1robin
Christian/Baptist
 Muhammad died in 632AD.
 Every single revelation at this time was memorized in sections by different companions and a small portion recorded on bits and pieces of anything at hand.
 In 633AD approx. 700 of these people who had memorized the Quran were killed in battle.
 This was so obviously devastating to retention of the revelation that they quickly in 634AD recorded everything that anyone who was left and reliable could remember. This is the Hafsah codex.
 I will add that what they had was probably accurate given their methods of confirmation, it is what was lost that is the issue.
This alone begs the question, how much was lost? To do backflips attempting to claim nothing was seems desperate and intellectually dishonest. This alone makes the issue an indecipherable one. There is simply no way to know and the issue could be stopped here. However it gets far far worse.
 This original Codex was destroyed by Muslim leaders in 667AD when she died.
 It appears that different reading had developed based on that original codex and a solution was adopted by Uthman.
 Supposedly he copied Hafsah's original and then burned everything else he could find and hers was destroyed as well.
 This was only necessary if at that time there were in fact divergent and contradictory versions of the Quran in use even at this early date.
 That means that what Uthman produced can't be checked against the original.
 This is not a problem if you have vast numbers of copies, early copies, and widely dispersed parallel lines of transmission. However this is not the case so the original is somewhat of a mystery and the original itself would be a mystery even if we had it because of the early deaths of so many that had individually memorized sections.
 These types of problems associated with the transmission of the Quran just keep piling up but I want to change gears a little and post something different.
There are vast numbers of issues concerning the Quran that are found in many places when it is researched. I will list some of the ones I have seen in more than one place. Some are just plain facts, some are likely, and some are not as concrete. However when the totality is considered there is no escape from the conclusion the Quran has many textual problems that render it less reliable than the Bible.
1. The Quran has only one witness to its revelation. The Bible has over 40. The most important event has over 4 independent testimonies that meet every standard of modern law and the historical method as said by Simon Green leaf and Lord Lyndhurst two of the greatest if not the greatest experts on evidence in human history.
2. Portions of what was revealed to Muhammad is said to have been recorded on scraps of paper, bone, bark, leather, and parch fragments. It seems desperate to claim all these were accounted for. In fact at least one of his wives stated that an animal ate some of the papers and she knew some had been lost over time.
3. The Quran claims to be in pure Arabic, yet it contains foreign words from other cultures. Even Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti a respected Muslim language expert agrees there are 107 non Arabic words and most western scholars say 270 plus.
4. The Quran claims to be perfect yet contains many spelling errors, meanings of words are misused, and rhyme dictated certain word use over more accurate words.
5. Many respected linguistic scholars claim it is a literary train wreck. I will admit that others disagree. However the way it is arranged is not conducive to understanding but to recitation only.
6. It contains stories virtually word for word in many cases out of much earlier gnostic texts including misspellings of place names that are well known. These Gnostics are known to have lived in Arabia during Muhammad’s time.
7. Many of its Biblical stories are just plain incorrect. All things being equal the earlier and especially contemporary sources are always deemed more accurate than later ones. Some of its Biblical stories are simply impossible.
8. It makes scientific claims that do not agree with any known scientific knowledge.
9. It makes historical claims that do not match archeological discovery.
10. It claims theological doctrine that contradicts the far earlier and contemporary claims made by eye witnesses to Jesus.
11. It contains earlier Arabian myth that preexisted Muhammad.
12. Even today Qurans can be found that differ extensively in certain areas. Even the four early reciters recited differing versions:
Muslim source materials reveal some of these select people who are known to have created their unique version of the Qur'an. (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 150). [Search on the referenced site to find the number "150" if you want to verify the written literature].
I heard the Prophet saying, "Learn the recitation of Qur'an from four persons: (1)Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud, (2)Salim (who was killed in the 633 CE battle), the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa, (3)Ubayy B. Ka'ab and (4)Muadh bin Jabal."
So a few select people close to Muhammad thought they knew the Qur’an and collected their personal version. These versions of the Qur’an became widely distributed and used. This is why Muslim soldiers were arguing and calling one another heretics.
Is the Qur'an Pure? Book Burning in Early Islam
I can keep going indefinitely but there is no point. When both the Quran and the Bible have a certain percentage of error it is far more honorable and honest to admit the issue than irrationally cling to a false claim of perfection that results in a loss of credability when the issue is researched. .
Here is a site I thought interesting. It even has pictures of sections of the Quran that were recently discovered buried in a Mosque. It has pictures showing different reading of the Quran.
PROBLEMS WITH THE RELIABILITY OF THE KORAN
 Every single revelation at this time was memorized in sections by different companions and a small portion recorded on bits and pieces of anything at hand.
 In 633AD approx. 700 of these people who had memorized the Quran were killed in battle.
 This was so obviously devastating to retention of the revelation that they quickly in 634AD recorded everything that anyone who was left and reliable could remember. This is the Hafsah codex.
 I will add that what they had was probably accurate given their methods of confirmation, it is what was lost that is the issue.
This alone begs the question, how much was lost? To do backflips attempting to claim nothing was seems desperate and intellectually dishonest. This alone makes the issue an indecipherable one. There is simply no way to know and the issue could be stopped here. However it gets far far worse.
 This original Codex was destroyed by Muslim leaders in 667AD when she died.
 It appears that different reading had developed based on that original codex and a solution was adopted by Uthman.
 Supposedly he copied Hafsah's original and then burned everything else he could find and hers was destroyed as well.
 This was only necessary if at that time there were in fact divergent and contradictory versions of the Quran in use even at this early date.
 That means that what Uthman produced can't be checked against the original.
 This is not a problem if you have vast numbers of copies, early copies, and widely dispersed parallel lines of transmission. However this is not the case so the original is somewhat of a mystery and the original itself would be a mystery even if we had it because of the early deaths of so many that had individually memorized sections.
 These types of problems associated with the transmission of the Quran just keep piling up but I want to change gears a little and post something different.
There are vast numbers of issues concerning the Quran that are found in many places when it is researched. I will list some of the ones I have seen in more than one place. Some are just plain facts, some are likely, and some are not as concrete. However when the totality is considered there is no escape from the conclusion the Quran has many textual problems that render it less reliable than the Bible.
1. The Quran has only one witness to its revelation. The Bible has over 40. The most important event has over 4 independent testimonies that meet every standard of modern law and the historical method as said by Simon Green leaf and Lord Lyndhurst two of the greatest if not the greatest experts on evidence in human history.
2. Portions of what was revealed to Muhammad is said to have been recorded on scraps of paper, bone, bark, leather, and parch fragments. It seems desperate to claim all these were accounted for. In fact at least one of his wives stated that an animal ate some of the papers and she knew some had been lost over time.
3. The Quran claims to be in pure Arabic, yet it contains foreign words from other cultures. Even Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti a respected Muslim language expert agrees there are 107 non Arabic words and most western scholars say 270 plus.
4. The Quran claims to be perfect yet contains many spelling errors, meanings of words are misused, and rhyme dictated certain word use over more accurate words.
5. Many respected linguistic scholars claim it is a literary train wreck. I will admit that others disagree. However the way it is arranged is not conducive to understanding but to recitation only.
6. It contains stories virtually word for word in many cases out of much earlier gnostic texts including misspellings of place names that are well known. These Gnostics are known to have lived in Arabia during Muhammad’s time.
7. Many of its Biblical stories are just plain incorrect. All things being equal the earlier and especially contemporary sources are always deemed more accurate than later ones. Some of its Biblical stories are simply impossible.
8. It makes scientific claims that do not agree with any known scientific knowledge.
9. It makes historical claims that do not match archeological discovery.
10. It claims theological doctrine that contradicts the far earlier and contemporary claims made by eye witnesses to Jesus.
11. It contains earlier Arabian myth that preexisted Muhammad.
12. Even today Qurans can be found that differ extensively in certain areas. Even the four early reciters recited differing versions:
Muslim source materials reveal some of these select people who are known to have created their unique version of the Qur'an. (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 150). [Search on the referenced site to find the number "150" if you want to verify the written literature].
I heard the Prophet saying, "Learn the recitation of Qur'an from four persons: (1)Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud, (2)Salim (who was killed in the 633 CE battle), the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa, (3)Ubayy B. Ka'ab and (4)Muadh bin Jabal."
So a few select people close to Muhammad thought they knew the Qur’an and collected their personal version. These versions of the Qur’an became widely distributed and used. This is why Muslim soldiers were arguing and calling one another heretics.
Is the Qur'an Pure? Book Burning in Early Islam
I can keep going indefinitely but there is no point. When both the Quran and the Bible have a certain percentage of error it is far more honorable and honest to admit the issue than irrationally cling to a false claim of perfection that results in a loss of credability when the issue is researched. .
Here is a site I thought interesting. It even has pictures of sections of the Quran that were recently discovered buried in a Mosque. It has pictures showing different reading of the Quran.
PROBLEMS WITH THE RELIABILITY OF THE KORAN