What say the scriptures?

[e.r.m.]

Tell me, then, when did Paul receive the Holy Spirit?

It doesn't say any thing like "Paul received the Holy Spirit when....". The closest the scriptures say is what Paul believed when or at point a person receives the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:2-5 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." [3] And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." [4] Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

The Holy Spirit, (the indwelling thereof) is received at belief which includes baptism in Jesus's name.

 

[e.r.m.]

Your welcome. If one reads without wanting to feel they already know, and really listens, it is striking: John is giving a "baptism of repentance", and when John is imprisoned, Christ then preaches a message of repentance and of the good news. This isn't a doctrine or an interpretation, but simply a direct conveyance of the text. It is ok to just hear the text, and live with it, as it is.

I agree, Christ did preach a message of repentance and of the good news.
Are you saying that, due to this similar preaching, baptism in Jesus's name after He was resurrected was a baptism of repentance?

 

[halbhh]

I agree, Christ did preach a message of repentance and of the good news.
Are you saying that, due to this similar preaching, baptism in Jesus's name after He was resurrected was a baptism of repentance?

That apparently is a classic view, because when I was young we moved a few times, and went to more than just 2 denominations, and in each baptism was about one being cleansed, by or through Christ. One is admitting they need cleansing. One is turning to Christ for their savior, leaving the old life behind, relying on Him to be cleansed of all past sins. So, it's repentance there in the confessing and turning away from the old life. (we know that later in time a baptized believer can stumble in significant ways at times, leading to a new need to confess/repent, as in 1rst John chapter 1, and again we are cleansed, through grace, because we have done that real confessing)

 

[e.r.m.]

That apparently is a classic view, because when I was young we moved a few times, and went to more than just 2 denominations, and in each baptism was about one being cleansed, by or through Christ.

In my life I've been a part of only three belief systems. Methodist, Baptist, and Church of Christ. I'm still not clear on Methodist teachings.

One is admitting they need cleansing. One is turning to Christ for their savior, leaving the old life behind, relying on Him to be cleansed of all past sins. So, it's repentance there in the confessing and turning away from the old life.

Thank you. I agree that all these are a part of baptism in Jesus's name, but for it to be a "written" purpose for baptism in Jesus's name there still has to be a written example or instruction thereof as of the point when it was first commanded, moving forward Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38-39.

(we know that later in time a baptized believer can stumble in significant ways at times, leading to a new need to confess/repent, as in 1rst John chapter 1, and again we are cleansed, through grace, because we have done that real confessing)

Agreed.

 

[Redemptionsong]

It doesn't say any thing like "Paul received the Holy Spirit when....". The closest the scriptures say is what Paul believed when or at point a person receives the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:2-5 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." [3] And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." [4] Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

The Holy Spirit, (the indwelling thereof) is received at belief which includes baptism in Jesus's name.

Your answer does not refer to Acts 9:17, which suggests that Ananias laid hands on Saul in order that he might be healed, and receive the Holy Spirit.

I agree that the Holy Spirit always comes from the Father and Son. But scripture also indicates that it can come from the Father, Son, through the elders of the Church. Here is what Timothy says, 'Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of hands of the presbytery.' (1 Timothy 4:14)

In this case, it is clear that the Holy Spirit is 'in thee', as the result of the laying on of hands. This makes absolute sense because the elders are sanctified members of the Body of Christ.

In Acts 2 there was no presbytery to convey the Holy Spirit. It came directly from heaven. In Acts 10, the Cornelius household received the gift before water baptism, but directly from God. This confirmed to Peter that it was God doing for the Gentiles what had been done for the Jews.

What is absolutely clear to me, is that the one baptism is made up of two parts - an earthly and a heavenly. The earthly part involves repenting and believing (turning to Christ in faith for the remission of sins). The heavenly part involves God's giving of the Holy Spirit in order to cleanse of sin, to sanctify and to justify.

The giving of the Holy Spirit must be God's decision based on whether the heart of the sinner is contrite and faithful. For this reason, Timothy says that the gift of Holy Spirit 'was given thee by prophecy'.

 

[e.r.m.]

Your answer does not refer to Acts 9:17, which suggests that Ananias laid hands on Saul in order that he might be healed, and receive the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for your patience.
You got me. I actually forgot about Acts 9:17.
Acts 9:17-18 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord---Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here---has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” [18] Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized,

Ananias told Saul that God had "sent" him so that Saul may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Ananias laid his hands on him & baptized him (unless there was someone else there to baptize him). The laying on of hands wasn't directly tied to him receiving the Holy Spirit, so it's no way to confirm that. In fact, vs. 12 only says
In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

That other part about be the Holy Spirit could be at baptism, especially given what Paul said in Acts 19:2-4.

I agree that the Holy Spirit always comes from the Father and Son. But scripture also indicates that it can come from the Father, Son, through the elders of the Church. Here is what Timothy says, 'Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of hands of the presbytery.' (1 Timothy 4:14)

In this case, it is clear that the Holy Spirit is 'in thee', as the result of the laying on of hands. This makes absolute sense because the elders are sanctified members of the Body of Christ.

In Acts 2 there was no presbytery to convey the Holy Spirit. It came directly from heaven.

Acts 19:5-6 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [6] When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

We don't know which gift Timothy was given, but we do know that "gifts" of the Holy Spirit were given through the laying on of hands as in the case above. As Paul said in the preceding verses, receiving the Holy Spirit comes at belief, which includes baptism in Jesus's name. Certain gifts came with laying on of the hands. They were thus baptized and Paul laid his hands on them and they got the "gifts" of speaking in tongues and prophesying. But as in Acts 8, this was not called "Baptism with the Holy Spirit".

In Acts 10, the Cornelius household received the gift before water baptism, but directly from God. 1

The Cornelius household received the gift of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on them before baptism, not was was spoken of in Romans 8:9, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19, which does come at baptism in Jesus's name Acts 2:38-39.
I agree that this event confirmed to Peter that it was God doing for the Gentiles what had been done for the Jews, but so that Peter would be willing to baptize them in Jesus's name Acts 10:45-47, Acts 11:16-17, because that's what Peter was moved to do.

What is absolutely clear to me, is that the one baptism is made up of two parts - an earthly and a heavenly. The earthly part involves repenting and believing (turning to Christ in faith for the remission of sins). The heavenly part involves God's giving of the Holy Spirit in order to cleanse of sin, to sanctify and to justify.

I thank you for sharing. With all due respect, I come to a different conclusion. No earthly and heavenly baptism. Being that Baptism with the Holy Spirit directly from Jesus/God Matthew 3:11, was so limited Acts 2 & 10:44-46, 11:15-16, and baptism in Jesus's name was so ubiquitous Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38-39, Acts 8:12-16, Acts 10:47-48, Acts 18:8 & 1 Corinthians 1:13, them O believe that one baptism was baptism in Jesus's name.
Ephesians 4:4-5 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; [5] one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

They were called to baptism in Jesus name Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38-39. They weren't "called" to baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The giving of the Holy Spirit must be God's decision based on whether the heart of the sinner is contrite and faithful. For this reason, Timothy says that the gift of Holy Spirit 'was given thee by prophecy'.

I am guessing that is referring to whatever gift or ability he received.

So, all in all, what is the written purpose for baptism in Jesus's name?

 

[Muffled]

There are no words
"Get baptize in order publicly identify with Jesus". That's called eisegesis.

I didn't get baptized. The church baptized me when they recognized that I was already a disciple. They were fulfilling the command of Jesus. I responded to an invitation by the church to do so.

 

[Muffled]

Are you saying the written purpose of baptism in Jesus's name is to be born again?

I believe the water is a symbol of being born again. It represents repentance. One can't be born again unless one repents his sins.

 

[Muffled]

Thank you, but this passage does not provide a written purpose of baptism in Jesus's name. It speaks of John's baptism, which was different Acts 18:24-26, Acts 19:3-5.

I believe the baptism in Jesus name draws from the Baptism of John and adds to it.

 

[e.r.m.]

One can't be born again unless one repents his sins

Agreed Acts 3:19.

I believe the water is a symbol of being born again. It represents repentance.

Ok, but that's a "traditional" teaching, not a "Biblical" teaching on baptism in Jesus's name.

What is the Biblical "written" purpose of baptism in Jesus's name?

 

[e.r.m.]

I believe the baptism in Jesus name draws from the Baptism of John and adds to it.

Ok, but what is the Biblically "stated" purpose of baptism in Jesus's name? Are you really proposing the Bible doesn't state such a purpose, and we are left with no recourse but to look at John's baptism?

 

[Iymus]

This might be a difficult question to answer:

What do the written scriptures say is the (or a) purpose of baptism in Jesus's name? Specifically, what do the texts say?

the way i perceive it, it is representation and conviction of receiving the Anointed of God "Lord's Anointed" and turning back to God thru spiritually cleansing our spirit from carnal infirmities and lusts.

Baptism represent spiritual cleansing as a bath or shower represents fleshly "bodily" cleansing

 

[e.r.m.]

the way i perceive it, it is representation and conviction of receiving the Anointed of God "Lord's Anointed" and turning back to God thru spiritually cleansing our spirit from carnal infirmities and lusts.

Baptism represent spiritual cleansing as a bath or shower represents fleshly "bodily" cleansing

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Despite asking what the written scriptural purpose for baptism in Jesus name is, I get a lot of "my perspective" type answers. Muffled also pointed back to his "belief" of the connection with John's baptism.
I wonder why.
Is what the Bible "says" no longer the source, that one instead develops "their own" belief on this matter? It sure seems so. Because if one were to actually go to the Bible for this answer, these personal beliefs may not be sustainable. If you believe the above stated belief is the Biblical position and not a man invented tradition, then show some statements in scriptures as to the purpose of baptism in Jesus's name. Amazing the lengths people (I'm not referring to you Lymus) go to to avoid doing this.

 

[e.r.m.]

Going forward, would anyone else (because there are those on this thread who have) like to try to answer the OP "with the Bible" ? Which is in fact built into the question in the op.

 

[Iymus]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Despite asking what the written scriptural purpose for baptism in Jesus name is, I get a lot of "my perspective" type answers. Muffled also pointed back to his "belief" of the connection with John's baptism.
I wonder why.
Is what the Bible "says" no longer the source, that one instead develops "their own" belief on this matter? It sure seems so. Because if one were to actually go to the Bible for this answer, these personal beliefs may not be sustainable. If you believe the above stated belief is the Biblical position and not a man invented tradition, then show some statements in scriptures as to the purpose of baptism in Jesus's name. Amazing the lengths people (I'm not referring to you Lymus) go to to avoid doing this.

0. The following below is still the way I perceive it but inclusive of verses. You might want to find a bishop with good report among his congregation "which is spoken about in 1 Timothy Chapter 3" for the insight you are looking for.

1. Remission of Sins; Cleansing the temple "body", allowing you to receive and be led by the spirit of Lord God and be joined unto Lord God

Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

2. Baptism of Jesus is inclusive of John's baptism because God anointed Christ with Holy Ghost and Power along with sending him in his name / authority. Essentially, Turning back to God is inclusive in accepting his anointed "Passover lamb ; sin remission" and receiving his Holy Spirit.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[e.r.m.]

0. The following below is still the way I perceive it but inclusive of verses. You might want to find a bishop with good report among his congregation "which is spoken about in 1 Timothy Chapter 3" for the insight you are looking for.

1. Remission of Sins; Cleansing the temple "body", allowing you to receive and be led by the spirit of Lord God and be joined unto Lord God

Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

2. Baptism of Jesus is inclusive of John's baptism because God anointed Christ with Holy Ghost and Power along with sending him in his name / authority. Essentially, Turning back to God is inclusive in accepting his anointed "Passover lamb ; sin remission" and receiving his Holy Spirit.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Thank you. I'll go over these after work.

 

[Iymus]

Thank you. I'll go over these after work.

emphasis on Joh 3:5 in my opinion. Christ had an interesting dialogue with Nicodemus in John Chapter 3 and John the Baptist also had an interesting dialogue with his own followers further down in the Chapter both of which I suspect is important in making the correlation with the importance of Christ baptism.

 

[Muffled]

Agreed Acts 3:19.

Ok, but that's a "traditional" teaching, not a "Biblical" teaching on baptism in Jesus's name.

What is the Biblical "written" purpose of baptism in Jesus's name?

I believe that is what Jesus said to do after making disciples.

 

[Muffled]

Ok, but what is the Biblically "stated" purpose of baptism in Jesus's name? Are you really proposing the Bible doesn't state such a purpose, and we are left with no recourse but to look at John's baptism?

This is definitely metaphor. No one ver buries a dead body in water except at sea.:

Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

 

[e.r.m.]

I believe that is what Jesus said to do after making disciples.

I agree with that as well, but for what "written" purpose?