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"What Jesus REALLY meant was ...."

John1.12

Free gift
So what are you? And why do you refuse to answer?

Of course we do. Why do you continue to lie? Do you not believe it's wrong to bear false witness? Or is that commandment not a part of the Gospel According to Barry?

We've gone over this a million times. Both Jane and I have explained the LDS understanding of Jesus' relationship to Lucifer. Are you simply incapable of understanding plain English. How would it change Jesus' message if He had a rebellious brother in the pre-mortal existence? And we do believe Jesus was the creator of all "things." We don't believe He is our Heavenly Father, though, and the Bible doesn't teach us that he is.
//How would it change Jesus' message if He had a rebellious brother in the pre-mortal existence? And we do believe Jesus was the creator of all "things."//
If Jesus had Satan as a brother ,this contradicts the bible that says Jesus created all things ,including the Angels, including Lucifer. Saying Jesus had a Brother in light of John 1.1 is illogical to say the least .At worst it denies Jesus as God and puts on a level ( brother) with Satan, who he created.
1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things ( this includes lucifer).were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. ( Everything but God was made / created)
 

John1.12

Free gift
I certainly hope so, because you know what? 9 out of 10 people who are following this thread are going to think, "Jane and Katzpur are LDS. Barry is not. When Jane and Katzpur say what Mormonism teaches and Barry says they're wrong, I'm going to accept Jane and Katzpur's word for it. That Barry dude has got a few screws loose."
My point was ( regardless of the personal attacks on my character) was that folks will see Mormonism and Christians do not teach or believe the same things on all the things that are essential to christianity.
 

Jane.Doe

Active Member
My point was ( regardless of the personal attacks on my character) was that folks will see Mormonism and Christians do not teach or believe the same things on all the things that are essential to christianity.
Barry, you do realize that what you think "Mormons" believe and what LDS Christians *actually* believe are two entirely different things?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
My point was ( regardless of the personal attacks on my character) was that folks will see Mormonism and Christians do not teach or believe the same things on all the things that are essential to christianity.
Well good luck with that. Christians can't even agree on what's essential to Christianity. Once they can do that, we can move on to your next point of contention. I mean you are certainly entitled to your own opinion as to what's essential, but that certainly doesn't mean that all other Christians are going to agree with you. For starters, I'd guess that at least 95% of them would say that God is our Father and not Jesus.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
//How would it change Jesus' message if He had a rebellious brother in the pre-mortal existence? And we do believe Jesus was the creator of all "things."//
If Jesus had Satan as a brother ,this contradicts the bible that says Jesus created all things ,including the Angels, including Lucifer. Saying Jesus had a Brother in light of John 1.1 is illogical to say the least .At worst it denies Jesus as God and puts on a level ( brother) with Satan, who he created.
1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things ( this includes lucifer).were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. ( Everything but God was made / created)
Okay, well if you want to think that Jesus created His own mother, knock yourself out. And while you're at it, you might try explaining how that's even possible.
 

Jane.Doe

Active Member
Well good luck with that. Christians can't even agree on what's essential to Christianity. Once they can do that, we can move on to your next point of contention. I mean you are certainly entitled to your own opinion as to what's essential, but that certainly doesn't mean that all other Christians are going to agree with you. For starters, I'd guess that at least 95% of them would say that God is our Father and not Jesus.
Even if we went through Barry's personal list of what he considers essential, I'm guessing both of the following will happen:
1) He'll ignore the groups of non-LDS Christians whom don't match this list.
2) Once we clarify that "Yes, LDS Christians do believe this", he'll ignore those facts.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Even if we went through Barry's personal list of what he considers essential, I'm guessing both of the following will happen:
1) He'll ignore the groups of non-LDS Christians whom don't match this list.
2) Once we clarify that "Yes, LDS Christians do believe this", he'll ignore those facts.
That is absolutely what will happen. You know, I'd just stop responding to him altogether if I wasn't so entertained by him. I haven't had this much fun with a fundamentalist Christian in a very long time. The Gospel According to Barry is fascinating to say the least.
 

John1.12

Free gift
Well good luck with that. Christians can't even agree on what's essential to Christianity. Once they can do that, we can move on to your next point of contention. I mean you are certainly entitled to your own opinion as to what's essential, but that certainly doesn't mean that all other Christians are going to agree with you. For starters, I'd guess that at least 95% of them would say that God is our Father and not Jesus.
100% of saved Christians believed on the same Gospel for their salvation.
 

John1.12

Free gift
Even if we went through Barry's personal list of what he considers essential, I'm guessing both of the following will happen:
1) He'll ignore the groups of non-LDS Christians whom don't match this list.
2) Once we clarify that "Yes, LDS Christians do believe this", he'll ignore those facts.
100% of Saved people believed the exact same Gospel .
 

John1.12

Free gift
Please do a little bit of research on "Pseudepigrapha".
Doesn't work .
While the pseudepigrapha may be of interest to students of history and ancient religious thought, they are not inspired by God and therefore not part of the canon of Scripture. Reasons to reject the pseudepigrapha are 1) they were written under false names. Any pretense or falsehood in a book naturally negates its claim of truthfulness. 2) They contain anachronisms and historical errors. For example, in the Apocalypse of Baruch, the fall of Jerusalem occurs “in the 25th year of Jeconiah, king of Judah.” The problem is that Jeconiah was 18 years old when he began to reign, and he only reigned 3 months (2 Kings 24:8). There is no way to reconcile the “25th year” statement with the biblical account. 3) They contain outright heresy. In the pseudepigraphal Acts of John, for example, Jesus is presented as a spirit or phantasm who left no footprints when He walked, who could not be touched, and who did not really die on the cross.

The apostle Paul had to deal with pseudepigrapha written in his own day. Addressing the Thessalonian church, Paul says not to be alarmed by a “letter supposed to have come from us” (2 Thessalonians 2:2). Obviously, someone had tried to mislead the believers with a forged letter imitating Paul’s style. Paul was forced to take precautions: “I, Paul, write this greeting in my own hand, which is the distinguishing mark in all my letters. This is how I write” (2 Thessalonians 3:17; see also 1 Corinthians 16:21; Galatians 6:11; and Colossians 4:18).

There are many books that fall under the category of pseudepigrapha, including the Testament of Hezekiah, the Vision of Isaiah, the Books of Enoch, the Secrets of Enoch, the Book of Noah, the Apocalypse of Baruch (Baruch was Jeremiah’s scribe according to Jeremiah 36:4), the Rest of the Words of Baruch, the Psalter of Solomon, the Odes of Solomon, the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, the Testament of Adam, the Testament of Abraham, the Testament of Job, the Apocalypse of Ezra, the Prayer of Joseph, Elijah the Prophet, Zechariah the Prophet, Zechariah: Father of John, the Itinerary of Paul, the Acts of Paul, the Apocalypse of Paul, the Itinerary of Peter, the Itinerary of Thomas, the Gospel According to Thomas, the History of James, the Apocalypse of Peter, and the Epistles of Barnabas.
 
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