What is wrong with believing in both science and religion?

[Subduction Zone]

Serious question. Please help me understand by naming a few of those things that were made without an intelllgence behind them. Are you saying you and I were made without an intelligence behind it? Sorry but I think more of myself than that. Just because you cannot see or feel the creative force does not mean it does not exist. The basic problem with science.

Sand dunes, snowflakes, geodes, you and me.

It does not matter if you have an over inflated sense of worth, that does not mean that magic was used to make you.

By the way, if you want to claim that there is a "creative force" you put the burden of proof upon yourself. What you should be trying to learn is how evolution works. It is all but impossible to refute an idea based upon ignorance.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Serious question. Please help me understand by naming a few of those things that were made without an intelllgence behind them.

Clouds, mountains, rivers, snowflakes, diamonds, rubies, lightning, hailstones, . . . is that enough?

Are you saying you and I were made without an intelligence behind it?

Where in the process of biological reproduction are you saying an intelligence is involved? At least the way that I learned about it, biological reproduction is a completely spontaneous process that doesn't need any outside intervention. Put egg and sperm together and you get a complete genome. One cell divides into two cells. Cell division continues, and the genes in the genome cause difference cells to become different tissues. Where in this process are you saying an intelligence comes in and does something?

Sorry but I think more of myself than that. Just because you cannot see or feel the creative force does not mean it does not exist. The basic problem with science.

That's strange. Most creationists claim that the problem with science is that it uses speculation instead of what we can see and feel. If you think the basic problem with science is that it requires theories to be supported with evidence, then what benefit do you think we would have by removing this requirement?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

So you think sand and snow just started happening for no reason? Where did they come from? Where did the earth come from? Does it really make sense that somw cosmic dust floated together and made the planets? Why are the planets so different? If the same process created all the planets they should be similar in material. Science has never proven that pond scum became a living cell but because that is the only explanation that does not include God, they say it must be true. When you only look at answers that leave out God then you have few choices left. That does not prove it is true.

 

[Thief]

Science tells us how it works, religion tells us why.

I believe in God because of science

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

So you think sand and snow just started happening for no reason? Where did they come from? Where did the earth come from? Does it really make sense that somw cosmic dust floated together and made the planets? Why are the planets so different?

Do we have to figure out the ultimate origin of the universe in order to demonstrate that clouds produce lightning? Are clouds not the product of natural processes because each cloud is shaped differently?

Science has never proven that pond scum became a living cell but because that is the only explanation that does not include God, they say it must be true. When you only look at answers that leave out God then you have few choices left. That does not prove it is true.

Can you name a single time that a natural explanation has been replaced by a verified and demonstrable supernatural explanation? I can name millions of examples where natural explanations have replaced supernatural explanations, but I am unaware of a single example of the opposite.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The lack of a single example shows that science is not willing to even consider a religious explanation. Can you name one experiment ever conducted to explore the possibility that God had something to do with it? Science is so afraid of God that no one even considers it possible that a more powerful being is involved. Science wants humans to be the greatest beings in the universe. Sorry, they are wrong.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

As far as clouds and sand, yes the whoe idea is to figure out the ultimate origin of the universe. Billions of tons of dust just floating in space just happening to come together? Maybe a more powerful mind had something to do with it. Science likes the idea of dust because they can see dust. They can't see God.

 

[gnostic]

So you think sand and snow just started happening for no reason?

I am no meteorologist, so I won’t bother to explain snow to you.

I am also not a geologist, but I did a subject on geology and on soil testing for my civil engineering course.

Basically sand come from the particles or minerals of rocks. And over time these minerals break off from the rock, caused by rain and wind. It is called “weathering”.

It doesn’t require God or Creator to magically create sand, nor does it require a Designer to design sand.

Only ignorant and superstitious people required some sort of supernatural entities, like spirits to create something, when the evidences can be found in nature and in natural causes.

 

[Trailblazer]

Science tells us how it works, religion tells us why.

I don't see anything wrong with some unseen force creating the rules of the Universe even if he/she doesn't intervene. We can't create life or resurrect the dead; even our understandings of medical science is limited as people still die from cancer, AIDS, alzhiemers,etc.

Don't really know the Abrahamic view on things but in Hinduism they believed that the Sun and Moon were not planets and they discovered planets too. I believe in Hinduism also acknowledged that there were multiple galaxies which contained stars and planets we could not see. Hinduism also predicted matter and antimatter.

I'd like to know what the different religions predicted

The Baha’i Faith is the most recent Abrahamic religion. It is a Baha’i belief that science and religion are like two wings of a bird. We need both science and religion for humanity to survive and make progress. There is no contradiction between true religion and science. Any religion that is opposed to science is mere superstition.

“All religions teach that we must do good, that we must be generous, sincere, truthful, law-abiding, and faithful; all this is reasonable, and logically the only way in which humanity can progress.

All religious laws conform to reason, and are suited to the people for whom they are framed, and for the age in which they are to be obeyed..........

Now, all questions of morality contained in the spiritual, immutable law of every religion are logically right. If religion were contrary to logical reason then it would cease to be a religion and be merely a tradition. Religion and science are the two wings upon which man’s intelligence can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of materialism...”
Paris Talks, pp. 141-143

 

[Mock Turtle]

The lack of a single example shows that science is not willing to even consider a religious explanation. Can you name one experiment ever conducted to explore the possibility that God had something to do with it? Science is so afraid of God that no one even considers it possible that a more powerful being is involved. Science wants humans to be the greatest beings in the universe. Sorry, they are wrong.

Do you believe in the power of prayer? Like to test that to prove the existence of God? Science is not in the business of proving or disproving gods. Some scientists have posited such origins, but not many.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

The lack of a single example shows that science is not willing to even consider a religious explanation. Can you name one experiment ever conducted to explore the possibility that God had something to do with it? Science is so afraid of God that no one even considers it possible that a more powerful being is involved. Science wants humans to be the greatest beings in the universe. Sorry, they are wrong.

What experiment are they not considering? What evidence is science not considering? What testable hypotheses is science not considering?

Science does not consider unfalsifiable and untestable beliefs, and this is true of all unfalsifiable and untestable beliefs. The whole point of science is to require scientific hypotheses to be testable and falsifiable. If you can't produce a hypothesis that satisfies the requirements of science then you can hardly blame science for not considering what doesn't exist.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

As far as clouds and sand, yes the whoe idea is to figure out the ultimate origin of the universe. Billions of tons of dust just floating in space just happening to come together?

It's called "gravity". You should Google it.

Maybe a more powerful mind had something to do with it.

Maybe? How is that statement in anyway scientific?

Science likes the idea of dust because they can see dust. They can't see God.

Science can't see leprechauns, either.

 

[syo]

the orthodox christians believe god is fire. and fire is important in our world.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Science tells us how it works, religion tells us why.

I don't see anything wrong with some unseen force creating the rules of the Universe even if he/she doesn't intervene. We can't create life or resurrect the dead; even our understandings of medical science is limited as people still die from cancer, AIDS, alzhiemers,etc.

Don't really know the Abrahamic view on things but in Hinduism they believed that the Sun and Moon were not planets and they discovered planets too. I believe in Hinduism also acknowledged that there were multiple galaxies which contained stars and planets we could not see. Hinduism also predicted matter and antimatter.

I'd like to know what the different religions predicted

Science tries to explain both why and how natural phenomenon works.The moon is a satellite(orbits the earth), and the sun is a star. Neither are planets. Claiming that if Science can't cure for death or illnesses, does not mean that we are justified in believing that, "some unseen force creating the rules of the Universe even if he/she doesn't intervene". This is truly one small step in a faulty conclusion, and one giant step in cognitive ignorance. If we could live forever, we would see the end of all faith-based religions as we know it. It is only the permanency and our fear of death, that prompts our need for any made-up promise of an eternal life. It is our awareness of death(observational awareness) that prompts the creation of culture-specific religiosities, to placate our fear of death. I'm afraid that no amount of faith and belief will free us from the cycle of life and death, entropy, and our subjective perspective. The sooner we learn to accept this, the sooner we can learn the true value of what nature has to offer. The sooner we can learn to appreciate the true value of our own unique worth. And, the true nature of the human condition.

Belief is subjective and requires no evidence or proof. Science does not simply believe in the application or the principles of its postulates, but can prove them with the highest degree of certainty. There is nothing wrong in believing in the existence of superstitions, myths, the supernatural, or the existence of God(s). That is until you reach a certain level of mental maturity, and able to discern the difference between what is real and what is imaginary. To believe that both exists is simply incongruence and inconsonant with "rational valor". It is intellectually more honest to simply say, "I just don't know".

 

[viole]

Science tells us how it works, religion tells us why.

Can your religion tell me why that mountain I see from my window is in Switzerland and not New Jersey?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Polymath257]

The lack of a single example shows that science is not willing to even consider a religious explanation. Can you name one experiment ever conducted to explore the possibility that God had something to do with it? Science is so afraid of God that no one even considers it possible that a more powerful being is involved. Science wants humans to be the greatest beings in the universe. Sorry, they are wrong.

Can you describe an experiment that would test that proposition? If you can, please let someone know! it would be nice to have definitive proof one way or the other.

In particular, the experiment has to *clearly* distinguish between a universe where 'God had something to do with it' and a universe where 'no God had anything to do with it' via some observation where it is agreed upon *beforehand* by all parties that it would be enough to establish this distinction.

If you can come up with such an experiment, I am absolutely sure I could find funding to perform it.

Alternatively, come up with an experiment that, if the results are not what you expect, you would be convinced that no deity is involved. This is less likely to get funding because of the personal nature of the test. But we have to agree *beforehand* that it would be enough.

Alternatively, find an experiment which, if it turns out in a way that I do not expect, that *I* would be convinced that a deity *was* involved. Again, this agreement has to be made beforehand and be specific to the experiment proposed.

No scientist thinks humans are the greatest things in the universe. We are a small infestation on a minor rock orbiting a smallish star that is one of hundreds of billions *in our galaxy alone*. It is the religious that think humans have some special position in the grand scheme of things, with the designer of the universe becoming human just for us.

 

[Polymath257]

As far as clouds and sand, yes the whoe idea is to figure out the ultimate origin of the universe. Billions of tons of dust just floating in space just happening to come together? Maybe a more powerful mind had something to do with it. Science likes the idea of dust because they can see dust. They can't see God.

The cloud of dust and gas that formed the sun and planets (much more than a mere billions of tons, by the way) occurred long after the BB. About 9 billion years after. And it was far from being unique. Essentially every star you see formed in the same way.

And we see such clouds *today* and we see stars forming in *those* clouds of gas and dust *today*. The collapse due to gravity, which is a much more important force for large things than for small things (like anything below planet size). That this is possible is not in question. We see it happening in our galaxy. We see it happening in other galaxies. We know the basic physics which allows us to understand the dynamics of such clouds. No external mind is required.

 

[ronki23]

Can your religion tell me why that mountain I see from my window is in Switzerland and not New Jersey?

Ciao

- viole

SHOULD it be in Switzerland? Geography and Science tells you how mountains are formed

 

[viole]

SHOULD it be in Switzerland? Geography and Science tells you how mountains are formed

Yes, science answers the hows. But you told us that religion answers the whys.

I have no clue, since I am not religious and have no knowledge of that, as you said, and therefore I expect I can profit from your know-how. Oops, know-why, sorry.

So, why is that mountain there instead of somewhere else?

Your reply seems to indicate that you do not really need the whys when you have the hows. Is that so?

Ciao

- viole

 

[ronki23]

Yes, science answers the hows. But you told us that religion answers the whys.

So, why is that mountain there instead of somewhere else?

Your reply seems to indicate that you do not really need the whys when you have the hows. Is that so?

Ciao

- viole

Science tells you how mountains are formed and how the Swiss mountain is in Switzerland.

Science tells us how the Sun shines because of nuclear fusion. Science tells us how the Sun provides us both heat and light. Religion rightly tells us that we need the Sun to survive so according to religion the Sun is there for our existence

Science can't create life or make us live forever; even cloning requires a Mother's eggs or womb. We have incurable illnesses. Religion says it's because the soul outgrew the body