What Part of Us Survives Temporal Death?

[David T]

A member posted a thread here with a link to the following article which suggests that consciousness may not be what drives the human mind; that our actions are driven by a mechanism in our subconscious which creates the personal narrative.

What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

I found reading this article left me pondering about what part of us survives temporal death. Many call the immortal part of us the soul, the spirit, consciousness, etc. But what part of us here on earth carries on after the body and brain dies?

Regardless of what you believe, that if your soul is judged for life's actions and you go to Heaven, or if your consciousness experiences a cycle of rebirths to achieve liberation and release from this cycle, considering the above scientific hypothesis, and knowing that we, as a whole, do not survive temporal death, what part of us continues on?

For those of you that believe that one's soul continues on after temporal death, what part of one's consciousness continues on to the afterlife? Does one remember all that was experienced and one's mind continues into the afterlife completely intact, or is the part of us that is responsible for one's actions, vis-a-vis one's personal narrative, lost and one only retains what is learned in one's experience on earth?

Those of you that believe in a cycle of rebirths, what is the reason one doesn't remember details from last incarnations even though a part of one (I'll call this 'consciousness' for the purpose of this thread) has experienced them? After reading the linked article, I am considering the possibility that the mechanism contained in the subconsciousness, the one which is the personal narrative contained in the brain and that part of us is lost in temporal death, but the experiences themselves are retained in the consciousness, which survives temporal death, but are not remembered in specifics, but in general wisdom and/or knowledge. If you believe in the cycle of rebirth, what are your thoughts on this?

The subconscious and unconscious is a very recent rediscovery. Freud should be a death sign on this topic. We can become aware of but not understand. Not only not aware but more screwed up than we were before becoming aware. Freud is a problem in how we perceive. He is a symptom.

 

[Grandliseur]

A member posted a thread here with a link to the following article which suggests that consciousness may not be what drives the human mind; that our actions are driven by a mechanism in our subconscious which creates the personal narrative.

What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

I found reading this article left me pondering about what part of us survives temporal death. Many call the immortal part of us the soul, the spirit, consciousness, etc. But what part of us here on earth carries on after the body and brain dies?

Regardless of what you believe, that if your soul is judged for life's actions and you go to Heaven, or if your consciousness experiences a cycle of rebirths to achieve liberation and release from this cycle, considering the above scientific hypothesis, and knowing that we, as a whole, do not survive temporal death, what part of us continues on?

For those of you that believe that one's soul continues on after temporal death, what part of one's consciousness continues on to the afterlife? Does one remember all that was experienced and one's mind continues into the afterlife completely intact, or is the part of us that is responsible for one's actions, vis-a-vis one's personal narrative, lost and one only retains what is learned in one's experience on earth?

Those of you that believe in a cycle of rebirths, what is the reason one doesn't remember details from last incarnations even though a part of one (I'll call this 'consciousness' for the purpose of this thread) has experienced them? After reading the linked article, I am considering the possibility that the mechanism contained in the subconsciousness, the one which is the personal narrative contained in the brain and that part of us is lost in temporal death, but the experiences themselves are retained in the consciousness, which survives temporal death, but are not remembered in specifics, but in general wisdom and/or knowledge. If you believe in the cycle of rebirth, what are your thoughts on this?

Though Christian, death is destruction, nothing remains of me after I die, except the dead matter of my body gradually being reabsorbed into nature.

 

[Quintessence]

The manner in which folks address this question has felt a bit strange to me for a long time now. I look at the lessons I learned from the sciences - particularly ecology and the cycles of matter and energy that characterize our universe - and I don't neatly adhere to either of the narratives presented in the opening post. When all things in reality are inherently interconnected and always exchanging matter and energy, the notion of something "after" life just becomes perplexing. Life/existence is always going on, and always transforming. The idea that there is some sort of "after" life - as if life actually ends at any point - is just strange to me now.

At what point were "you" not constantly exchanging matter and energy with things designated "not you?" At what point does that matter and energy evaporate into nothingness? To the best of my knowledge, this never happens. Everything that is "you" is eternal already. It is always and forever part of the flow of reality. All of it survives. All the time, every moment of it. The problem humans have is accessing that reality. We're stuck in telescopic now-time and now-space. As a culture, we also tend to be dismissive of the realness of anything that isn't now-time and now-space. Alas, my thoughts and articulation of these things is becoming scattered... I require time to collect them.

 

[Sanzbir]

There's a bit of writings in my Faith that compare death to dreaming, both being states where the spirit is active while the body is inactive (granted, far more inactive in one state than the other).

Which would lead me to speculate that the experience would be akin to dreaming. so to answer the questions presented...

But what part of us here on earth carries on after the body and brain dies?

knowing that we, as a whole, do not survive temporal death, what part of us continues on?

what part of one's consciousness continues on to the afterlife?

All three are basically asking the same thing, so I'd guess the same parts of us that carry on into dreams.

Does one remember all that was experienced and one's mind continues into the afterlife completely intact, or is the part of us that is responsible for one's actions, vis-a-vis one's personal narrative, lost and one only retains what is learned in one's experience on earth?

Such things are typically carried over, at least in part, to dreams, so I'd think the same applies to death.

 

[Jainarayan]

My question is: What part of you is resurrected?

Catholic theology says the body and soul will be resurrected. They will be made whole and reunited for resurrection. That was always the reason against cremation, though to me that doesn't make sense... a cremated body should still be rehydrated and restored, no?

 

[Jainarayan]

Those of you that believe in a cycle of rebirths, what is the reason one doesn't remember details from last incarnations even though a part of one (I'll call this 'consciousness' for the purpose of this thread) has experienced them?

All I can think of is that it has to do with not being sufficiently spiritually advanced, i.e. not knowledgeable of our true nature. Sri Krishna tells Arjuna: "O Arjuna! You and I have passed through many births; I remember them all, but you do not, O scorcher of foes!" BG 4.5.

 

[`mud]

When all is lost to the ineptable forages of the afterwhiles,
when the last of the inner gnosis is non-functual,
when the gaseous remains become a new form,
when our cognizence is gone into the Cosmos,
what will we become, what will we sense ?
I find that position in the final firmament scary as hell !
Maybe I will become a butterfly, or the caterpillar that precedes.
I wish my wings will be wonderful and brilliant in color,
and the winds of the Cosmos be gentle.

 

[Fool]

A member posted a thread here with a link to the following article which suggests that consciousness may not be what drives the human mind; that our actions are driven by a mechanism in our subconscious which creates the personal narrative.

What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

I found reading this article left me pondering about what part of us survives temporal death. Many call the immortal part of us the soul, the spirit, consciousness, etc. But what part of us here on earth carries on after the body and brain dies?

Regardless of what you believe, that if your soul is judged for life's actions and you go to Heaven, or if your consciousness experiences a cycle of rebirths to achieve liberation and release from this cycle, considering the above scientific hypothesis, and knowing that we, as a whole, do not survive temporal death, what part of us continues on?

For those of you that believe that one's soul continues on after temporal death, what part of one's consciousness continues on to the afterlife? Does one remember all that was experienced and one's mind continues into the afterlife completely intact, or is the part of us that is responsible for one's actions, vis-a-vis one's personal narrative, lost and one only retains what is learned in one's experience on earth?

Those of you that believe in a cycle of rebirths, what is the reason one doesn't remember details from last incarnations even though a part of one (I'll call this 'consciousness' for the purpose of this thread) has experienced them? After reading the linked article, I am considering the possibility that the mechanism contained in the subconsciousness, the one which is the personal narrative contained in the brain and that part of us is lost in temporal death, but the experiences themselves are retained in the consciousness, which survives temporal death, but are not remembered in specifics, but in general wisdom and/or knowledge. If you believe in the cycle of rebirth, what are your thoughts on this?

https://phys.org/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html

 

[Jainarayan]

This is something I can wrap my head around. Quantum Consciousness | Quantum Consciousness

Briefly, our consciousness has its origin at a quantum level and is part of the fabric of reality.

 

[sun rise]

Those of you that believe in a cycle of rebirths, what is the reason one doesn't remember details from last incarnations even though a part of one (I'll call this 'consciousness' for the purpose of this thread) has experienced them? After reading the linked article, I am considering the possibility that the mechanism contained in the subconsciousness, the one which is the personal narrative contained in the brain and that part of us is lost in temporal death, but the experiences themselves are retained in the consciousness, which survives temporal death, but are not remembered in specifics, but in general wisdom and/or knowledge. If you believe in the cycle of rebirth, what are your thoughts on this?

Here's an example which illustrates my belief. Let's say two people meet and a spark goes between them and they fall in love and get married. Suppose in prior lives they had been parent and child, brother and sister, murderer and victim and so forth. How would they continue their learning together if all those memories were alive in their minds? It would be impossible.

I don't have a clue what we might remember of past lives once we die in this one, but since to me the afterlife is a place of review of the life just lived, it's possible.

 

[George-ananda]

I found reading this article left me pondering about what part of us survives temporal death. Many call the immortal part of us the soul, the spirit, consciousness, etc. But what part of us here on earth carries on after the body and brain dies?

In my worldview we have interpenetrating physical, etheric, astral and mental bodies. All of these are incarnated by our soul and even our soul is animated by the One Cosmic Consciousness call it God/Brahman/Whatever. At physical death, the astral/mental bodies separate from the physical body and continues life much like before but freer without the densest link in the chain of consciousness (as reported by Near Death Experiencers).

 

[Guy Threepwood]

The article about consciousness was interesting, although it still suggest that whatever it is that drives human consciousness is still self-contained within the body. Once the body dies, then consciousness also dies. If there's some "part" that continues on after the body dies, my question would not be "which part?" Instead, I would ask: How does this "part" (whatever it is) actually leave the body and travel to some other place?

Many years ago when I was working in the funeral business, I would think about this. I recall one instance where a caregiver for a lady who passed away was calling to report the death and arrange for pick up of the body. But she wanted us to wait a few hours to give the lady's soul time to leave the body. I didn't really understand where she got this from, since my understanding was that the soul leaves the body at the exact moment of death. Even if the soul hangs out for a little while inside a dead body, why would transporting the body to the mortuary somehow interfere with the "exiting" of the soul from that body?

I would also note that religions have very particular rules about how a body is to be handled and treated after death, even though it's viewed as nothing more than a husk - a temporary residence for the "soul" which is supposedly immortal and far more important than the body itself. Some religions forbid cremation or embalming, but why should any of that even matter?

How do your thoughts here, leave your computer and travel to some other place? to live on in some ephemeral cloud of information? Such concepts were still considered inherently supernatural not so long ago, but even we mere mortals have proven the principle, we did not invent 'invisible channels of communication' we just discovered they already exist. And then it's simply a logical choice to use them to store information instead of discarding it.

So I'd say the question is not so much 'how' as, why - why would you imagine that our creator would chose differently, to discard all that information instead of preserving it?


Treating our deceased with respect is one of the oldest foundations of religion, it's about how we view ourselves, each other

 

[Stevicus]

How do your thoughts here, leave your computer and travel to some other place?

Well, I'm sure some IT guy would be able to explain it. All I know is that I type something, hit "Post Reply," and somehow Revoltingest's toilet overflows. Strange technology.

to live on in some ephemeral cloud of information? Such concepts were still considered inherently supernatural not so long ago, but even we mere mortals have proven the principle, we did not invent 'invisible channels of communication' we just discovered they already exist. And then it's simply a logical choice to use them to store information instead of discarding it.

So I'd say the question is not so much 'how' as, why - why would you imagine that our creator would chose differently, to discard all that information instead of preserving it?

Unless there is no creator...

Treating our deceased with respect is one of the oldest foundations of religion, it's about how we view ourselves, each other

Yeah, I know, but it does seem to contradict most religious philosophies that the body itself is just a shell, while the soul is the all-important "immortal" part. If a religion is concerned about how a body is disposed of, then that would imply a belief that the body does serve some role in the afterlife, but what?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Well, I'm sure some IT guy would be able to explain it. All I know is that I type something, hit "Post Reply," and somehow Revoltingest's toilet overflows. Strange technology.

Unless there is no creator...

Of course, but then your rationale for there being no afterlife, relies on the existence of some unknown spontaneous universe/life creating mechanism... how safe a bet is that do you think?

Yeah, I know, but it does seem to contradict most religious philosophies that the body itself is just a shell, while the soul is the all-important "immortal" part. If a religion is concerned about how a body is disposed of, then that would imply a belief that the body does serve some role in the afterlife, but what?

I take your point, Egyptians for example, mummification went beyond just respecting the body, it was seen as crucial to keep it in tact for the afterlife-

I'm with you, I see no reason God would require it, since physical remains are not always available anyway.. hmm, think I'll switch to a cheerier thread!

 

[Deeje]

Regardless of what you believe, that if your soul is judged for life's actions and you go to Heaven, or if your consciousness experiences a cycle of rebirths to achieve liberation and release from this cycle, considering the above scientific hypothesis, and knowing that we, as a whole, do not survive temporal death, what part of us continues on?

May I ask what gives people the impression that life continues after death....in any form? Where does this idea come from?

 

[SalixIncendium]

May I ask what gives people the impression that life continues after death....in any form? Where does this idea come from?

I'm not sure if you're looking for my personal view or if you are asking in general, so I'll give you both.

My personal view is that our perceived reality is a dream or illusion of an absolute reality. Temporal reality is a projection of the Absolute manifested as the Self. Death is merely this manifestation awaking from this dream of reality, just as you wake up from a sleeping dream in this temporal reality. Where does this idea come from? Sense experience.

In general, this article offers views from multiple perspectives: Afterlife - Wikipedia

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The soul. The incoporeal thing.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The soul. The incoporeal thing.

Which is comprised of what and contained where?

 

[SalixIncendium]

In my worldview we have interpenetrating physical, etheric, astral and mental bodies. All of these are incarnated by our soul and even our soul is animated by the One Cosmic Consciousness call it God/Brahman/Whatever. At physical death, the astral/mental bodies separate from the physical body and continues life much like before but freer without the densest link in the chain of consciousness (as reported by Near Death Experiencers).

Where in the body or mind are these astral/mental bodies contained? Can these eventually be known by science?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Here's an example which illustrates my belief. Let's say two people meet and a spark goes between them and they fall in love and get married. Suppose in prior lives they had been parent and child, brother and sister, murderer and victim and so forth. How would they continue their learning together if all those memories were alive in their minds? It would be impossible.

I don't have a clue what we might remember of past lives once we die in this one, but since to me the afterlife is a place of review of the life just lived, it's possible.

Where are these memories contained during life if not in their minds?