What Makes an Atheist an Atheist?

[viole]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

Well, I could say the same of people believing in God. What guarantee do we have that they do not, in fact, believe what they proclaim to believe? Maybe not to avoid ridicule, but to avoid a plethora of social pressures that make people believe in their local flavour of divinity.

Ciao

- viole

 

[PureX]

I don't know where you got the part i bolded, it's certainly not in any definition of atheism i know

If God/gods exist, but have no effect on humanity, the question is philosophically moot. Theism proposes the existence of God/gods because of the affect on humanity.

 

[ChristineM]

If God/gods exist, but have no effect on humanity, the question is philosophically moot. Theism proposes the existence of God/gads because of the affect on humanity.

So you have no source, assumption... you made it up, fair enough

 

[PureX]

Technically? In what way 'technically'? If somebody lacks a belief in god(s) they are an atheist, and many do.

"Atheism" is not a 'kind of person'. So technically speaking, there are no "atheists". There are only those people that adhere to and espouse atheism. Whether or not they believe it, or to what degree, is irrelevant. (The same can be said of theists.)

 

[Heyo]

Well, I could say the same of people believing in God. What guarantee do we have that they do not, in fact, believe what they proclaim to believe? Maybe not to avoid ridicule, but to avoid a plethora of social pressures that make people believe in their local flavour of divinity.

Ciao

- viole

Maybe you didn't catch it but @SalixIncendium's OP is a retort to my question https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/what-makes-a-christian-a-christian.238979

 

[viole]

Maybe you didn't catch it but @SalixIncendium's OP is a retort to my question https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/what-makes-a-christian-a-christian.238979

Yes, and?

Ciao

- viole

 

[ratiocinator]

"Atheism" is not a 'kind of person'. So technically speaking, there are no "atheists".

This is just nonsense. Atheism is the the lack of belief in god(s) and atheists are people who lack belief in any gods. Science isn't a kind of person either, but that doesn't mean there are no scientists. Theism isn't a kind of person, but that doesn't mean there aren't any theists.... Christianity isn't a kind of person.... get the idea?

 

[PureX]

This is just nonsense. Atheism is the the lack of belief in god(s) and atheists are people who lack belief in any gods.

You can keep repeating this until pigs fly, and it will remain illogical, irrational, and untrue.

Science isn't a kind of person either, but that doesn't mean there are no scientists

Science is an actual process, so those who engage in the process are called 'scientists'. Atheism is not a process. So there are no 'atheists'.

Theism isn't a kind of person, but that doesn't mean there aren't any theists.... Christianity isn't a kind of person.... get the idea?

Technically speaking, there are no "theists", either. There are only 'religionists'.

 

[firedragon]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

An Atheist is someone who identifies himself as an atheist. I know the word has a definition, but its not necessary that one has to abide by the definition. Its an identity statement. Its belonging to a community, either geographical or global.

PEW research showed that 18% of Atheists were in fact theists. They believe in a higher power. And that's only who outwardly proclaim that they believe in a divine power.

There maybe many theists as well who dont believe a higher power exists but they too are identifying themselves with an identity statement.

 

[ppp]

You can keep repeating this until pigs fly, and it will remain illogical, irrational, and untrue.

You are incorrect.

Atheism is not a process. So there are no 'atheists'.

Non-sequitur

Technically speaking, there are no "theists", either. There are only 'religionists'.

Set theory says otherwise.

 

[ppp]

PEW research showed that 18% of Atheists were in fact theists. They believe in a higher power. And that's only who outwardly proclaim that they believe in a divine power.

Can you provide a citation for this?

 

[firedragon]

Can you provide a citation for this?

Hmm. You mean a website? Well, I will have to do the same search you have to do. But no problem.

10 facts about atheists

 

[ppp]

Hmm. You mean a website? Well, I will have to do the same search you have to do. But no problem.

10 facts about atheists

I cannot do a search to find out which of the dozens of PEW articles that you-in-particular are referencing.

PEW research showed that 18% of Atheists were in fact theists. They believe in a higher power. And that's only who outwardly proclaim that they believe in a divine power.

However the article says, "At the same time, roughly one-in-five self-described atheists (18%) say they do believe in some kind of higher power. "

The beliefs in buddhas, bodhisattvas, honored ancestors, devas, nature spirits, enlightened aliens are obvious non-god higher powers. Not to mention the intentionally purely metaphorical gods, such a Spinoza's God or as in some forms of Wicca.

By claiming that those "atheists [are] in fact theists", you are falsely equating "higher power" with a god.

 

[firedragon]

I cannot do a search to find out which of the dozens of PEW articles that you-in-particular are referencing.



However the article says, "At the same time, roughly one-in-five self-described atheists (18%) say they do believe in some kind of higher power. "

The beliefs in buddhas, bodhisattvas, honored ancestors, devas, nature spirits, enlightened aliens are obvious non-god higher powers. Not to mention the intentionally purely metaphorical gods, such a Spinoza's God or as in some forms of Wicca.

By claiming that those "atheists [are] in fact theists", you are falsely equating "higher power" with a god.

No. Theist comes from Theos which means divinity.

Also, atheists are generally more educated in religion than Christians. I highly doubt that an atheist would consider the Buddha as a higher power. That, you just assumed for whatever reason.

Devas means Gods. Deva means God. Devathva means Godly. So that's theism. I think you just made up enlightened aliens as "higher powers". Its strange you missed the first part of point 2 but focused on the latter part "Higher Power" to make some alternatives up for arguments sake. Very strange. See, making things up just for the sake of argument is not valid. Rather, study the PEW research and how it was done.

The word Theos does not mean "The God". The God is Ho Theos. The word Theos with out the article is a word that means divinity. Thus, theism means "believing in some divinity". Theos basically means any thing someone thinks is divine. Any power or if you like the word "Higher Power". That is why in the point in which you missed the first part it says that 81% of the atheists fall into the definition of atheism and the rest dont.

Its strange when atheists make arguments like this which comes across as so dogmatic. "No no. My atheists are all like me. Dont say otherwise. I will even argue with some dogmatic, tribalistic argument to save my tribe."

You guys are affirming that you have made a religion out of atheism.

 

[Fool]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

Christian atheism - Wikipedia


mark 9:38-41

 

[Vee]

Yes, I know an atheist is defined as one who has a lack of belief in any God.

But what is the test to be recognized as an atheist by others?

If an atheist behaves in such a manner that aligns with the morals Jesus' teaches even though they claim to be an atheist, shouldn't they be called a Christian?

According to Wikipedia, there are 500 million atheists in the world. How do we know whether someone who claims to be an atheist secretly believes there is likely a divine power, but claims to be an atheist strictly to avoid ridicule for believing as such?

If we were to weed out these fake atheists, would the 500 million number significantly change?

If you recognize yourself as an atheist, what others think or how they see you shouldn't mean that much to you anyway. If you tell them you're an atheist, it's their problem if they want to believe you or not.
The fact that you don't believe in the existence of God doesn't mean you can't appreciate certain values of different faiths and use them in your life if you find they are somehow positive. Let's says you decide to stop eating meat because don't want animals to be killed to feed you. That doesn't make you a Buddhist per se, even though Buddhists are know for not wanting to kill animals (at least that's what I was told).
Are there "fake" atheists? Could be, I don't know. I do however know a lot of people who pretend to be religious to make their families happy. Maybe it works both ways.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Deceptive to God, an His people. Skepticism is easily hopeless, a terminal thing if you will. Dont drink the koolaid, haters.

 

[ppp]

No. Theist comes from Theos which means divinity.

You say that like it is supposed to be making some point.

Also, atheists are generally more educated in religion than Christians. I highly doubt that an atheist would consider the Buddha as a higher power. That, you just assumed for whatever reason.

Because most Buddhists are atheists.

Devas means Gods. Deva means God. Devathva means Godly. So that's theism.

Not precisely. Devas a celestial beings, only a sub set of which are gods. The "gods" label is an attempt to force a concept from another culture into words in a culture lacking the ideas. Deva also refers to quasi-platonic ideals that one can embody, rather than an actual being.

The word Theos does not mean "The God". The God is Ho Theos. The word Theos with out the article is a word that means divinity. Thus, theism means "believing in some divinity". Theos basically means any thing someone thinks is divine.

You just keep throwing out the non sequiturs. You can have it back.

 

[firedragon]

You say that like it is supposed to be making some point.


Because most Buddhists are atheists.


Not precisely. Devas a celestial beings, only a sub set of which are gods. The "gods" label is an attempt to force a concept from another culture into words in a culture lacking the ideas. Deva also refers to quasi-platonic ideals that one can embody, rather than an actual being.


You just keep throwing out the non sequiturs. You can have it back.

So Deva's are not Gods in your opinion. They are "celestial beings" you say. So believing in Deva's is not "theism"? I think you have ignored my whole post just to make an argument. Make a distinction between what you consider is God, and another.

Tell me please. What does

1. Tathva
2. Devatva

What do these mean?

 

[ppp]

Not precisely. Devas a celestial beings, only a sub set of which are gods. The "gods" label is an attempt to force a concept from another culture into words in a culture lacking the ideas. Deva also refers to quasi-platonic ideals that one can embody, rather than an actual being.

So Deva's are not Gods in your opinion. They are "celestial beings" you say. So believing in Deva's is not "theism"?

Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a sub-set?

Make a distinction between what you consider is God, and another.

Why? What has my conception of what would constitute a god got to do with whether or not someone is a theist? I don't consider the Sun to be a god, but I still consider people who think the Sun is a god to be theists. Same with people who worship Jim Jones, Jesus, Xenu, the Elohim (space alien versions of Rael), etc.

Tell me please. What does

1. Tathva
2. Devatva

What do these mean?

If you have a point, make it.