What Role Do Your Emotions Play in Your Spirituality?

[Hellbound Serpiente]

I have a slightly different view. Some folks can come across as angry or temperamental. I prefer to think of it as 'passion', in the broader, more original sense. For me it's more how that emotion is used; how that feeling is displayed. For instance, a person may have a temper but also be prone to people pleasing. He can use this passion to offset his desire to please everyone, by allowing it to surface and lead him to be able to debate passionately rather than lay down and be too accommodating. He can use that angry passion in this way.

I hold the same view. Negative passions are invaluable assets for balancing out, or even overwhelming, negative forces that are acting against us [whether they are inside of us or on the outside]. Vengeance has been my closest ally, throughout my life [especially my early life]. It has kept moving me forward towards my aim no matter how much my heart was crying out of agony to pull the plug, give up and quit, or how big the outside adversary was.

Now, regret has become my closest ally. It has prevented me from doing anything that'll add to my guilty conscience, no matter how tempting it is, and pushed me to do that is overall constructive no matter how inconvenient it may appear to be.

 

[Rival]

I read a quote in a book containing Chassidic prayers that came today and it pretty much sums my view,

'The Infinite can only be reached by transcending the rational mind- by arriving at a state of "not knowing"'.

 

[Sunstone]

I have a slightly different view. Some folks can come across as angry or temperamental. I prefer to think of it as 'passion', in the broader, more original sense. For me it's more how that emotion is used; how that feeling is displayed. For instance, a person may have a temper but also be prone to people pleasing. He can use this passion to offset his desire to please everyone, by allowing it to surface and lead him to be able to debate passionately rather than lay down and be too accommodating. He can use that angry passion in good ways if he harnesses it.

That's an example of what I'd call 'skillfulness'.

 

[Sunstone]

Using the definitions given in the OP of spirituality and self (even though personally, my view differs regarding the "you" and "not-you." But we'll talk about the pragmatic me for the purpose of this discussion).



My emotions can and have been a hinderance and have led to suffering, primarily because emotions are, for the most part, if not all, a product of ego.



The tool that had the greatest experience in managing my ego, and thereby, my emotions, was The Four Agreements, which are a part of Toltec philosophy. For those not familiar with them, they are:

• Be impeccable with you word
• Don't take anything personally
  
• Don't make assumptions
• Always do your best.

These, along with meditative and contemplative practice, gave me the skills to manage and cope with my self.



They can be either. It depends entirely on how they are managed.



Pragmatically, yes, my emotions are a part of me.

FOOL!!!! Oops! I'm projecting again. I meant to say, those are some genuinely interesting comments, Salix. I'm especially intrigued by why you see emotions as of the ego? Could you please get drunk and wax philosophic on that heading?

 

[The Hammer]

What role do your emotions play in your spirituality?

Before going further... yes, I fully realize this is RF and that our resident pettifoggers will be all over the title question as fast as flies on the fresh droppings of mountain goats, demanding to know what 'spirituality' means in this context, what 'emotions' are, and whether the promised 'role' will be served buttered or with olive oil. Yes. Yes, I know all of that -- in large part because I myself am one of RF's leading pettifoggers.

After all, Voltaire had a point when he said, "If you wish to converse with me, first define your terms".

So, let's get it over with. First, the commonsense disclaimer: News Flash: You are free to define your terms as you see fit (D'uh!), but please have the courtesy to make your meanings clear -- either implicitly or explicitly -- if you are using any terms in unconventional, 'non-dictionary' ways.

Next, the key term in dire need of definition here is "spirituality", is it not? I mean, the other terms are being used more or less in accordance with the deity-sanctioned Webster's and Oxford English Dictionaries, so no real need to define them (I hope).

Well, here goes then: In this context, 'spirituality' refers to the degree and manner in which a person manages, deals, or copes with their psychological self. And 'psychological self' refers to the thing you have been referencing nearly all your life when you refer to "I". "me", "myself", etc. That is, your psychological self is whatever it is that is 'you' as distinct from 'not-you'. e.g. if you think of 'you' as your thoughts, feelings, values, talents, and magazine subscriptions, then that is your psychological self (henceforth, just 'self') for the purposes of this thread.

For example, padawans, suppose you are one of those folks who self-identifies with a football team. Anyone who insults the team, insults you. When the team wins, you win. When the team loses, you lose. etc. etc. To one extent or another, you behave as if the team and you are the same thing. Suppose that were the case. Then that would be an example of the degree and manner in which you manage, deal, or cope with your 'self'.​

Again, for example, suppose you are one of those folks who self-identifies as a loving, caring spouse. Further suppose you goof up and say something hurtful to your spouse. Since you self-identify with being a loving, caring spouse, how you reconcile that self-image to your behavior of having goofed up will be indicative of how you manage, deal with, or cope with your self.​

To repeat: You are free to define 'spiritual' however you wish -- just please make clear how you are defining it.​

Do you have any intelligent questions now? More to the point, do you expect a dumbo like me to be capable of answering an intelligent question? What are you, some kind of gushing fountain of naivety?

So, with all of that said...

What role do your emotions play in your spirituality?

Specifically, in your spiritual progress? That is, in your becoming more and more skillful at managing, dealing with, or coping with your self?

In general, are your emotions your allies or your enemies in furthering the skillfulness with which you manage your self?

Do you self-identify with your emotions? Do you consider them part of 'you'?​

Also, please feel free to ask and/or answer any questions that are relevant to the topic and which you yourself think might be of interest to others.

Thank you for your time, patience, and any cake recipes you chose to PM me with.

Emotion is a key component of my Spirituality I feel. My Spirituality is wrapped up in emotional expression of things that society finds "improper", like desiring to punch the driver who cut me off, for example. But that is only one Aspect of my Spirituality and not the whole.

 

[Rival]

Could you please get drunk and wax philosophic on that heading?

I'm thinking doing that with this book of prayers...

 

[SalixIncendium]

FOOL!!!! Oops! I'm projecting again. I meant to say, those are some genuinely interesting comments, Salix. I'm especially intrigued by why you see emotions as of the ego? Could you please get drunk and wax philosophic on that heading?

Sorry, the only thing I currently have in the house to get drunk on is rooibos red tea.

Emotions are merely reactions to stimuli. The ego acts as a mediator between these stimuli and one's perceptional reaction. In other words, stimulus > ego > emotion.

But then again I'm probably wrong.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm thinking doing that with this book of prayers...

You should pull together a small group of friends and do it together! Skype, Zoom, whatever. Seriously, I had a professor of Comparative Religious Studies -- a third generation professor and a graduate of Harvard Divinity School, no less -- who would on occasion hold class in a tavern. He'd tell us, "The best, freest, most far ranging -- and sometimes the most insightful -- religious conversations usually involve friends and alcohol."

 

[Sunstone]

Sorry, the only thing I currently have in the house to get drunk on is rooibos red tea.

My profoundest condolences.

Emotions are merely reactions to stimuli. The ego acts as a mediator between these stimuli and one's perceptional reaction. In other words, stimulus > ego > emotion.

Thank you so much! I see where you're coming from now. I guess you could say, "The ego spins emotions, just like some news shows spin the facts." Or could you?

But then again I'm probably wrong.

Of course you are -- we are too inclined to make the same sense of the similar experiences we've had not for you to be dreadfully wrong.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

I read a quote in a book containing Chassidic prayers that came today and it pretty much sums my view,

'The Infinite can only be reached by transcending the rational mind- by arriving at a state of "not knowing"'.

This reminds me of another thread where we were discussing dreams and our dream realm. From what I've learned via googling around, in our dream world, our conscious mind becomes dormant and subconscious mind takes control. However, if we can somehow transcend our subconscious mind and it's control, and reach a certain state [like REM state] where we achieve sufficient consciousness, we can have "Lucid Dreams" and figure out that, well, this is just a dream. Maybe the same is true in spiritual context. Perhaps, right now, our spiritual mind is dormant while our rational mind is in control. However, if we can somehow transcend our rational mind and it's control, and reach a certain state [like some spiritual state] where we achieve sufficient spiritual consciousness, we can have "Spiritual Life" and figure out that, well, this life is just another dimension.

 

[wandering peacefully]

What role do your emotions play in your spirituality?

None. I have learned that emotions are of little use and many times a hindrance to clear thinking when considering, practicing, learning and working towards attaining my spiritual goals. It is difficult to separate the two but ends up working in a positive manner for me when I am able to do it.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Thank you so much! I see where you're coming from now. I guess you could say, "The ego spins emotions, just like some news shows spin the facts." Or could you?

I think it would a good way to phrase it.

 

[firedragon]

What role do your emotions play in your spirituality?

Before going further... yes, I fully realize this is RF and that our resident pettifoggers will be all over the title question as fast as flies on the fresh droppings of mountain goats, demanding to know what 'spirituality' means in this context, what 'emotions' are, and whether the promised 'role' will be served buttered or with olive oil. Yes. Yes, I know all of that -- in large part because I myself am one of RF's leading pettifoggers.

After all, Voltaire had a point when he said, "If you wish to converse with me, first define your terms".

So, let's get it over with. First, the commonsense disclaimer: News Flash: You are free to define your terms as you see fit (D'uh!), but please have the courtesy to make your meanings clear -- either implicitly or explicitly -- if you are using any terms in unconventional, 'non-dictionary' ways.

Next, the key term in dire need of definition here is "spirituality", is it not? I mean, the other terms are being used more or less in accordance with the deity-sanctioned Webster's and Oxford English Dictionaries, so no real need to define them (I hope).

Well, here goes then: In this context, 'spirituality' refers to the degree and manner in which a person manages, deals, or copes with their psychological self. And 'psychological self' refers to the thing you have been referencing nearly all your life when you refer to "I". "me", "myself", etc. That is, your psychological self is whatever it is that is 'you' as distinct from 'not-you'. e.g. if you think of 'you' as your thoughts, feelings, values, talents, and magazine subscriptions, then that is your psychological self (henceforth, just 'self') for the purposes of this thread.

For example, padawans, suppose you are one of those folks who self-identifies with a football team. Anyone who insults the team, insults you. When the team wins, you win. When the team loses, you lose. etc. etc. To one extent or another, you behave as if the team and you are the same thing. Suppose that were the case. Then that would be an example of the degree and manner in which you manage, deal, or cope with your 'self'.​

Again, for example, suppose you are one of those folks who self-identifies as a loving, caring spouse. Further suppose you goof up and say something hurtful to your spouse. Since you self-identify with being a loving, caring spouse, how you reconcile that self-image to your behavior of having goofed up will be indicative of how you manage, deal with, or cope with your self.​

To repeat: You are free to define 'spiritual' however you wish -- just please make clear how you are defining it.​

Do you have any intelligent questions now? More to the point, do you expect a dumbo like me to be capable of answering an intelligent question? What are you, some kind of gushing fountain of naivety?

So, with all of that said...

What role do your emotions play in your spirituality?

Specifically, in your spiritual progress? That is, in your becoming more and more skillful at managing, dealing with, or coping with your self?

In general, are your emotions your allies or your enemies in furthering the skillfulness with which you manage your self?

Do you self-identify with your emotions? Do you consider them part of 'you'?​

Also, please feel free to ask and/or answer any questions that are relevant to the topic and which you yourself think might be of interest to others.

Thank you for your time, patience, and any cake recipes you chose to PM me with.

Since of late I have answering to many posts like that with "subjective" as an answer and will do the same.

To me, spirituality is to act out what I was taught by my theology if I may use that phrase. Thus, giving loyalty to my wife, solutions to my customers, being fair, honest with dealings, not being racist, among many other things is spirituality to me.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

spirituality' refers to the degree and manner in which a person manages, deals, or copes with their psychological self.

Dear Sunstone

I have never thought of spirituality as defined in above quote - I love that I get to learn new ways of seeing things every day!

I interpreted your question as wanting to know how our emotions impact our spirituality and spontaneously, I was going to say that to me, it feels the opposite way round: my spirituality keeps my emotions in check and stops me from simply living by my [emotional] reaction to things.

Going back to your definition of spirituality: my response seems to support it rather well, I think.

Humbly
Hermit

 

[crossfire]

What role do your emotions play in your spirituality? ​

Transformational

Specifically, in your spiritual progress? That is, in your becoming more and more skillful at managing, dealing with, or coping with your self?

Yes, Transforming the obscuring emotions into useful psychological tools is a large part of my practice. An article I wrote about transforming anger into Great Mirror Wisdom can be found hidden behind spoiler tags here:
Anger

In general, are your emotions your allies or your enemies in furthering the skillfulness with which you manage your self?

No.

Do you self-identify with your emotions? Do you consider them part of 'you'?

​

I own them, but but don't identify with them.

 

[Clara Tea]

Everyone had parents. Virtually everyone had parents (or substitutes) raise them. When they skin their knee, they turn to their favorite parent (likely mommy), and ask if she can make it better. Perhaps by kissing it (germs), or putting antibiotic on it, or putting a band aid on it. If a big dog attacks, mommy might know what to do (run, fight, toss a doggy treat).

As adults, we sometimes wish for parental guidance, even though, some of us tragically lost our parents, and even those who have parents might not have parents powerful enough to help us. This prompts many of us to pray to God (whether or not God exists).

Sometimes events are so emotionally charged and tragic that parents can't fix them. Such was the case when my aunt had her second stillborn child. Poverty forced her to dig up her momma and and rebury her and bury her first stillborn child, then, a year later, poverty forced her to dig up her momma and her first stillborn child and rebury them with the second stillborn child (all in unmarked graves because no one could afford a marker).

How could my aunt wipe away the tears? How could she cope with the tragic loss of two children, especially considering the maternal bond that compels humans (and many other species) to clean the poop and feed their young. It is a bond that overcomes stink and expense, yet , my aunt's children were dead, and that maternal bond had no way of functioning.

My aunt turned to her Baptist roots, and joined a church which believed that they could writhe on the ground and jabber incoherently (talking in tongues). Do I disparage such behavior? No. I believe in ESP, and psychic communication, and believe that there is something out there that can organize information and some intelligence that is out there now. Was that intelligence God? Was that the creator of the world as the bible says? I don't know....but when I see that some psychics can predict future events, there is no doubt in my mind that some kind of psychic communication occurs, it is provable (by showing that future events can come true), and it is undeniable.

To atheists, talking in tongues is likely psychotic, and certainly the tragic events in my aunt's life could have driven her over the brink of insanity. This leads to a debate of insanity vs. religion.

RF has people of all religions, and even people of no religion. We should all respect each other's rights to believe or not). Calling names (pettifogger....someone who has petty cases or dubious practices) is demeaning. Sure, you can win an argument by making a laughing stock of your debate partners.....but what if they are right?

Many people who have been emotionally scarred turn to God, and many organizations lead them to God to keep them on the straight and narrow (keep them from stealing or turning to narcotics).

The Salvation Army is one of the few organizations that gives any (at all) of the donations that they receive to the poor, but even they demand group-led prayer to their particular God and religion (they are called rice Christians if they accept the deal....prayer for food).

Many charities accept donations, then the people running those organizations keep all of the money. I noticed that a person running a book drive for the library keep the expensive book donations for himself. I listened to a woman who cheated Goodwill of expensive antiques by dealing with the mentally retarded employee over an item that was held in reserve for the boss.

We like to think that charities are doing God's work, not merely collecting money for themselves and depriving the poor.

Famously, Reverend Jim and Tammy Fay Bakker took money for starving Africans, but, instead of giving to charity, they worked out a scheme to give their lawyer money, then lived in the lawyer's mansion (even putting in air conditioning in the mansion's dog house). Tammy Fay Bakker said that she had learned her lesson....not to get caught.

As we focus on the emotions that lead to spirituality, unscrupulous charlatans focus on taking our money. I was listening to a televangelist say that if you give him all of your money, your money will come back to you (by religious means) a hundred fold. You can pretty much bet that any preacher so focused on mammon, cannot be on the up and up. If we focus on the emotions that lead to spirituality, we might overlook the many who pray on those weakened by emotions who are desperate for have a parent or God figure and are willing to part with all of their money.

You call us "padawans" (fictional Jedi students), but talking down to us is wrong because we all have a right to form our own opinions.

Regarding the answering of questions....Socrates pointed out that by talking things over, one can obtain knowledge.