What ONE critical piece of information made you decide to believe or disbelieve Jesus rose?

[Trailblazer]

The ascension of Jesus rising through the stratosphere to be with His Father in heaven ( outer space) relies on a redundant cosmology. Even allowing for a God who can perform miracles, this is a bridge too far for many reasonable people.

How much different is the belief that the physical body of Jesus rose from the grave after three days?

 

[Trailblazer]

The best evidence is that they didn't..There is no evidence that they did.

What evidence is there that they didn't? How can you ever prove that?

 

[John1.12]

The ascension of Jesus rising through the stratosphere to be with His Father in heaven ( outer space) relies on a redundant cosmology. Even allowing for a God who can perform miracles, this is a bridge too far for many reasonable people.

So the person that creates the universe cannot navigate through it ?

 

[Trailblazer]

So the person that creates the universe cannot navigate through it ?

Jesus did not create the universe, God did that.

 

[John1.12]

What evidence is there that they didn't? How can you ever prove that?

Then we've got the most pointless reason for all the writing's of the new testament.

 

[Dawnofhope]

How much different is the belief that the physical body of Jesus rose from the grave after three days?

Both the resurrection and ascension would be miraculous events that defy science and reason. The ascension relies on a redundant cosmology, the resurrection doesn’t.

 

[John1.12]

Jesus did not create the universe, God did that.

That's not what Col 1 says .
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So the person that creates the universe cannot navigate through it ?

Hey, its quite a statement saying Jesus created the universe. God created the universe not Jesus the man IMHO but if you want to believe Jesus is God incarnate, go ahead.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

//there were no eyewitnesses to the resurrection// So why did the writers make it up ?

The Greek scholars who wrote the gospels likely were hearing hearsay spreading around the empire. Nobody's saying they made it up wholecloth because there are too many similarities to other dying rising gods wove into the texts. perhaps they thought it was a good story.

 

[John1.12]

Both the resurrection and ascension would be miraculous events that defy science and reason. The ascension relies on a redundant cosmology, the resurrection doesn’t.

I think science would have something to say about turning a few loafs and fishes into feeding thousands of people , walking on water, walking through walls , raising the dead , water into wine , healing the deaf , dumb , blind, ect ?

 

[robocop (actually)]

For myself, I could have said

* there were no eyewitnesses to the resurrection

* there is no empty tomb

* history doesn't record a single mention of ANY of the apostles, as if they never existed

* the 4 resurrection accounts are rife with inconsistencies

* the gospels were all written in Greek by anonymous writers 50 to 100 years after the fact

* the original gospels were never preserved

* the earliest full copies of the gospels date to 300 years after Christ's death

* if God had really wanted us to believe Jesus rose he would have given us irrefutable evidence that would completely eliminate all doubt, but he didn't

I could have said any of the above but the one critical piece of information that makes me doubt the resurrection is the fact that outside of a scant mention of "James, brother of Jesus who was called the Christ"--and that doesn't mention the resurrection at all--we have absolutely no mention of the name "Jesus Christ" ANYWHERE in the secular historical record until after Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman empire.

This is the one piece of information that convinces me Jesus never rose from the dead.

Wikipedia believes Jesus was an actual person.

 

[John1.12]

Hey, its quite a statement saying Jesus created the universe. God created the universe not Jesus the man IMHO but if you want to believe Jesus is God incarnate, go ahead.

The scriptures say Jesus created the universe. Its not ' my belief '
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1 .
And I never said ' the man ' It was before he became a man .John 1.1

 

[George-ananda]

I believe he was near death and presumed dead by many when removed from the crucifixion and later recovered through internal esoteric healing abilities.

My reason for believing that is modern psychic sources and psychic connections to the historical Jesus.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

In that case, please tell why do you think we have the New Testament?

The NT didn't come into existence until the 4th century when the most relevant texts were gathered together by Constantine into the Codexes and the rest thrown out, like the Gospel of Peter and the gospel of mary Magdalene among about 50 other gospels .

 

[Trailblazer]

That's not what Col 1 says .
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

I knew you'd cite that verse but I consider it patently absurd.
Paul glorified Jesus and made Jesus into something He never was and thus changed the course of Christianity.
Most Christians are completely oblivious to this.

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

 

[John1.12]

The Greek scholars who wrote the gospels likely were hearing hearsay spreading around the empire. Nobody's saying they made it up wholecloth because there are too many similarities to other dying rising gods wove into the texts. perhaps they thought it was a good story.

The " similarities to other dying rising gods" has been debunked over and over . But still persists on the internet never the less. //The Greek scholars who wrote the gospels// Evidence? any ? No this is just nonsense. Accepting the writers believed what they wrote but were mistaken in some way is the only credible argument. Everything else is radical nonsense.

 

[John1.12]

The NT didn't come into existence until the 4th century when the most relevant texts were gathered together by Constantine into the Codexes and the rest thrown out, like the Gospel of Peter and the gospel of mary Magdalene among about 50 other gospels .

More crazy theories that make absolutely no sense according to the narrative.

 

[ChristineM]

//there were no eyewitnesses to the resurrection// So why did the writers make it up ?

you got me, why do you think?

 

[John1.12]

I knew you'd cite that verse but I consider it patently absurd.
Paul glorified Jesus and made Jesus into something He never was and thus changed the course of Christianity.
Most Christians are completely oblivious to this.

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

No I'm well aware of this nonsense . Just reading Paul's letters is painfully obvious no one can have any reason to reject Paul. You may as well reject the Whole NT ,because you have no good reason to accept them either if you reject Paul. Especially as Peter affirms Paul as does the book of Acts.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The scriptures say Jesus created the universe. Its not ' my belief '
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1 .
And I never said ' the man ' It was before he became a man .John 1.1

The scriptures are theological and not reliable historical documents IMHO. They require careful interpretation. It sounds as if you are a Christian fundamentalist which is fine, but your beliefs rely on assumptions which are not shared outside your faith.