What is your opinion on Hare Krishna?

[Sha'irullah]

I recall reading Srila Prabupada's translated texts and they were quite sexist. For example....

"A woman should think of her husband as the Supreme Lord. Similarly, a disciple should think of the spiritual master as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, a sudra should think of a brahmana as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and a servant should think of his master as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this way, all of them will automatically become devotees of the Lord. In other words, by thinking this way, all of them will become Krsna conscious."

I am not sure how well that translation was and it's authenticity but I can pull out numerous ones like this that claim the husband SHOULD be treated as the master of his slave (the wife). All of these excerpts come from different sources also which adds some credibility to it. ISKCON in my view acts very 'cultish' which makes them appear quite scary from an outsider point of view. But I show them just as much love as I show anybody else.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I recall reading Srila Prabupada's translated texts and they were quite sexist. For example....

"A woman should think of her husband as the Supreme Lord. Similarly, a disciple should think of the spiritual master as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, a sudra should think of a brahmana as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and a servant should think of his master as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this way, all of them will automatically become devotees of the Lord. In other words, by thinking this way, all of them will become Krsna conscious."

I am not sure how well that translation was and it's authenticity but I can pull out numerous ones like this that claim the husband SHOULD be treated as the master of his slave (the wife). All of these excerpts come from different sources also which adds some credibility to it. ISKCON in my view acts very 'cultish' which makes them appear quite scary from an outsider point of view. But I show them just as much love as I show anybody else.

In traditional circles, a woman is told to serve her husband as a guide and master of the household. This is probably no different to traditional Islamic families, and you can see that various sects of Hinduism. God likes orderliness!

They opine that the guru serves God, the husband serves the guru, and the wife serves the husband, and the children serve the mother (and father; mother is considered the first guru of the children). This order is part of the larger system of varnashrama-dharma, and keeps society in good order. Whether this concept is archaic or not is up to debate, but it certainly isn't unheard of for a good Hindu husband to be the breadwinner, and a good Hindu wife, the breadmaker.

The difference with Gaudiya Vaishnavism and ISKCON versus other sects of Hinduism, is that women are:

1) given diksha (initiation)
2) given Gayatri mantra (traditionally the giving of the Brahmin thread was only for males)
3) given positions of pujarini (pujari, or the one who does aratis/pujas directly on the temple altar)
4) lecturer on the vyasasana (literally the 'seat of Vyasa', where people are instructed in the temple or otherwise on spiritual life)
5) Srila Prabhupada advocated legal prostitution as an inevitable part of life, and I truly believe that this idea is revolutionary where sex workers are treated like dogs in our legal systems.
6) Wear tilaka. Vaishnava tilaka was privy only to men in older circles... but in ISKCON and Gaudiya Vaishnavism, both women and men wear Vaishnava tilaka.

In many areas of Hinduism, these positions were restricted to men. In ISKCON and Gaudiya Vaishnavism, women have also been given a chance to become good Vaishnavas too!

Some ISKCONites can act fanatical, yes. But some aren't... I certainly hope I am not, because I still consider myself a Hare Krishna in most respects!

 

[Vinayaka]

Traditionally, in marriages, at least the ones I have seen, the worship as Lord thing goes both ways. She worships Him as Siva (or Visnu) and he worships her as Shakti. It doesn't mean like a slave-master concept, although some immature men have interpreted it that way. Their marriages often end in divorce.

 

[ratikala]

namaste :namaste

I recall reading Srila Prabupada's translated texts and they were quite sexist. For example....

allthough srila prabhupada's purports may come across as a little old fasioned , not so liberal as some other gurus , and it may appear that he is supporting male supremacy .
we should bear in mind the verse from 'sri siksastaka' which is recited daily by man and woman , shudra or brahmana alike , ....

"One who thinks himself lower than the grass , who is more tolerant than a tree , and who does not expect personal honour yet is allways prepaired to give all respects to others can easily chant the names of the lord ."

3rd sloka 'sri siksastaka'

it is concidered in spiritual life we all serve one another so equaly in household life we should be happy to serve one another , it is also the mans responcibility to serve the wife by providing and protecting the wife and the family , in vedic culture everyone has a responcibility towards each other .


this may make interesing reading ....

(Saat Vachan or Seven Promises) and Mantras of Saptapadi / Seven Steps / Seven Pheras (weding vows)
Both the Bride and the groom make Seven Vows to each other. These vows are in Sanskrit and are as follows:

SAPTAPADI PHERA 1:

Blessing for nourishing food and noble and respectful life.
PHERA 1: Bridegroom’s vow/promise:
“Om esha ekapadi bhava iti prathaman”.
I will love, cherish and provide for you and our children. You will support me and offer me food.
PHERA 1: Bride’s vow/promise:
“Dhanam dhanyam pade vadet”
I will honor you. I take upon myself the responsibilities of the house and children.

SAPTAPADI PHERA 2:

Pray for strength (physical and mental). Also pray for a peaceful and healthy life
PHERA 2: Bridegroom’s vow/promise:
“Om oorje jara dastayaha”
The groom promises to support his wife forever. Together we will defend our family and home.
PHERA 2: Bride’s vow/promise:
“Kutumburn rakshayishyammi sa aravindharam”
Bride vows to stand side by side with her husband in protecting their family and home.
SAPTAPADI PHERA 3:

Pray for prosperity and wisdom. Also pray for religious and spiritual strength and reaffirm their commitment to each other.
PHERA 3: Bridegroom’s vow/promise:
“Om rayas Santu joradastayaha”
The groom promises to work for the prosperity of his family. The groom also promises to be faithful to his wife and lead a spiritual life.
PHERA 3: Bride’s vow/promise:
“Tava bhakti as vadedvachacha”
The bride promises to be faithful to her husband and to support him.

SAPTAPADI PHERA 4:

Pray for the happiness of the couple
PHERA 4: Bridegroom’s vow/promise:
“Om mayo bhavyas jaradastaya ha”
The groom declares his good fortune at marrying his wife. The groom prays for a happy life and good children
PHERA 4: Bride’s vow/promise:
“Lalayami cha pade vadet.”
The bride affirms that she will do her best to please her husband.

SAPTAPADI PHERA 5:

Pray for happy children and happiness for all beings
PHERA 5: Bridegroom’s vow/promise:
“Om prajabhyaha Santu jaradastayaha”
Pray for the happiness and wellbeing of our family. May we have righteous and obedient children.
PHERA 5: Bride’s vow/promise:
“Arte arba sapade vadet”
I will trust and honor you. I will be with you always.

SAPTAPADI PHERA 6:

Pray that we live in perfect harmony. May we have a long and happy life
PHERA 6: Bridegroom’s vow/promise:
May we be happy together forever.
PHERA 6: Bride’s vow/promise:
“Yajne home shashthe vacho vadet”
I will always be by your side in your endeavors.

SAPTAPADI PHERA 7:

May we always be good friends
PHERA 7: Bridegroom’s vow/promise:
“Om sakhi jaradastayahga.”
With this last Phera we forever belong to each other.
PHERA 7: Bride’s vow/promise:
“Attramshe sakshino vadet pade.”
I am delighted to be your wife. May we be together forever.

I am not sure how well that translation was and it's authenticity but I can pull out numerous ones like this that claim the husband SHOULD be treated as the master of his slave (the wife). All of these excerpts come from different sources also which adds some credibility to it. ISKCON in my view acts very 'cultish' which makes them appear quite scary from an outsider point of view. But I show them just as much love as I show anybody else.

rather than the word slave , I hope that if one reads the weding vows I hope you will agree that it is a mutual agreement to love and support one another and make a good union for the rearing of children , and the support of the couples spiritual life .

from what I have experienced iskcon is no different and the marage vows are the same traditional vows respected allover india .and nowhere does it imply that the wife should be a slave .

I hope that this is of some reasurance :namaste

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Certainly, no more sexist than religions that came after them- Christianity and Islam. In religion, if you look for it, you will find it.

It is also good to remember that sexism gets more common in hinduism over the years not less. In the Vedas woman wrote them and were seen as teachers and sages.

 

[Maija]

It is also good to remember that sexism gets more common in hinduism over the years not less. In the Vedas woman wrote them and were seen as teachers and sages.

is this due to cultural practices, culture infiltrating its way into religion? Maybe this is why God keeps returning to us in different forms "no, you've got it wrong again.."

 

[Madhuri]

is this due to cultural practices, culture infiltrating its way into religion? Maybe this is why God keeps returning to us in different forms "no, you've got it wrong again.."

I think Hinduism was very much influenced by the Islamic conquest. Many of the Hindu traditions and culture that is similar to Islam and Christianity did not seem to exist before India was invaded. Even the idea that women are less equal to men is exactly what Islam says about women (that they should be obedient to their husbands and their husbands obedient to God).

This might not be entirely factual but it seems likely to me considering the pattern.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I think Hinduism was very much influenced by the Islamic conquest. Many of the Hindu traditions and culture that is similar to Islam and Christianity did not seem to exist before India was invaded. Even the idea that women are less equal to men is exactly what Islam says about women (that they should be obedient to their husbands and their husbands obedient to God).

This might not be entirely factual but it seems likely to me considering the pattern.

I agree... It was at least a speed up of sexism.

 

[mohinishaktidevi]

Does the prevalance of "Sati" indicate a sexist mandate even after the man is gone?

Was sati only done by brahmana caste women?

Has it ever been argued that woman that eagerly observed 'Sati' was brainwashed?

It seems a sort Hero worship type of obsession to do Sati.

Thought?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Does the prevalance of "Sati" indicate a sexist mandate even after the man is gone?

Was sati only done by brahmana caste women?

Has it ever been argued that woman that eagerly observed 'Sati' was brainwashed?

It seems a sort Hero worship type of obsession to do Sati.

Thought?

Brahmin women were forbidden from sati. I have heard it was done by Kshatriya women. It was never a common practice. To me it always seemed like behavior from warrior families.

I don't think a rational person would argue it was not sexist.