What is your opinion?

[Nimos]

As many are probably aware there are some political problems going on due to some guy burning the Quran in Denmark and Sweden, which have pissed off a lot of Muslims.

Just a quick sum up.
Many Muslim-majority countries have expressed outrage. Last week protesters set fire to Sweden's embassy in Iraq after learning police in Stockholm had given permission for more book burning.

The Danish government want to try to find ways to make it illegal to do something like that. Today a Turkish man attacked the Swedish consul with a pistol. The guy that burns the book is an idiot that just wants attention, that is basically his whole purpose.

I'm wondering where people stand on this?

Should it be illegal to burn holy books like the Quran or should one be free to do it?

If you think it should be illegal, would also think that it would be a valid claim for Hindus to demand that no one eats cows (General speaking, know there are different rules)?

If you want more info (Haven't watched it, but I think it sums it up):

 

[Heyo]

As many are probably aware there are some political problems going on due to some guy burning the Quran in Denmark and Sweden, which have pissed off a lot of Muslims.

Just a quick sum up.
Many Muslim-majority countries have expressed outrage. Last week protesters set fire to Sweden's embassy in Iraq after learning police in Stockholm had given permission for more book burning.

The Danish government want to try to find ways to make it illegal to do something like that. Today a Turkish man attacked the Swedish consul with a pistol. The guy that burns the book is an idiot that just wants attention, that is basically his whole purpose.

I'm wondering where people stand on this?

Should it be illegal to burn holy books like the Quran or should one be free to do it?

If you think it should be illegal, would also think that it would be a valid claim for Hindus to demand that no one eats cows (General speaking, know there are different rules)?

If you want more info (Haven't watched it, but I think it sums it up):

Since our way of life is the only valid, we should burn down embassies and murder ambassadors of countries who don't adhere to western standards like equality of women, free elections and rights to bodily autonomy.
/s

 

[Quintessence]

Two things to say:

1. Don't be a $#*^$
2. Live and let live; you to your ways, others to their ways

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

They talk about freedom of speech, but it is not easy for me to understand what it is that they believe themselves to be “saying” by kicking around, stamping on and setting fire to things of deep symbolic value to others in their community.

Are they wanting to tell us that they are big babies, with the legal right to throw tantrums before an audience? Because that’s one thing - and, perhaps it’s good that they show their true degree of understanding and maturity [toddler-level] in public. That way, we know the level of responsibility they can handle and needn’t risk mistaking them for sensible adults.

I cannot help wondering though, if they’re not instead inciting violence towards minorities in their society…
As in hate-“speech”.
Which there are laws against.
Even in Scandi.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Pope’s Reaction

 

[YmirGF]

They talk about freedom of speech, but it is not easy for me to understand what it is that they believe themselves to be “saying” by kicking around, stamping on and setting fire to things of deep symbolic value to others in their community.

Are they wanting to tell us that they are big babies, with the legal right to throw tantrums before an audience? Because that’s one thing - and, perhaps it’s good that they show their true degree of understanding and maturity [toddler-level] in public. That way, we know the level of responsibility they can handle and needn’t risk mistaking them for sensible adults.

I cannot help wondering though, if they’re not instead inciting violence towards minorities in their society…
As in hate-“speech”.
Which there are laws against.
Even in Scandi.

I'm surprised the authorities have not gone at this from a hate-speech angle. It's hard to put a happy face on any book burning.

 

[Rival]

It's paper and glue; if your faith can't withstand this I'm concerned. Burning books is also a much more symbolic way of doing something, rather than burning people or other such activities. I see no reason to burn any book, but it's relatively mild as far as things could have gone. Banning it is too far.

 

[Nimos]

They talk about freedom of speech, but it is not easy for me to understand what it is that they believe themselves to be “saying” by kicking around, stamping on and setting fire to things of deep symbolic value to others in their community.

Assuming you eat meat, would you stop eating it if the Hindus got upset or demanded you didn't? And if not why? Looking at it from a broader perspective.

Or said in another way, should anything be "holy", just because some people think so? By "holy" I mean shouldn't we respect vegans just as much, because that is what they believe in and if not, why?

 

[YmirGF]

Assuming you eat meat, would you stop eating it if the Hindus got upset or demanded you didn't? And if not why? Looking at it from a broader perspective.

Or said in another way, should anything be "holy", just because some people think so? By "holy" I mean shouldn't we respect vegans just as much, because that is what they believe in and if not, why?

You touch on an interesting point. Are all ideas worthy of consideration and respect? I say, "Nope, not by a long shot." To borrow an old expression, we should keep an open mind with ideas that come across our path, but not so open that our brain rolls out.

 

[sun rise]

To me this is a "fire in a crowded theater" situation. There is a limit to any right. We are free to think that some group are blithering idiots for believing in what is obviously evil crap, but we don't need to incite violence. Or to say it another way, RF has a rule against trolling and burning a book to me is trolling if not worse.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Assuming you eat meat, would you stop eating it if the Hindus got upset or demanded you didn't? And if not why? Looking at it from a broader perspective.

Or said in another way, should anything be "holy", just because some people think so? By "holy" I mean shouldn't we respect vegans just as much, because that is what they believe in and if not, why?

Whatever was of great value to you -if I knew what that was- I would not in your presence kick at it, stamp on it and set fire to it, no.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Rival]

To me this is a "fire in a crowded theater" situation. There is a limit to any right. We are free to think that some group are blithering idiots for believing in what is obviously evil crap, but we don't need to incite violence. Or to say it another way, RF has a rule against trolling and burning a book to me is trolling if not worse.

In what way is book burning violence? If Jews burned Mein Kampf would that be violence?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

In what way is book burning violence? If Jews burned Mein Kampf would that be violence?

It’s the context. Nazis burning the Torah, for example

 

[Rival]

It’s the context. Nazis burning the Torah, for example

So book burning is alright as long as we're on the same ideological side of the book burners?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

So book burning is alright as long as we're on the same ideological side of the book burners?

Personally, I would not burn anything I thought of great value to you in your presence, no. But you asked what was violent about burning books and I said, it’s all about the context in which it’s done.

 

[Rival]

Personally, I would not burn anything I thought of great value to you in your presence, no. But you asked what was violent about burning books and I said, it’s all about the context in which it’s done.

But what or who determines that context and how? The NT has been used by some Christians to back up their antisemitism, so should we allow Jews to burn it, or do we respect the Christians to whom it's holy? I believe these arguments are fruitless. If you want to burn a book burn it. I'm going to presume it is your own property.

 

[ChristineM]

Burning books is really rather sad. Burning books to incite reaction is really just pathetic

 

[exchemist]

It's paper and glue; if your faith can't withstand this I'm concerned. Burning books is also a much more symbolic way of doing something, rather than burning people or other such activities. I see no reason to burn any book, but it's relatively mild as far as things could have gone. Banning it is too far.

I agree.

But I think there are other ways to discourage such deliberately provocative acts, for instance in the UK there is an offence of "breach of the peace" and one can be arrested for behaviour likely to cause this.

In the present Swedish case there are suggestions that Russia may have been encouraging this type of thing, to prevent Sweden being accepted by Turkey into NATO.

 

[exchemist]

Pope’s Reaction

Hard to disagree, but this does not address the trickier question of what the law should say about such a case.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

But what or who determines that context and how? The NT has been used by some Christians to back up their antisemitism, so should we allow Jews to burn it, or do we respect the Christians to whom it's holy? I believe these arguments are fruitless. If you want to burn a book burn it. I'm going to presume it is your own property.

Here’s my question to you: why would I take something (anything) of great value to you, go up to the front of your house and set that thing on fire? What is it that I am expressing -that I am “free to express”- by doing that? And how is doing it not an act of aggression towards you and your person?