"What Jesus REALLY meant was ...."

[John1.12]

Then why does Jesus refer to God the Father as "our Father"? "And why does He refer to humanity as his brothers? Are you saying God the Father isn't "the Father" at all? The Bible tells us that we are God's offspring and that He is the Father of our spirits. God the Father, not Jesus. Jesus created our world. His Father created us.

Jesus never said " our Father " When he prayed . Which bible verses say what your claiming? ( with context)

 

[John1.12]

Then why does Jesus refer to God the Father as "our Father"? "And why does He refer to humanity as his brothers? Are you saying God the Father isn't "the Father" at all? The Bible tells us that we are God's offspring and that He is the Father of our spirits. God the Father, not Jesus. Jesus created our world. His Father created us.

Your referring to Mormon doctrines not Christianity or the bible . And no God was not once a man prior to becoming God .

 

[John1.12]

And have you told them you believe their church is "anti-Christian" or did you just keep that opinion to yourself?

It was evident in conversation. Yes I told them that what they believed was unbiblical and demonstrated from scripture ,why .

 

[John1.12]

Then why does Jesus refer to God the Father as "our Father"? "And why does He refer to humanity as his brothers? Are you saying God the Father isn't "the Father" at all? The Bible tells us that we are God's offspring and that He is the Father of our spirits. God the Father, not Jesus. Jesus created our world. His Father created us.

Again.
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15¶Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For BY HIM were ALL THINGS CREATED , that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS !!! were created by him, and for him:

17And he is BEFORE ALL THINGS before all things, and BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST . This alone refutes Mormon doctrine.

 

[John1.12]

John 21:25 says, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written." Clearly, He did numerous things that were never recorded in the Bible.

Yeah and we leave it at that . Not invent things .

 

[John1.12]

That is absolute BS. And you, Barry, are just about as poor of an example of a Christian as I've ever seen on this forum. I was going to simply ignore everything you had to say in the future, but I think that instead, I'll just let you continue to show your true colors to everyone on this forum. So far, you've managed to leave pretty much everyone who has interacted with you completely unimpressed. Good job.

You must gloss over such verses as :
John 8:24

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Considering Jesus too harsh .

 

[John1.12]

That is absolute BS. And you, Barry, are just about as poor of an example of a Christian as I've ever seen on this forum. I was going to simply ignore everything you had to say in the future, but I think that instead, I'll just let you continue to show your true colors to everyone on this forum. So far, you've managed to leave pretty much everyone who has interacted with you completely unimpressed. Good job.

//That is absolute BS. // Nice. is that Christ like ?

 

[John1.12]

All of the sons of God are brothers. Prior to Lucifer's being cast out of Heaven for rebellion, he was one of God's children and a brother to Jesus Christ, God's Only Begotten. From the moment he was cast out, he became permanently estranged from God, was disowned by Him and lost the right to ever again be called one of God's children. Lucifier's rebellion was a reflection on him and him alone. It had absolutely no bearing on Jesus Christ's role as our Savior and Redeemer. Besides, this concept is not one invented by Mormonism. The relationship between Jesus Christ and Satan was taught anciently. In the third century, the Christian writer, Lactantius, wrote:

"Before creating the world, God produced a spirit like himself, replete with the virtues of the Father. Later He made another, in whom the mark of divine origin was erased, because this one was besmirched by the poison of jealousy and turned therefore from good to evil. He was jealous of his older brother who, remaining united with the Father, insured his affection unto himself. This being who from good became bad is called devil by the Greeks."

None of this is in the bible ,proving my point .

 

[John1.12]

Fine. So break down each of the 16 points and we'll discuss them in depth.

Was God once a man ?

 

[Jane.Doe]

Of all , what ? In what context? which bible verse are you thinking of ?

I posted several verses from the Bible speaking of the Father being Christ's Father and your/mine/etc's Father. There's only one Father. That's part of Christianity 201, which all Christians (including LDS and Protestant ones) agree on. Trying to argue otherwise is.... frankly just ignoring scripture.

 

[John1.12]

I posted several verses from the Bible speaking of the Father being Christ's Father and your/mine/etc's Father. There's only one Father. That's part of Christianity 201, which all Christians (including LDS and Protestant ones) agree on. Trying to argue otherwise is.... frankly just ignoring scripture.

Jesus referred to God the Father as ' Father ' . Israel would address God corporately as ' our Father ' . Christians can refer to the Father as ' Abba ' . Unbelievers ? Show me the verse for Unbelievers?
But again this is irrelevant, because even the term ' Father ' means something entirely different in Mormonism compared to the bible. This is why I say its Just the same words Christians use but Mormons mean something entirely different. Its the same words only , but different dictionary.

 

[John1.12]

I did, post 284. You ignored it.

The Father is the Father of all. All Christians believe this.

Christians believe the bible on this matter not Mormon beliefs.

 

[John1.12]

The Bible states the Christ's Father is your Father. There is only one for everyone.

• God of the spirits of all flesh, Num. 16:22 (27:16).
  
• Have we not all one father? hath not one God created, Mal. 2:10

• glorify your Father which is in heaven, Matt. 5:16.
  
• Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father, Matt. 5:48.
  
• pray to thy Father which is in secret, Matt. 6:6
  
• Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name, Matt. 6:9 (Luke 11:2
  
• neither will your Father forgive your trespasses, Matt. 6:15 (Mark 11:26.
  
• do the will of my Father … is my brother, Matt. 12:50.
  
• flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father, Matt. 16:17.
• be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father, Matt. 20:23.
  
• call no man your father … for one is your Father, Matt. 23:9.
  
• Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful, Luke 6:36.
• ask of the Father in my name, John 15:16 (16:23)
  
• I am not yet ascended to my Father, John 20:17
  
• as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you, John 20:21.
• to us there is but one God, the Father, 1 Cor. 8:6.

@Barry Johnson , LDS Christians are Christens. Not Protestant Christians, Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, etc, but indeed Christians.

No Christians ever attend a Mormon temple on Sunday . Mormons do not attend any Church that is a Christian Church, this is a clue.

 

[Jane.Doe]

Jesus referred to God the Father as ' Father ' . Israel would address God corporately as ' our Father ' . Christians can refer to the Father as ' Abba ' . Unbelievers ? Show me the verse for Unbelievers?
But again this is irrelevant, because even the term ' Father ' means something entirely different in Mormonism compared to the bible. This is why I say its Just the same words Christians use but Mormons mean something entirely different. Its the same words only , but different dictionary.

You are ignoring basic logic and the Bible.

The Father is your Father. He is also Christ's Father. And my Father. And Mother Teresa's Father. And Elvis's. And Jack the Ripper's. Etc. Everyone's.

There is no other.

Please, either
1) Tell me about this second Father in Heaven you believe in.
2) Stop trying to argue that there is a second Father in Heaven.

Christians believe the bible on this matter not Mormon beliefs.

I quoted the bible. You ignored it. Repeatedly.

 

[John1.12]

The Bible states the Christ's Father is your Father. There is only one for everyone.

• God of the spirits of all flesh, Num. 16:22 (27:16).
  
• Have we not all one father? hath not one God created, Mal. 2:10

• glorify your Father which is in heaven, Matt. 5:16.
  
• Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father, Matt. 5:48.
  
• pray to thy Father which is in secret, Matt. 6:6
  
• Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name, Matt. 6:9 (Luke 11:2
  
• neither will your Father forgive your trespasses, Matt. 6:15 (Mark 11:26.
  
• do the will of my Father … is my brother, Matt. 12:50.
  
• flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father, Matt. 16:17.
• be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father, Matt. 20:23.
  
• call no man your father … for one is your Father, Matt. 23:9.
  
• Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful, Luke 6:36.
• ask of the Father in my name, John 15:16 (16:23)
  
• I am not yet ascended to my Father, John 20:17
  
• as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you, John 20:21.
• to us there is but one God, the Father, 1 Cor. 8:6.

@Barry Johnson , LDS Christians are Christens. Not Protestant Christians, Catholic Christians, Orthodox Christians, etc, but indeed Christians.

Then why does no Christian denomination accept Mormonism as 'Christian ' . Why do no Christian denominations accept Mormonism as Christian? Its not Just me . I'm not the only Christian here that believes this .

 

[Jane.Doe]

Then why does no Christian denomination accept Mormonism as 'Christian ' . Why do no Christian denominations accept Mormonism as Christian? Its not Just me . I'm not the only Christian here that believes this .

A) Popular opinion does not determine Truth.
B) Many other Christians do acknowledge LDS Christians as Christians because a Christian is a person whom acknowledges Jesus Christ as their Lord & Savior. Salvation comes through faith in Him.
C) LDS Christians are not Protestant Christians. This is readily acknowledged. You don't have to accept me as a member of your denomination - I'm not and I have theological disagreements with Protestantism. But we do both love Jesus Christ our Savior.
D) Your objections here again are you foundationally misunderstanding LDS Christian beliefs on based on non-essential theological points. The thing you're fighting against isn't even actual LDS Christian beliefs, but rather an "anti-cult" strawman argument!

 

[John1.12]

You are ignoring basic logic and the Bible.

The Father is your Father. He is also Christ's Father. And my Father. And Mother Teresa's Father. And Elvis's. And Jack the Ripper's. Etc. Everyone's.

There is no other.

Please, either
1) Tell me about this second Father in Heaven you believe in.
2) Stop trying to argue that there is a second Father in Heaven.


I quoted the bible. You ignored it. Repeatedly.

Ok the bible does not say God the Father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a God by following the laws and ordinances of that God on that planet and came to this world with his wife (she became a goddess), and that they produce a spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring, which includes Jesus, the devil, and you and me, are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. These preexistence spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth, and their memories of the preexistence are lost at the time. So when you say ' Father ' and Christians say ' Father ' we don't mean the same thing at all . No Christians believe the above .

 

[Jane.Doe]

Ok the bible does not say God the Father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a God by following the laws and ordinances of that God on that planet and came to this world with his wife (she became a goddess), and that they produce a spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring, which includes Jesus, the devil, and you and me, are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. These preexistence spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth, and their memories of the preexistence are lost at the time. So when you say ' Father ' and Christians say ' Father ' we don't mean the same thing at all . No Christians believe the above .

Age you going to:

1) Tell me about this second Father in Heaven you believe in.
2) Agree that there is only one Father in Heaven.

That's the question.

 

[John1.12]

A) Popular opinion does not determine Truth.
B) Many other Christians do acknowledge LDS Christians as Christians because a Christian is a person whom acknowledges Jesus Christ as their Lord & Savior. Salvation comes through faith in Him.
C) LDS Christians are not Protestant Christians. This is readily acknowledged. You don't have to accept me as a member of your denomination - I'm not and I have theological disagreements with Protestantism. But we do both love Jesus Christ our Savior.
D) Your objections here again are you foundationally misunderstanding LDS Christian beliefs on based on non-essential theological points. The thing you're fighting against isn't even actual LDS Christian beliefs, but rather an "anti-cult" strawman argument!

I'm not ' protestant ' . But no Denominations believe God the Father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a God by following the laws and ordinances of that God on that planet and came to this world with his wife (she became a goddess), and that they produce a spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring, which includes Jesus, the devil, and you and me, are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. These preexistence spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth, and their memories of the preexistence are lost at the time.

 

[John1.12]

Age you going to:

1) Tell me about this second Father in Heaven you believe in.
2) Agree that there is only one Father in Heaven.

That's the question.

I've addressed this point ..When you say ' Father ' you mean' God the Father used to be a man on another planet, that he became a God by following the laws and ordinances of that God on that planet and came to this world with his wife (she became a goddess), and that they produce a spirit offspring in heaven. These spirit offspring, which includes Jesus, the devil, and you and me, are all brothers and sisters born in the preexistence. These preexistence spirits come down and inhabit babies at the time of birth, and their memories of the preexistence are lost at the time. When Christians say ' Father ' we definitely do not mean the above .