What Keeps You on the Straight and Narrow?

[Sunstone]

Lying and cheating takes a lot of energy to maintain. Being mindful and truthful only takes practice.

When you lie, you tend to lie to yourself even more than you did to others. At least it seems that most of us, when we lie, rationalize our lying to some great extent. That rationalization not only requires effort to maintain, as you point out Paul, but it also tends to delude us about ourselves, which can fuel all sorts of mischief.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I am pretty sure that I got my moral values from my mother - someone one could hardly fault as to being exemplary with regards good moral values - and a relatively happy childhood. But no doubt I did work out at some stage that not being nasty or selfish towards others made more sense than doing so - and I think I was just more naturally inclined that way too. I always was rather picky with regards friends, for example, and was always more drawn to those like myself. Hence I have not found it difficult to make good friends - and ones that have rarely disappointed. For me it is a bit obvious - one doesn't hopefully want to carry about a burden of guilt for anything one has done - life being simpler when one behaves well and is honest - but of course this can't always be the case. And in earlier times, when I had many issues, I certainly was not behaving as I should - for which I have regrets, but they don't follow me about reminding me all the time of any past mistakes. That is just not helpful. One has to deal with life at the moment - and fortunately for me now, there are no such issues.

I can certainly understand that others with different backgrounds and experiences will have different struggles, so I am unlikely to be judgmental in this regard.

So, for me, it is more an internal compass that governs my behaviour - one no doubt refined over time, but essentially respecting others, treating them as one would want to be treated (not using them), trying to understand their particular perspectives and experiences, and not enshrined in any particular rules or codes - although the Humanist Code seems to me to be as close as I would want to see such.

 

[Faithofchristian]

My question would be, As to how do you get that people would spend eternity in hell, Seeing that hell is cast into the lake of fire, according to the book of
Revelation 20:14
So there wouldn't be any hell, for people to spend eternity in hell.

 

[sayak83]

It's been suggested that without the fear of consequence for one's choices (such as an eternity in Hell) that nothing would matter (people would make choices outside of axiom of moral goodness), which leads me to believe that the moral goodness of many is a result of fear of consequence for their actions.

Is fear the only reason many choose to be good?

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

Its the path that generates least suffering and maximum eudaimonia over the long haul. But also I am what I am. Why is the electron negatively charged you may well ask.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Common sense. It's not that hard to figure out that mutual co-operation also benefits the individual. It's not rocket science. For those who seem to need fear, I simply don't understand them. We don't speed on the highway because the cops could catch us, but because everyone is safer, including ourselves.

In my experience, common sense isn't all that common. I see people harm others, and even themselves, almost on a daily basis.

And clearly you've never seen me drive.

 

[Araceli Cianna]

For me I think it comes down to empathy. I'm very empathic and I feel the results of my actions in others. If I make someone upset or angry I will feel that and it's obviously not very pleasant, so it benefits both others and myself if I am generally benevolent.

 

[atanu]

It's been suggested that without the fear of consequence for one's choices (such as an eternity in Hell) that nothing would matter (people would make choices outside of axiom of moral goodness), which leads me to believe that the moral goodness of many is a result of fear of consequence for their actions.

Is fear the only reason many choose to be good?

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

I think it can work in a layered way. God believers may believe that God, as an external being, knows all of one's actions and metes out fruits suitably. At another stage, God is understood as the Seer, Knower, and the Conscience. It is called the antaryama (the inner restrainer) in Hinduism.

At another level, the existence-consciousness is realised as one infinite ocean. If one spits upwards, the spit will fall on oneself.

My Guru says "When one give anything one gives to oneself".

 

[ArtieE]

Indubitably fear of the negative consequences of Hell does keep people on the straight and narrow. However, hope for the future also keeps people on the straight and narrow too. So fear is not the only motivation in general. However, fear may indeed be the principle (and possibly only) motivation for some people. To put this in perspective, there are people who, in the absence of a fear of consequences, would have no qualms about killing millions of people for the sake of personal convenience. I don't mean that as a matter of speculation. I mean that people actually exist who do not place any intrinsic value on human life, not even their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, or children. The only reason they 'value' them is because of the negative consequences that would occur to them personally. I realize that this way of thinking is totally alien to some people, but this way of thinking actually exists and has been studied. It is the subject of certain questions psychologists ask people that helps determine a psychological profile.

I wonder if anybody has written a psychological profile on the God of the Bible who values human life so much that he drowns a whole planet full...

 

[WalterTrull]

I suppose "straight and narrow" means obeying the rules. The inference is "good" rules. I've never been very good at sticking to the rules. (major preacher's daughter complex I guess) It's the degree of "ouch" that usually sends me in the direction of those rules. Empathy is a great, great emotion. I hope it is fostered. However, empathy often results in breaking the "rules". I have found it very educational to bounce off the walls occasionally.

 

[George-ananda]

What exactly is good?

I meant the kind of things traditionally considered good by both religion and secular society, brotherly love, peace, compassion, concern for others, etc..

Those things we learn lead us to true happiness in our hearts and mind. Ignoring those things for personal pleasure will lead to unhappiness.

I was saying we follow 'good' to be happy and not because of a fear of hell.

 

[columbus]

My Guru says "When one give anything one gives to oneself".

To me, this is the fundamental essence of "Enlightened Selfishness".

Morality is the recognition that we are all part of an interdependent web. When you do something that improves the human situation you are improving your own situation because you are a human. When you degrade the human situation you are degrading your own situation for the same reason.

We humans aren't really all that perceptive or rational. So we come up with rules and such to help us decide what's the best thing to do for ourselves. It's really not that difficult, so the ethics of different cultures tend to converge on the important stuff. Unfortunately, not everyone learns why moral behavior is the best thing for themselves.
Because we keep getting born ignorant and fearful and needy. Most people learn better to a degree, but it's really uneven because humans are so limited.

To me, that's the true Problem of Evil. If there is a god, why does He keep making humans so similar to apes? I also think that is why there are so many Creationists. People don't want to admit that god makes us this way, we cannot choose differently. But Almighty God could, if He exists.

Tom

 

[Thief]

It's been suggested that without the fear of consequence for one's choices (such as an eternity in Hell) that nothing would matter (people would make choices outside of axiom of moral goodness), which leads me to believe that the moral goodness of many is a result of fear of consequence for their actions.

Is fear the only reason many choose to be good?

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

EXCELLENT OP!!!!!!

I flip flop.....
part of me wants to be good....sugar and spice and everything nice
(and no ....I'm not female .....I really am a guy)

but I got this streak in me ....likely due to the neighborhood I lived in
I keep it in check
I'm cool

but I strongly suspect.....in the hour of my last breath
I shall stand in form as my spirit truly is

and the angelic will take one look......and cut me in half

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I meant the kind of things traditionally considered good by both religion and secular society, brotherly love, peace, compassion, concern for others, etc..

Now you've done gone and ruined my day for not giving me anything to launch a philosophical debate over what is good.

 

[ChristineM]

It's been suggested that without the fear of consequence for one's choices (such as an eternity in Hell) that nothing would matter (people would make choices outside of axiom of moral goodness), which leads me to believe that the moral goodness of many is a result of fear of consequence for their actions.

Is fear the only reason many choose to be good?

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

Morality, ethics, decency, principals, personal standards, honour, justice, respect, in short humanity... No god required

 

[Dash Balderson]

For me its a combination of things others have already said. Because of empathy fulfilling a sense of duty toward another simply feels good. You know you made someone's day, and you know what that feels like to have done for yourself, and it is simply a "good" feeling. But I can't disagree that this still has some of its root in selfishness. Helping others to help your own state of mind. So I don't believe it is all empathy, nor is it all self-interest. And in the selfish/self-interest driven part there may very well be a smidge of fear, or a wanting to avoid backlash from authorities.

Like with most things, there isn't likely to be a "smoking gun" to point to as the ultimate driver.

 

[Thief]

Morality, ethics, decency, principals, personal standards, honour, justice, respect, in short humanity... No god required

your fellow man is your standard?

 

[George-ananda]

Now you've done gone and ruined my day for not giving me anything to launch a philosophical debate over what is good.

I think I saw that coming and was avoiding that debate for the good of my internal happiness ('peace' being one of the good things I mentioned).

As a believer in Advaita non-dual Hinduism (God/Brahman and creation are not-two), I believe good is that which promotes the Oneness of all living things through brotherly love and compassion. This kind of Good produces happiness as Oneness is our essential nature.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As a believer in Advaita non-dual Hinduism (God/Brahman and creation are not-two), I believe good is that which promotes the Oneness of all living things through brotherly love and compassion. This kind of Good produces happiness as Oneness is our essential nature.

My views are more biologically based, in that we are social animals who benefit from pro-social behaviors. And I have this thing called a "conscious," and it drives me to do as little harm to others as I reasonably and possibly can. After that, my views jump to "no victim, no crime" and I don't really care (which is where the philosophical debates can flourish, such as with asking is it good to follow the law for the sake of following the law).

 

[LuisDantas]

It's been suggested that without the fear of consequence for one's choices (such as an eternity in Hell) that nothing would matter (people would make choices outside of axiom of moral goodness), which leads me to believe that the moral goodness of many is a result of fear of consequence for their actions.

Is fear the only reason many choose to be good?

Clearly not. Satisfaction for doing the right thing is very much something that happens.

Assuming your moral compass points in the direction of benevolence, what specifically keeps you on that path?

Mainly my perception of the likely consequences of my actions.

While many people seem to be believe / define ethics and morals in terms of prohibitions, requirements and rules, those disciplines are in fact permanent intellectual exercises.

 

[atanu]

... And I have this thing called a "conscious," and it drives me to do as little harm to others as I reasonably and possibly can. ...).

Do you mean conscience?