falls into the trap of making the perfect the enemy of the good.

==

There is at least one political spectrum that runs from the far left, to the moderate left, to the centrists, to the moderate right, to the far right. I would say that there are sets of ideas or beliefs commonly associated with each of these positions on the spectrum. For the sake of discussion, let’s say that for each stop on the spectrum we could enumerate 20 beliefs, most commonly associated with that stop.

Most people will not fall cleanly into a single stop on the spectrum. An individual might align with 15 of the 20 moderate left beliefs, but also believe a few far left ideas and a few conservative ideas. The same can be said of other domains. For example, we know that there is at least one religious spectrum that ranges from hard atheist to religious fundamentalism, with many stops in between.

In other words labels such as “far right” or “woke” or “hard atheist” or “religious fundamentalist” are almost always approximations of an individual, and every individual will believe some things that are inconsistent with whatever label we ascribe to them.

==



With all those caveats and disclaimers in place, below is a list of beliefs ascribed to the far-left / woke, in 2024. The more of them you agree with, the more “woke” you are. And again, no one is perfectly woke or perfectly far right or moderate. These are all rough approximations.

Far-left / woke beliefs:

1 - Free speech is less important than protecting people from being offended.
2 - Protecting personal liberties is less important than protecting people from being offended.
3 - The world’s people and societies should be viewed from an “oppressed vs. oppressor” perspective.
4 - White people have privilege, and are racist by default.
5 - White cultures are more colonist and imperialist than non-white cultures.
6 - An individual’s “lived experience” should have as much or more weight in public policy than broad statistical facts.
7 - There is an intersectional or oppression hierarchy and any criticism of the “most oppressed” people’s ideas or activism are by default “phobic” or “racist” in some way.
8 - Objectivity, critical thinking, and logic are tools of the oppressors.
9 - The DEI perspective and DEI initiatives must not be criticized.
10 - Diversity (in DEI), is based on race, gender, and sexuality more than on diversity of ideas.
11 - Inclusion (in DEI), is based on race, gender, sexuality, and conformity to woke beliefs, non-conformists are excluded.
12 - Equality (in DEI) means equality of outcomes, not equality of opportunities.
13 - The concerns of the most oppressed are more important than the concerns of the less oppressed.
14 - Cultural appropriation is a significant problem in society.
15- People’s immutable identity characteristics are more important than their behaviors.
16 - The only cultures that can be criticized are western cultures.

President Joe Biden Declares Easter Sunday As Transgender Day Of Visibility

The story appeared before the 1st Today is today though. BTW, I'm moving to a small village in France.

www.religiousforums.com

There is actually some confusion about who believes what. Here's a paper on econlib written by Arnold Kling that summarizes a work by Pluckrose and Lindsay called Cynical Theories:

"...Their book Cynical Theories seeks to explain how the mindset that underlies Social Justice activism emerged. That mindset has been given many other labels, including Woke and intersectionality, but in describing its intellectual framework, PL generally use the term postmodern Theory, with a capital T..."​

In it he points to a 2020 letter sent signed by many Stanford staff requesting that Stanford make certain changes. Here is a link to the letter on google docs: OPEN LETTER

He also points to the Smithsonian's Talking About Race virtual exhibit here: Talking About Race

************
What I think of when someone says 'Woke' is an attempt to retrain white people in USA to make equitable decisions (as stated in the the Smithsonian exhibit) instead of living like most people do (for ourselves). It usually appears as a message in films or in universities. Its related to ideas of reparation. The term originally appears in this context at the beginning of the duel Black Lives Matter initiatives. If I have a house should I sell it and give half to a black person? Should we just hire based upon merit or take color into consideration? It incorporates not just affirmative action but reparation.

But not long after black lives matter many one the left began to use "You ain't woke" widely to describe anyone on the right. Then the rightists yankee doodled it back calling anything on the left 'Woke'. Since then a new generation has begun to use the term.

Is it really connected to the hate speech laws in the EU or the blasphemy laws in the UK? Only by a fine thread vaguely related through its connection to postmodernism but is being called 'Woke' by a lot of youtubers in the slang sense. An example: many consider the DEI influence of Blackstone on video games to be woke but don't really use the term precisely when they say that. Many consider it connected to the imperatives to teach young children about sexual identities. It wasn't originally. Is it now? Mmm....I am not sure. That is a thing though. The left is trying to get young children read up on gender identies. Is it a woke thing? I think you can call it that and people get what you mean. I don't use the term.

 

[crossfire]

I don't think I'm making a bandwagon fallacy - how do you think I'm doing that?

To be clear: My argument is that hundreds of thousands or millions of people believe in the list provided in the OP. I don't think that makes them right, in fact, I think they're wrong.

But the point is that those millions of people ARE a part of the world's reality these days.

Do you have a reliable survey to support this assertion?