What say the scriptures?

[e.r.m.]

21"Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened, 22and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son;c with you I am well pleased.”
16"And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son,d with whom I am well pleased.” Baptism of John was inducing NDE by slu16And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him,c and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son,d with whom I am well pleased.” slightly delaying letting up from the water. Kind of momentary visiting spirit world. Sin means not knowing the right way (see Strong's), by NDE sin - ignorance of spirit world was removed, which misconstrued into remission of sins.

Fascinating, but there's nothing in this text linking Jesus's baptism to baptism in His name that He commanded after He was resurrected. Do you know of a scripture that explicitly states a connection between these two baptisms?

 

[leov]

Fascinating, but there's nothing in this text linking Jesus's baptism to baptism in His name that He commanded after He was resurrected. Do you know of a scripture that explicitly states a connection between these two baptisms?

it was not a hair washing, it was the path made straight directly to spirit world, it comes from mysteries, old gnostic sources (Rudolf Steiner, for example), i do not expect that RCC on authority which the NT Scripture exists would go into such detail. It was, in a way, the meat.

 

[robocop (actually)]

This might be a difficult question to answer:

What do the written scriptures say is the (or a) purpose of baptism in Jesus's name? Specifically, what do the texts say?

I would say Jesus was baptized and he was an example. He said, "Come follow me," and "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

 

[leov]

I would say Jesus was baptized and he was an example. He said, "Come follow me," and "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Good point. Then John's Baptism should be a norm?

 

[robocop (actually)]

Good point. Then John's Baptism should be a norm?

I believe in baptism by immersion. However, when I was Raelian they had a very good reason by water to the forehead, so I'm not going to argue about how to do it.

 

[leov]

I believe in baptism by immersion. However, when I was Raelian they had a very good reason by water to the forehead, so I'm not going to argue about how to do it.

Fair enough, just note Paul's reaction in Acts 19.

 

[e.r.m.]

21"Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened, 22and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son;c with you I am well pleased.”
16"And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son,d with whom I am well pleased.” Baptism of John was inducing NDE by slu16And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him,c and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son,d with whom I am well pleased.” slightly delaying letting up from the water. Kind of momentary visiting spirit world. Sin means not knowing the right way (see Strong's), by NDE sin - ignorance of spirit world was removed, which misconstrued into remission of sins.

I've always seen in the Greek sins as misses, as in missing the mark.

Are you saying that Baptism in Jesus's name is for the purpose of removing ignorance of the spirit world and was mistranslated as remission of sins? And if so, can you give a scripture reference?
Thank you.

 

[e.r.m.]

It's about doing away with sins. For example in 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 we find that the children of Israel going through the Red Sea was a type of baptism. So that means Pharaoh and his army are a type of sin or guilt coming to capture and drag people back to Egypt which is their former sinful lives. (Which is why God says not to return to Egypt.)

But baptism is supposed to do away with that guilt as the Red Sea did away with Pharaoh and the army of Egypt. Also we know even the color red is associated with sin in Isaiah 1:18. So it's fitting it was the Red Sea.

This is why Peter makes it clear that baptism isn't about washing the body but the conscience. And he compares baptism to when Noah and his family were saved in the ark.

1 Peter 3:20-21
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Then as pointed out with the passage from Romans; even Jesus must be talking about water baptism when He says "born of the water" in John 3:3-5. This means when people come out of the water it is like being born anew from the water and shows they plan to live a life as if free from their old sins.

And so freeing people from sin and giving them a heart that is repentant; water baptism prepares people for the baptism that only Jesus can give which is the baptism of the holy Spirit.

Although I agree with your John 3 assessment, I'm going just go with 1 Peter 3:21 because it is stated explicitly that baptism is about washing the conscience. It also states
even baptism doth also now save us, since we're making reference to that passage.

So so far we have Romans 6:3-4, Acts 2:38, and 1 Peter 3:21 as passages where a purpose for baptism is written. Any more?

 

[e.r.m.]

it was not a hair washing, it was the path made straight directly to spirit world, it comes from mysteries, old gnostic sources (Rudolf Steiner, for example), i do not expect that RCC on authority which the NT Scripture exists would go into such detail. It was, in a way, the meat.

Sorry, but this thread is based on what the scriptures say, not gnostic sources. I'm familiar with the gnostic knowledge fascination, but that's a whole other discussion meant for another thread.

 

[leov]

I've always seen in the Greek sins as misses, as in missing the mark.

Are you saying that Baptism in Jesus's name is for the purpose of removing ignorance of the spirit world and was mistranslated as remission of sins? And if so, can you give a scripture reference?
Thank you.

"an error of the understanding" Strong's Greek: 266. ἁμαρτία (hamartia) -- a sin, failure
I.e. Ignorance, this how Gnostics understand it and therefore what Christ is doing for is.
Touching division of soul and spirit 1Cor 2, natural (soul) types would consider sin as transgression, while spiritual knows that sin is really ignorance of True God.
16"but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away."

 

[e.r.m.]

I would say Jesus was baptized and he was an example. He said, "Come follow me," and "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

That may be a good connection if it was ever stated "get baptized in order to follow Jesus's example", but that is not "written", that's just guessed. I never read of anyone in the NT who got baptized like Jesus did to "fulfill all righteousness", nor anyone other than Jesus who could.

 

[leov]

Fascinating, but there's nothing in this text linking Jesus's baptism to baptism in His name that He commanded after He was resurrected. Do you know of a scripture that explicitly states a connection between these two baptisms?

Connection is faith, which is God's action persuading.

Sorry, but this thread is based on what the scriptures say, not gnostic sources. I'm familiar with the gnostic knowledge fascination, but that's a whole other discussion meant for another thread.

Gnosticism is not a religion, it is a method to know True God.
11"When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

 

[e.r.m.]

"an error of the understanding" Strong's Greek: 266. ἁμαρτία (hamartia) -- a sin, failure
I.e. Ignorance, this how Gnostics understand it and therefore what Christ is doing for is.
Touching division of soul and spirit 1Cor 2, natural (soul) types would consider sin as transgression, while spiritual knows that sin is really ignorance of True God.
16"but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away."

Yeah, that sounds gnostic alright. That whole physical/natural and spiritual dichotomy, which the early Church Fathers warned against as it did not rear it's head until well after the first century.

ἁμαρτία,n \{ham-ar-tee'-ah}
1) equivalent to 264 1a) to be without a share in 1b) to miss the mark 1c) to err, be mistaken 1d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong 1e) to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin 2) that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act 3) collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many

This is how sin is defined.

 

[leov]

Yeah, that sounds gnostic alright. That whole physical/natural and spiritual dichotomy, which the early Church Fathers warned against as it did not rear it's head until well after the first century.

ἁμαρτία,n \{ham-ar-tee'-ah}
1) equivalent to 264 1a) to be without a share in 1b) to miss the mark 1c) to err, be mistaken 1d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong 1e) to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin 2) that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act 3) collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many

This is how sin is defined.

It is not only how it was understood. There is another word - transgression.

 

[robocop (actually)]

That may be a good connection if it was ever stated "get baptized in order to follow Jesus's example", but that is not "written", that's just guessed. I never read of anyone in the NT who got baptized like Jesus did to "fulfill all righteousness", nor anyone other than Jesus who could.

Then we just go to the start of Acts 19 like leov said.

 

[e.r.m.]

Connection is faith, which is God's action persuading.

Sorry, but that's not a verse in the Bible, which is what is requested.

Gnosticism is not a religion, it is a method to know True God.
11"When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

I know Gnosticism is not a religion. It sets up camp in different religions and attempts to influence them from within. Any belief system can find passages that contain words similar to their beliefs until properly scrutinized and revealed as contradictory to the message. But Jesus did come in physical form and died in a physical body for our sins and was resurrected in his physical body as well as spiritual.

1 John 4:2-3 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, [3] but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

 

[e.r.m.]

Then we just go to the start of Acts 19 like leov said.

Explain please.

 

[e.r.m.]

It is not only how it was understood. There is another word - transgression.

Agreed, and that's a synonym to sin.

 

[leov]

Sorry, but that's not a verse in the Bible, which is what is requested.

I know Gnosticism is not a religion. It sets up camp in different religions and attempts to influence them from within. Any belief system can find passages that contain words similar to their beliefs until properly scrutinized and revealed as contradictory to the message. But Jesus did come in physical form and died in a physical body for our sins and was resurrected in his physical body as well as spiritual.

1 John 4:2-3 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, [3] but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

That is root of Greek word faith 'pistis', persuasion.
God is One and only for all. Cultures and times are different, connection with spirit word is of the same nature for all, 'spirit and truth' and this the base behind baptism of John.

 

[leov]

Agreed, and that's a synonym to sin.

Soul nature see sins as transgressions because they do not understand spirit fully, spiritual nature understands sin as ignorance of understanding that leads to transgressions.