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What is your take on theistic evolution?
- Thread starter IsmailaGodHasHeard
- Start date
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
That's called process theology, not theistic evolution.
I think theistic evolution is the only reasonable position available for a theist.
not nom
Well-Known Member
and you know that how, exactly? if you don't know for sure, what makes you seek such heights of hybris?
test everything. don't just parrot things because you think that gets you brownie points. it doesn't.
Actually, Newton strongly believed in a Creator and Lawgiver responsible for the law of gravity.
And yet that makes no difference whatsoever on the merits of his scientific findings. It is no different with Evolution.
cablescavenger
Well-Known Member
My take is that evolution is a fact and irrefutable. The drivers for evolutionary change are still under debate, but nonetheless it is a fact.
If you acknowledge this fact, then it must fit in with your world view.
Some people have taken evolution to have been part of the design of their God and rejoice at the beaty life provides for and the mechanism and laws which their God has put in place; in which case they accept Theist Evolution.
Some people believe it to be a natural process without God, and appreciate the natural beauty of this world and the mechanisms that have developed which enable evolution.
Some people do not accept evolution, and take literally from their belief which were developed many centuries ago, before the introduction of science as we know it today, and for them a spinal column is enough, and they can throw away that bit at the top, which sits inside the cranium.
indomitable snowman
New Member
Is it so hard to believe that God may have placed an evolutionary processes in His creation so that it could adapt itself to changing circumstances and to other parts of creation reacting with each other and their environments. When He commanded Light to appear it is the Light of Life itself where all other forms of life would find time itself to exist in and adapt to the various environments He had created for them. Like a good wine takes time to evolve into a great one.
If by that you mean someone who believes in God but believes that God had no involvement in evolution then I take your point. That would also be a reasonable position for a theist.
(is that what you meant?)
RedOne77
Active Member
Theistic evolution is simply the position that evolution is real and so is God, specifically a theistic God. Evolution, at its most basic form, is changes in the DNA of populations through mutation and natural selection. This is seen both in the lab and in the wild, hardly anybody disputes this anymore it is so well documented and the effects of this have been known in ancient times dating back to the domestication of animals.
Now the big question I see, is how this system that we know exists works within the framework of theism. The way I see it, is if you can reconcile a theistic God with all the harmful mutations we see (essentially the problem of evil) that truly happen at random (at least statistically) that cause tons of suffering and death, than there is nothing stopping you from accepting all of evolution short of specific theistic beliefs - i.e. the Bible is literal and evil is caused by the fall.
After some real research you'll notice that evolution fits nicely with the physical data, and is anything but a failure in the scientific realm. At this point you have 2 basic options as a theist, you can forgo the scientific data as either scientists have no idea what they're doing or we don't have the full picture that shows just how wrong evolution is, or you can accept the science and view specific theistic beliefs as wrong, incomplete, irrelevant (i.e. Genesis is about the relationship between God and Man, not about natural history) and so forth. The second option will bring you to theistic evolution.
Theistic evolution is not incompatible with science or evolution; however theistic evolution is not a scientific position but a theological one - similar to theistic gravity as expressed by Newton, although the theory of gravity Newton developed doesn't address God's role.
tomteapack
tomteapack
Theistic evolution is nothing but the acceptance of the evolutionary theory. Most of the Christians and in fact most religious people in the world accept this.It is only small sects in the USA that have a problem with evolution.
I agree. Good science would lead you to God. But people don't understand who they are messing with when it comes to God. People believe that they can't possibly be being deceived by the 'scientific' conclusions they come to. God has stated "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent" To see things in perspective one has to understand that we live in a world that is in rebellion against the God who created it. God is in sovereign control. Man only knows what God will let him. God has said "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie".
You can't help people who hate God.
You know this how exactly? Consider your accusations. I am not prideful. The only thing I have pride in is God who created all things and is Lord over all. When he says something, I take it as the truth. I base what I say off of what he has said. Parroting for brownie points, No. Standing behind the words of an infinite Creator who cannot lie, Yes.
not nom
Well-Known Member
try to read what I actually said: "what makes you seek such heights of hybris". and of course you are proud, extremely so, and in god's name no less. what's worse, you are proud of being ignorant, which is the worst, the most lethal kind pride comes in.
where exactly did god say evolution is a lie? that would be funny, seeing how evolution is a fact.
how do you think domestication and breeding of animals works? or plants even (not so much the domestication as the breeding)?
where do you think dogs come from, and their various breeds? (hint: wolves)
god may not lie, but that doesn't mean your understanding of something is the word of god. if you read "god created stuff" as "evolution does not occur", then that's your own problem. that's just you making up stuff the text doesn't say. and you probably feel justified in doing that because you see others do it, who gloat about it as well. yet, if a blind person leads a blind person...
so? why stop with evolution? why not give that speech to someone who eats healthy, or doesn't leave toddlers unsupervised? "oh, you think you're soooo smart, well god has news for you". well no. that just seems hateful and stupid. being intellectually lazy and foolish is nothing to be proud of, and god is their creator as well as yours. you don't get to take verses out of context and use them for whatever just because you don't get evolution.
god also stated that seeking wisdom is the way to life, that his people perish for lack of knowledge. paul said you should test everything, instead of making stuff about heavenly beings. as in, "satan made evolution up because I don't understand it"... you see, if evolution indeed IS a fact, that means you just called god satan, heh. that is all, you didn't refute evolution, you just shot your own foot. I guess that's why you are not able to look into the factuality of evolution, you painted yourself into a corner.
god claims to be self-evident in creation, so let us look at creation. unless you are of course under such a strong delusion that you are not able to do that. "can't help people who hate god", eh? stones and glass houses, stones and glass houses...
Genesis chapter 1.
One cannot call evolution a fact. He would have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that billions of years have existed. God has never made a claim to have used evolution. I am well aware of the claims that are made as to how people believe they can prove the time.
I understand that there are a lot of questions that beg answers. Many things that I would like to know but am ignorant of. Yes, I choose to go solely off of what I believe God has taught me in his word. My hope is that I am following the right spirit who teaches me what the scriptures mean. That doesn't mean that I know nothing about evolution. I grew up an evolutionist. I converted.
I stated that I believe that it is from Satan. You have come to the defense of your belief. I understand that. I used to defend evolution myself. I defend my own beliefs. Paul did say to prove all things. You are right. In the context he was speaking about prophecy. There are false prophets and we are to prove them and to hold fast to that which is good. When Paul talked about science, he said that we should avoid oppositions of science falsely so called. So in essence he was telling us to examine the science and avoid that which is false. So the bible declares that there will be false science.
The bible teaches that most people who live will die and suffer eternal consequences, yet evolution is widely accepted as fact. Another reason I believe the bible and evolution are incompatible. In scripture, everything is created and man rebels. 1640 years later God destroys the world by a flood. God then begins his work with Israel beginning with faithful Abraham. 2400 years after the flood Israel kills their own messiah. It has been 2000 years since Christ has come. The church is completely corrupt and filled with people who have no desire to follow Jesus but only to have a Savior. If the trend or cycle is repeating yet again, I should be able to expect that God will end this age soon.
Hate me for what I believe and who I am. Belittle me all you want. I'm sure Noah didn't have many friends either. I know Christ didn't.
I wish you well. I hope that you succeed mightily in your search for truth. I pray that God make you prosper in that you do. Have a nice day.
not nom
Well-Known Member
Do you mean that god created all things, and that you take that literally? that's your problem right there. can you prove it "beyond a shadow of a doubt" it means what you think it means?
what? you are mistaking two things, evolution as explanation for the first life, and evolution as something that is currently going on.
all that is required is a poodle. there's your proof. or a thousand other domesticated and bred animals. or resistance developing in bacteria. that IS beyond the shadow of a doubt. yet you deny it.. ? there is no place we can proceed in a discussion from there.
medicine cannot really afford such delusions, prejudice kills. the guy who found out that washing your hands before surgery, uh, helps a bit, was shunned because the doctors at the time thought it offensive to think the hands of a gentleman could be dirty.
do you think dinosaur fossils are just some joke? what kind of god would play such games? you see, I have trouble believing that... in that way I am biased as well. IF god exists, I simply refuse to believe he's petty, not very bright and a bit mad. so all interpretations that would imply that, I treat with skepticism.
so? god claims to have created everything, and to be self-evident in creation. and god surely seems to use selection, see the parable of the seed and the rocky/fertile ground etc.
that doesn't mean you know anything about it. if you consider evolution a belief, that kinda indicates you never really understood it.
no you don't. it's not a belief, it's a fact. I ask you again, how do you explain domesticated animals, or bacterial resistance that develops before our eyes, in ways we can observe?
yeah. but how do you find out what is false and what isn't? test it. to misrepresent evolution in order to refute it, that's false science right there. I'm not saying you're doing that, but that surely is being done.
what? I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I don't think god is scared of any question a human could ask, or any truthful discovery a human could make. otherwise, that's not god, but just the voice of a control freak who wants to HAVE creation, and own it. god is way greater and way more gracious than that, IMHO.
why would I? why would you want me to?
oh come on, don't take it so personal. I just wouldn't buy, uhm, a biologist's set from you or something. and you wouldn't buy a bible from me, so we're even ^^
thanks, and likewise
Where's the hate?
What does friendship have to do with anything? I disagree with my friends on numerous issues; one of them is an atheist.
Out of curiosity, why do you think this?