What Is Your Personal Agenda?

[A Vestigial Mote]

You've tried to be very cryptic in your response, giving generalizations instead of specifics. You're hiding something.

Your agenda is to make people become atheists? So you have this overwhelming feeling that everyone should be just like you, because you're right?

I don't even like the term "atheist" to be honest. I strive for people to realize labels in the religious sense are simply extra baggage that separates us into camps of "us" vs. "them." - and about that I do believe that I am "right", I don't mind admitting it - and I couldn't care less what you think about it. In the end, I'd rather there not even be an "atheist" label or group. I want there to just be people... people who aren't driven by any more make-believe than is "necessary". Religious make-believe is in no way necessary.

You don't like it when others complain about what you are doing? Are they complaining about what they feel is a lack of morality on your part?

Haha... leave it to a believer's mind to jump straight into the gutter. No, not immoral in the least. As I stated, there are people in my life who seem to feel they have an inherent right to my free time. That if I take that time, to be alone, to simply be away from people, that I am committing some wrong against them. That's where the guilt comes in. I feel no guilt... but apparently I am supposed to... even as the people who surreptitiously and passive-aggressively demand this time would deny any part of this being their intent.

 

[bobhikes]

You believe that you do more of the work yet she believes that she does more. Only one of you is correct. So, one of you is justifying doing less because of an issue, probably something that happened to them in the past that has caused some trauma.

You both have self esteem issues but that's no different than any other people? Correct, but not everyone realizes and admits to their self esteem, fear, and control issues.

You believe all people are equal in total but different in parts? Yes. I believe that all people are of equal value to God but not equal in ability.

On a side note, to become really successful at trading stocks you have to do a great deal of research and when the market is climbing at full speed ahead like it is now it can give you a very false sense of competence. I would recommend going with a reputable mutual fund company, sticking entirely with index funds, something based upon the S+P 500, like Vanguards 500 Index Fund, put it in and leave it alone.

Trading stocks, I explained it to my friend whose a financial advisor like this. Since 18 I've been spending 500 to 750 dollars a year on lottery and never won anything. I put 500 in an account adding 25 dollars a month and stopped playing lottery. I can afford to learn the hard way.

 

[Super Universe]

Yes, just some ideas. Just ideas we took someone else's word for and never actually look into it for ourselves. If you've tested something for yourself and found it to be true, then good.



I don't really have a need to believe in these things. If they do exist great, if not, I'm ok with that too. I'm just a little more suspicious when I have a need for something to be true. This almost automatically creates a bias. It's just usually a little easier to see things clearly if you avoid as much as you can your own bias.



No, it's more that I realize how unreliable personal experience can be. So if I'm going to accept something as true I like to be able to validate it beyond my own personal experience. If I'm going to claim something is true I'd like to be able to prove it to them scientifically first.



I'm here because I like folks to question what I accept as true. Unfortunately I still take some truths as granted. Until someone else comes along to question some statement I made I might go along accepting it's truth without question. It helps to get a different perspective on these things.

Family and friends often feel hurt if you question their truths. So it's just easier on a forum where there is some anonymity.

We always take some ones "word" for things. You trust the engineer and workers when you drive over a bridge, enter a tall building or get on an elevator. You trust the school teacher who is teaching your children. You trust the strangers on the street that they won't kill you. You trust your neighbors won't rob you blind every time you leave the home. You trust others to grow and prepare food for you, provide you with clothes, electricity, gas.

Is there one piece of information or any amount of information that makes you correct?

Would you agree that people believe what they WANT to believe?

Having a need for something to be true, or not true, creates bias? What person on the planet has no bias?

You realize that personal experience can be unreliable? You can't be everywhere at every moment in time. If you have to be there when things happen then that leaves everything open to your criticism. Were you in New York City for 9/11? Are you a member of a conspiracy forum? Why did you pick a religious forum as a place to come to? Doesn't that mean that religion is more important issue to you than other issues?

You say that family and friends feel hurt if you question their beliefs? Usually they get very angry but that's part of this topic, why do they get angry? If they really wanted to know truth then they should appreciate you for pointing out a belief that doesn't make sense but they don't feel appreciation. The reason is because people don't really want truth, they want information that supports what they want to believe in.

 

[Super Universe]

What are you a psychoanalyst?

Something like that.

 

[Super Universe]

I don't even like the term "atheist" to be honest. I strive for people to realize labels in the religious sense are simply extra baggage that separates us into camps of "us" vs. "them." - and about that I do believe that I am "right", I don't mind admitting it - and I couldn't care less what you think about it. In the end, I'd rather there not even be an "atheist" label or group. I want there to just be people... people who aren't driven by any more make-believe than is "necessary". Religious make-believe is in no way necessary.


Haha... leave it to a believer's mind to jump straight into the gutter. No, not immoral in the least. As I stated, there are people in my life who seem to feel they have an inherent right to my free time. That if I take that time, to be alone, to simply be away from people, that I am committing some wrong against them. That's where the guilt comes in. I feel no guilt... but apparently I am supposed to... even as the people who surreptitiously and passive-aggressively demand this time would deny any part of this being their intent.

Exactly correct. It's not that religions inherent design is to separate people into groups. They all want everyone to join their beliefs. The problem is the individuals who then start to feel that they're belief's are better and the truth and others beliefs are wrong. We like to feel better about ourselves and the way we do it is to put others beliefs and actions down.

You just want there to be people who are not driven by make believe? But you're doing the exact same thing they are doing, trying to convince another that you are right. If we're talking math or science, we can isolate things and prove them. No one can prove or disprove God. Even Jesus couldn't do it.

I'm definitely a believer, not in religion though. And, actually, I didn't want this to become a religious discussion at all but rather a discussion about control freaks in our society and how we all have issues that we hide from others.

 

[Super Universe]

Trading stocks, I explained it to my friend whose a financial advisor like this. Since 18 I've been spending 500 to 750 dollars a year on lottery and never won anything. I put 500 in an account adding 25 dollars a month and stopped playing lottery. I can afford to learn the hard way.

Putting money every month into an investment is called dollar cost averaging. It's the recommended way of investing because you don't try to predict the ups and downs, you just invest and let it ride.

I actually go against that recommendation. Save up and wait for corrections (a correction is a drop in the market of 10%) to invest.

 

[Nakosis]

We always take some ones "word" for things. You trust the engineer and workers when you drive over a bridge, enter a tall building or get on an elevator. You trust the school teacher who is teaching your children. You trust the strangers on the street that they won't kill you. You trust your neighbors won't rob you blind every time you leave the home. You trust others to grow and prepare food for you, provide you with clothes, electricity, gas.

Exactly, and that doesn't always go well does it.

Is there one piece of information or any amount of information that makes you correct?

Not necessarily one piece but when folks accept the proof I provide, then I feel that justifies my claim.

Would you agree that people believe what they WANT to believe?

Sure and I have no problem with that as long as they have no expectation of others accepting that belief when they have no proof to offer.

Having a need for something to be true, or not true, creates bias? What person on the planet has no bias?

Well, everyone has bias, but we can do our best to eliminate any personal bias we might be harboring towards a specific idea at least. Where we have knowledge that we can justify through proof, great. Where we lack knowledge, accept that and realize any preconceived ideas are just that, preconceived.

You realize that personal experience can be unreliable? You can't be everywhere at every moment in time. If you have to be there when things happen then that leaves everything open to your criticism. Were you in New York City for 9/11? Are you a member of a conspiracy forum? Why did you pick a religious forum as a place to come to? Doesn't that mean that religion is more important issue to you than other issues?

Leaves everything open to question. Until someone brings some truth to the table to end those questions.

This is not only a religious forum. There are other ideas besides God and religion discussed here. I've questioned other truths besides religion on RF.

You say that family and friends feel hurt if you question their beliefs? Usually they get very angry but that's part of this topic, why do they get angry? If they really wanted to know truth then they should appreciate you for pointing out a belief that doesn't make sense but they don't feel appreciation. The reason is because people don't really want truth, they want information that supports what they want to believe in.

Your pretty much supporting what I said so I'll just agree with your agreement with what I said.

 

[Nakosis]

I think I'm smarter than average but I have 5 years of college. I like to debate things a bit too much. It pisses me off when people keep themselves simple and have a shallow understanding of things. To me, you don't have the right to form an opinion if you haven't put in the time and work to learn about an issue. I'm excessively afraid of spiders, just the creepy ones, not daddy long legs. I'm excessively afraid/angry about being controlled by anyone. I really don't like other peoples stupid rules. I think most people are inherently selfish.

Seems all normal to me.

 

[Super Universe]

Exactly, and that doesn't always go well does it.



Not necessarily one piece but when folks accept the proof I provide, then I feel that justifies my claim.



Sure and I have no problem with that as long as they have no expectation of others accepting that belief when they have no proof to offer.



Well, everyone has bias, but we can do our best to eliminate any personal bias we might be harboring towards a specific idea at least. Where we have knowledge that we can justify through proof, great. Where we lack knowledge, accept that and realize any preconceived ideas are just that, preconceived.



Leaves everything open to question. Until someone brings some truth to the table to end those questions.

This is not only a religious forum. There are other ideas besides God and religion discussed here. I've questioned other truths besides religion on RF.



Your pretty much supporting what I said so I'll just agree with your agreement with what I said.

Taking someones word for things doesn't always go well? So you think things should always be perfect?

You have proof that God does not exist? I will look at your evidence. Please post it.

You accept that people believe what they want to believe? So you're accepting that you believe what YOU WANT to be true. What I would like to get at is why you WANT to believe that God does not exist.

We can do our best to eliminate any personal bias we might have? Wouldn't that require us to, at first, admit to it?

What would it take to prove God to you?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It pisses me off when people keep themselves simple and have a shallow understanding of things.

Like trying to shoehorn people into archetypes?

 

[Super Universe]

Like trying to shoehorn people into archetypes?

If the shoe fits is it still shoehorning?

 

[Nakosis]

Taking someones word for things doesn't always go well? So you think things should always be perfect?

No, in fact I think I implied that I don't expect them too. I'm grateful when they do and not very disappointed when they don't

You have proof that God does not exist? I will look at your evidence. Please post it.

I'm not claiming God doesn't exist. I'm just saying I haven't been convinced that God does. I'm an atheist so I'm not supporting any preconceived ideas about God. That way if a God ever goes about proven themselves I can be unbiased.

You accept that people believe what they want to believe? So you're accepting that you believe what YOU WANT to be true. What I would like to get at is why you WANT to believe that God does not exist.

I don't care if God exists or not. Either way is fine by me.

We can do our best to eliminate any personal bias we might have? Wouldn't that require us to, at first, admit to it?

Exactly, part of the reason for going on forums. Sometimes other folks can show you your bias.

What would it take to prove God to you?

God would first have to be falsifiable. You'd have to conceive of a way to disprove God.

Something like if God doesn't exist then X, Y or Z could never occur. Then show that X, Y or Z never occurs no matter how many ways you try to make X, Y, or Z happen.

Just to add a bit more claim that if you were to jump off a cliff that would normally kill anyone however you, because of your special relationship with God will be saved. Then show that no matter how many times you jump off and even show that someone else who has this special relationship can also jump off the cliff any number of times, any number of ways and always be saved, I think that would pretty much impress anyone.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What is your personal agenda?

We all have an agenda. You probably won't like to admit to it. Your control drama is a closely guarded secret that you never want exposed. You probably don't even realize it but I guarantee that others know what your "agenda" or control drama is. We usually have many but certain ones we use more than others.

Do you want control of all the money?

Are you excessively afraid of certain things?

Are you afraid of being in charge so you do almost nothing?

Is your relationship fair and equal?

Are you lazy?

Do you have self esteem issues that cause you to over eat?

Do you have self esteem issues that cause you to over criticize others and put them down in your own mind just to feel better about yourself?

Do you think you are better than others at anything?

The Talker

There is a man who talks and talks and talks. He will talk for 5 hours about himself and when he gets tired he turns on the tv as if to say "there is nothing you can tell me that I would find interesting". When others try to say something this man usually interrupts them with a raised voice to get back the attention just so he can tell another boring story about himself. He doesn't know any jokes or funny stories. He doesn't know very much about his "friends" because he doesn't listen. He's never done much, never been anywhere, and only has a high school education but he thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

The Control Freak

There is a woman who is a control freak. Her first husband worked while she stayed home and laid on the couch and smoked cigarettes all day long. She had total control of the money, the house, and then the kids. She would fix cereal for the kids for breakfast, lunch was peanut butter and jelly, then when her husband came home from work he would prepare a full meal, oh, and he stopped at the grocery store on the way home because she's too lazy to go to the store.

After five years of marriage the woman cheated on her husband because there was nothing more that she could get out of him. She married the other guy but divorced him after ten years because he was cheating on her. She hit the bars, met another guy, got married because she has to have something to control but he turned out to be more of a control freak than she is and now she has no power over him at all. She is absolutely miserable but afraid of what people will think of her if she gets divorced a third time and she doesn't want to grow old alone.

The Woman Who Is Afraid of Any Responsibility

There is a 31 year old woman with blue hair. She is very over weight. She has never had a job. She sits at home while her husband works all day. They do not have children because the woman is afraid of any responsibility at all. She is on the computer all day long except she gets off when her husband comes home so they can go and get fast food. Neither one of them can cook. He works, she has total control of the money. They live in a small apartment that they've lived in for 10 years. She doesn't want a house or her own vehicle. She does not go outside very often.

The Paranoid Man

There is a paranoid man. He is most afraid of germs, being murdered, being sued, and what people think of him. He is very shallow. He thinks it's much more important to appear to be successful to complete strangers than be a good husband and father.

As a child this paranoid man would warn the other kids when playing to be careful about getting cut with rusted metal because it causes lockjaw. Lockjaw is tetanus, something everyone is vaccinated for.

This paranoid man controls the money, the home, the vehicles, and is afraid to touch or hug his twin girls because he thinks someone might think he is a child molester.

This man has cheated on his wife multiple times and leaves sometimes for as long as a week. He gets a new car every year because he wants people to think he is successful. He had all the carpet torn out of his house when his wife was 8 months pregnant with twins because he knew the kids would spill things on the carpet and it sinks under the carpet so you can't clean it all up. He thinks it would get moldy and you would get sick often and not know what was causing it. His children had to learn to walk on tile floors. The front door, the security door, the rear door, and all the windows have to be locked all day long so no one can come in and murder him. The alarm has to be set every night. The vehicles have to be car washed once a week. He is an alcoholic because when he is drunk he is not afraid so he tries to stay drunk. He is a police officer and after work he hits the bars and drives home drunk. He blames the stress of the job but won't admit that he has always been excessively afraid.



What is your agenda or control drama? Do you even know?

What are your fears? Are they reasonable?

I'll go first:

I think I'm smarter than average but I have 5 years of college. I like to debate things a bit too much. It pisses me off when people keep themselves simple and have a shallow understanding of things. To me, you don't have the right to form an opinion if you haven't put in the time and work to learn about an issue. I'm excessively afraid of spiders, just the creepy ones, not daddy long legs. I'm excessively afraid/angry about being controlled by anyone. I really don't like other peoples stupid rules. I think most people are inherently selfish.

My agenda is freedom: Identity, financial, and freedom from depending on the government to pay for my over $4,000 medications and treatments. A good education and the same passion I get from volunteering but you'd have to convince me to get a paycheck for it since it feels like it invalidates the purpose of service.

All the things you listed sounds negative. Do you think people have positive agendas?

 

[Super Universe]

My agenda is freedom: Identity, financial, and freedom from depending on the government to pay for my over $4,000 medications and treatments. A good education and the same passion I get from volunteering but you'd have to convince me to get a paycheck for it since it feels like it invalidates the purpose of service.

All the things you listed sounds negative. Do you think people have positive agendas?

Do I think people have positive agenda's? I think people "think" they have positive agenda's.

For example, a person might dedicate themselves to raising their children in the hopes that if their children are good people then their life had some meaning.

Or, a person might become a priest and tell themselves and others that they are doing God's work when the truth is that they did it because they think that going to heaven is assured if you are a priest.

Essentially, I think humans are primitive creatures. We are controlled by primitive impulses, we want what we want. Our actions in response to those primitive impulses is, however, complicated and often hides the real reason. We don't want others to know we are selfish.

Another example, the CEO of St. Judes Children's Hospital earns $1m a year. He probably thinks he's helping children with cancer when in reality he's stealing money that is meant to help children with cancer.

 

[Deidre]

Hmmm...probably to just be at peace, with myself and everyone in my life. I'm close, but it seems like I'll always just be ...close. lol

 

[SomeRandom]

Do I want control of all the money? I would like to control all of the money I personally earn. But you know, taxes and bills and so forth. Oh well. As long as I have enough to buy all my useless crap and eat, I is happy.

Am I excessively afraid of certain things? Yes. But being an Australian I consider that approach to be a survival mechanism.

Am I afraid of being in charge so you do almost nothing? Not per se. I'm not in charge, nor am I afraid to be. And even if I were and then put in charge, I'd still step up. Because you can't let fear hold you back. Just got to grit your teeth and do it.

Is your relationship fair and equal? Yeah.

Are you lazy? Oh god yes.

Do you have self esteem issues that cause you to overeat? Nope.

Do you have self esteem issues that cause you to over criticize others and put them down in your own mind just to feel better about yourself? Nope. Though I am quite snarky.

Do you think you are better than others at anything? Not particularly.

 

[Super Universe]

Hmmm...probably to just be at peace, with myself and everyone in my life. I'm close, but it seems like I'll always just be ...close. lol

I should have been more clear. Your personal agenda is not your goal in life, it is the hidden way you manipulate others in order to satisfy your need for control.

 

[Super Universe]

Do I want control of all the money? I would like to control all of the money I personally earn. But you know, taxes and bills and so forth. Oh well. As long as I have enough to buy all my useless crap and eat, I is happy.

Am I excessively afraid of certain things? Yes. But being an Australian I consider that approach to be a survival mechanism.

Am I afraid of being in charge so you do almost nothing? Not per se. I'm not in charge, nor am I afraid to be. And even if I were and then put in charge, I'd still step up. Because you can't let fear hold you back. Just got to grit your teeth and do it.

Is your relationship fair and equal? Yeah.

Are you lazy? Oh god yes.

Do you have self esteem issues that cause you to overeat? Nope.

Do you have self esteem issues that cause you to over criticize others and put them down in your own mind just to feel better about yourself? Nope. Though I am quite snarky.

Do you think you are better than others at anything? Not particularly.

Paying taxes is necessary. I guess it is being controlled to a degree, we're all controlled to some degree. I'm more concerned with people who are controlling in their relationships.

What things are you excessively afraid of?

You say you are lazy, do you know why?

 

[SomeRandom]

Paying taxes is necessary. I guess it is being controlled to a degree, we're all controlled to some degree. I'm more concerned with people who are controlling in their relationships.

"Controlling." Ehhh, annoying maybe. I dunno about controlling.

What things are you excessively afraid of?

Spiders, snakes, creepy crawlies. In fairness, most of those can kill you where I live.

You say you are lazy, do you know why?

A number of reasons. My blood pressure sometimes drops a little, rendering me lethargic. I tend to stay up most of the night, meaning I am tired during the day. Mostly I think it's because I'm a spoilt brat living a relatively comfortable suburbian (ish) lifestyle in the West.

 

[Quetzal]

What is your personal agenda?

Same thing we do every night, Pinkie. Try to take over the world!