What the "Holy Book" permits . . .

[DawudTalut]

Allah refuses to give homosexuals a healthy sexuality when they pray and travail and beg to not be that way.

Allah leaves them homosexual.It Iis not ttheir fault, nearly all dont want to be that way.

Why you judge Allah and you even do not believe Him or His Book and abuse His Holy Prophet and also abuse Holy Prophets of your own Bible.?

First passing a wrong judgement then making a castle of sand on that.

Why G and L are increasing? Think about that. How many are real and how many are temporary. Obviously societies are not moving in right directions, children are neglected and abused by many type of people (sitters, parents, relatives etc), mix gender societies are increasing, as soon as hormones change take place, children start to act like married people with most suffering to girls, alcohol, drugs , eating food which was prohibited by God (for human benefit) and many things.......all this has lead to What you are blaming God for.

Now what to do? Bring them in main stream genders with affection and kindness.

 

[Spiderman]

I like the southern part of your post.
you Muslims are so simple its cute

Why you judge Allah and you even do not believe Him or His Book and abuse His Holy Prophet and also abuse Holy Prophets of your own Bible.?

First passing a wrong judgement then making a castle of sand on that.

Why G and L are increasing? Think about that. How many are real and how many are temporary. Obviously societies are not moving in right directions, children are neglected and abused by many type of people (sitters, parents, relatives etc), mix gender societies are increasing, as soon as hormones change take place, children start to act like married people with most suffering to girls, alcohol, drugs , eating food which was unpermitted by God (for human benefit) and many things.......all this has lead to What you are blaming God for.

Now what to do? Bring them in main stream genders with affection and kindness.

 

[LuisDantas]

@SaintMatthew : I want to make it clear that the help homosexuals and other LGBT people need is full acceptance and respect for their sexuality as it is. For homosexuals that means stopping attempts to change them, for transexuals it means helping them in changing as they want to. We should not attempt to cause them conflicts that have no reason to exist.

Why you judge Allah and you even do not believe Him or His Book and abuse His Holy Prophet and also abuse Holy Prophets of your own Bible.?

Everyone should judge Allah, or God, or Amaterasu, or Ganesha, or whoever, and continuously so at that. Unless they don't care about those deities, that is.

How else would it be possible to be good devotees?

How else could they trust their deities of choice?

First passing a wrong judgement then making a castle of sand on that.

Why G and L are increasing? Think about that.

To the extent they are, it seems to be mostly because our social demands are so much higher.

But for the most part it seems that it is acknowledgement, not incidence, that is raising.

But I insist and repeat, it is wrong and disrespectful to treat LGBT as something to be "avoided".

If any God fails to realize that, then he is a moron (or worse) and therefore completely unworthy of my attention or respect. If any religion insists that God exists and demands that I disapprove of LGBT people or fail to fully accept them, then I will know that religion to be misguided. Automatically. And I will no longer be able of taking that misguided religion seriously.

Religious doctrine can't over-rule what I know to be true. Simple like that.

How many are real and how many are temporary.

LGBT, you mean? I take it that you perceive it as something of a fad as opposed to a legitimate reality that needs acceptance and respect?

I fear you are not alone. I know you are wrong nevertheless. I will not give you an inch.

Obviously societies are not moving in right directions, children are neglected and abused by many type of people (sitters, parents, relatives etc), mix gender societies are increasing, as soon as hormones change take place, children start to act like married people with most suffering to girls, alcohol, drugs , eating food which was unpermitted by God (for human benefit) and many things.......all this has lead to What you are blaming God for.

I do blame excessive attachment to beliefs that justify themselves with belief in God for the grave disrespect for LGBT, and your implication that LGBT is hurting society is a good example.

The closest I can come to agree with you is by emphasizing that family is a serious, important thing. Children need access to good, solid parental roles and a healthy extended family. But that in no way implies that those parental roles must or even should be particularly traditional. And that is certainly no excuse to try and force them out of their natural sexualities, which will of course sometimes be LGBT.

LGBT must be respected. And respect is acceptance, not pressure into conforming.

Come to think of it, this reminds me of how many Muslims claim to respect atheists and even Christians ("there is no compulsion in religion") all the while failing utterly to realize that "respect" does not mean "waiting patiently for us to submit".

Now what to do? Bring them in main stream genders with affection and kindness.

Sorry, Dawud. I'm pretty certain that you mean well. But you are just wrong in assuming that it is possible to "heal" homosexuality and transexuality without commiting grievous, deeply disrespectful violence.

I can't respect what you are saying, and I will not try to.

It is all-out shameful for anyone, of any religion, to attempt to force LGBT into "conforming" to other people's expectations. To call that healing is obscene. To justify that with religious beliefs is a major reason why religion is mistrusted these days.

 

[Midget01]

I have noticed a new trend amongst religious reformists. When they bring forth often radical or heterodox opinions they always try backing it with their religious text that is the core of their religion. The issue is that very few progressive ideas have any place in many religions. Homosexuality, peace, or even marrying a person outside of one's faith is disliked by many religions.

Why is it that the religious can never back their assertions with reason instead of appeals to a holy book? Is it that the religious are intellectually bankrupt that they cannot be reasoned with?[/
Since the reformation man has discovered they can create their own religious; call it what they like and apply and justify any rule. That does not make it true. Prior to the Reformation God gave the rules to Moses and the Jewish faith Catholic Faith ( of all sects East and West) are in agreement. Religion is not like a cafeteria where you pick and chose. If you are convinced you are of one of these faiths you follow the rules or you are not a true believe. Perhaps one does not know what it means to believe. That is to accept what is taught as truth. If you want to change it you have already decided not to believe. If you continue to attend services does not mean because you are there you are a believer it simply means you are practicing an empty value for you. You are actually practicing heresy because you are not what you say you are. Today our world is full of people like this and they want to change everything because it is too hard to do what the Church teaches. God start a church and tell us to design it to fit the sinners needs. The church was created to help the sinner learn his evil ways and to improve his life so that he might be more acceptable for God. God is the only one who knows our hearts but much is expected from those who have the knowledge and know what they are suppose to do. That does not mean the others don't have to do anything to get to heaven. When they reach the pearly Gates God will know if you did anything to try to understand what is right. The trying is what makes the difference. Being Ignorant is not acceptable in the secular court of law such as moving to another state and trying to drive. The police will still give you a ticket if you break the law. The same is true with God's kingdom. So for that reason it is never too soon to start working on improving yourself for heaven. But it is your choice and I know some people wait until the last minute. But I would beg to ask you to think that one never knows when his end is near. The Cannons of the Church are long time transcribed and understood by many. They are given to the Church by God only God can change them. If you are a member of a church after 1500's then you might have never understood this concept and may find yourself in a bit of a dilemma when St. Peter meet's you at the gate with why in the world have you been doing some of the things you think are acceptable. We can't change God's laws because we don't like His ways. He is God and it is His heaven. If you don't think you'll go or don't want to go there lead the life you wish but what if all of the early churches are right?

 

[Midget01]

@SaintMatthew : I want to make it clear that the help homosexuals and other LGBT people need is full acceptance and respect for their sexuality as it is. For homosexuals that means stopping attempts to change them, for transexuals it means helping them in changing as they want to. We should not attempt to cause them conflicts that have no reason to exist.




Everyone should judge Allah, or God, or Amaterasu, or Ganesha, or whoever, and continuously so at that. Unless they don't care about those deities, that is.

How else would it be possible to be good devotees?

How else could they trust their deities of choice?




To the extent they are, it seems to be mostly because our social demands are so much higher.

But for the most part it seems that it is acknowledgement, not incidence, that is raising.

But I insist and repeat, it is wrong and disrespectful to treat LGBT as something to be "avoided".

If any God fails to realize that, then he is a moron (or worse) and therefore completely unworthy of my attention or respect. If any religion insists that God exists and demands that I disapprove of LGBT people or fail to fully accept them, then I will know that religion to be misguided. Automatically. And I will no longer be able of taking that misguided religion seriously.

Religious doctrine can't over-rule what I know to be true. Simple like that.




LGBT, you mean? I take it that you perceive it as something of a fad as opposed to a legitimate reality that needs acceptance and respect?

I fear you are not alone. I know you are wrong nevertheless. I will not give you an inch.




I do blame excessive attachment to beliefs that justify themselves with belief in God for the grave disrespect for LGBT, and your implication that LGBT is hurting society is a good example.

The closest I can come to agree with you is by emphasizing that family is a serious, important thing. Children need access to good, solid parental roles and a healthy extended family. But that in no way implies that those parental roles must or even should be particularly traditional. And that is certainly no excuse to try and force them out of their natural sexualities, which will of course sometimes be LGBT.

LGBT must be respected. And respect is acceptance, not pressure into conforming.

Come to think of it, this reminds me of how many Muslims claim to respect atheists and even Christians ("there is no compulsion in religion") all the while failing utterly to realize that "respect" does not mean "waiting patiently for us to submit".



Sorry, Dawud. I'm pretty certain that you mean well. But you are just wrong in assuming that it is possible to "heal" homosexuality and transexuality without commiting grievous, deeply disrespectful violence.

I can't respect what you are saying, and I will not try to.

It is all-out shameful for anyone, of any religion, to attempt to force LGBT into "conforming" to other people's expectations. To call that healing is obscene. To justify that with religious beliefs is a major reason why religion is mistrusted these days.

@SaintMatthew : I want to make it clear that the help homosexuals and other LGBT people need is full acceptance and respect for their sexuality as it is. For homosexuals that means stopping attempts to change them, for transexuals it means helping them in changing as they want to. We should not attempt to cause them conflicts that have no reason to exist.




Everyone should judge Allah, or God, or Amaterasu, or Ganesha, or whoever, and continuously so at that. Unless they don't care about those deities, that is.

How else would it be possible to be good devotees?

How else could they trust their deities of choice?




To the extent they are, it seems to be mostly because our social demands are so much higher.

But for the most part it seems that it is acknowledgement, not incidence, that is raising.

But I insist and repeat, it is wrong and disrespectful to treat LGBT as something to be "avoided".

If any God fails to realize that, then he is a moron (or worse) and therefore completely unworthy of my attention or respect. If any religion insists that God exists and demands that I disapprove of LGBT people or fail to fully accept them, then I will know that religion to be misguided. Automatically. And I will no longer be able of taking that misguided religion seriously.

Religious doctrine can't over-rule what I know to be true. Simple like that.




LGBT, you mean? I take it that you perceive it as something of a fad as opposed to a legitimate reality that needs acceptance and respect?

I fear you are not alone. I know you are wrong nevertheless. I will not give you an inch.




I do blame excessive attachment to beliefs that justify themselves with belief in God for the grave disrespect for LGBT, and your implication that LGBT is hurting society is a good example.

The closest I can come to agree with you is by emphasizing that family is a serious, important thing. Children need access to good, solid parental roles and a healthy extended family. But that in no way implies that those parental roles must or even should be particularly traditional. And that is certainly no excuse to try and force them out of their natural sexualities, which will of course sometimes be LGBT.

LGBT must be respected. And respect is acceptance, not pressure into conforming.

Come to think of it, this reminds me of how many Muslims claim to respect atheists and even Christians ("there is no compulsion in religion") all the while failing utterly to realize that "respect" does not mean "waiting patiently for us to submit".



Sorry, Dawud. I'm pretty certain that you mean well. But you are just wrong in assuming that it is possible to "heal" homosexuality and transexuality without commiting grievous, deeply disrespectful violence.

I can't respect what you are saying, and I will not try to.

It is all-out shameful for anyone, of any religion, to attempt to force LGBT into "conforming" to other people's expectations. To call that healing is obscene. To justify that with religious beliefs is a major reason why religion is mistrusted these days.

I have nothing against my brother or sister liking what they like. But even us Heterosexuals get into sin and it is disapproved by God when we have sex outside of marriage. Since God would not condone 2 of the same species to enter act and unite; if they did it would be considered a sin because it goes against the laws of nature. While humans have labeled the name of the interaction of 2 of opposite sex as marriage which makes it possible to produce offspring there is no word to define the interaction of a union between same sex unions which do not produce offspring. The Church receives it's laws from God and cannot alter these dogmas. They can only change those which were man made. They can call themselves anything they want but the fact that they cannot reproduce makes them not a candidate for the term Marriage. God designed marriage as a way to procreate and fill this earth. He did not say go out play games with sex and enjoy this earth I have created for you. The secular world tells people this is ok that it doesn't matter what your God expects of you. The secular world thinks and acts like they are control of God's Kingdom and this is not the case. If our society wants to make rules for those who are Gay or transvestites that is up to the people to vote for or against but they cannot make rules that govern God's Church and this affects the families and how people think morally. If they truly feel a need to have a permanent union they can make legal agreements and let the government approve of them like corporations or legal agreements. They may even chose a catchy name but they can not use the term marriage because the act in which they participate does not hold the same meaning. Church and State are separate in this country and should remain that way. This act does not have the same significance for the God as it does for the men of this nation. Those who as to be married in a church do not have any idea of how God and or the church views these moral legal commitments. Our society has lost control over their morals and does not take church laws seriously to begin with and are now adding to the idea that marriage is something a gay wants to have It would appear that many people in this country have no problem disagreeing with many Churches and then end up forming a church of their. While I myself would not join I do not tell others they can't do that. So if they wish to do so would be their choice. What most people object to is being forced to change things and being mad to do things that are considered sinful to them. What others do does have an affect on everyone. There is nothing that happens even behind clothes doors that does not eventually become public. One can not try to change the laws of our country and say I am not hurting anyone by living my life the way I want to. People who do that live with their heads in the ground like an Ostrich. Once another person becomes involved with anyone automatically you have affected the whole family theirs as well as yours- for the better or the worst. If religion is mistrusted today it's because those who choose to sin make up lies about what it represents without proper knowledge and the people who were not truly rooted in it begin to believe them. Not everyone believes such people. This is not of God and the fruit will reveal itself. That is where the truth lies in His story.

 

[jtartar]

I have noticed a new trend amongst religious reformists. When they bring forth often radical or heterodox opinions they always try backing it with their religious text that is the core of their religion. The issue is that very few progressive ideas have any place in many religions. Homosexuality, peace, or even marrying a person outside of one's faith is disliked by many religions.

Why is it that the religious can never back their assertions with reason instead of appeals to a holy book? Is it that the religious are intellectually bankrupt that they cannot be reasoned with?

Sha'irullah,
You have to be joking!!!
Who is the one in all the universe that has the greatest mind?? I would say it is the one who is Perfect in Knowledge, God Himself, Job 36:4,37:16, Isa 55:8,9.
If you are a Christian, you know it is God you are supposed to put your trust in, and not try to DOPE OUT answers from your own mind. Do you think you, or any man could possibly reason out something from your own mind that could be better, in any way than what God says, in His book, The Holy Bible? Prov 3:5,6.
Think about this; God does not make laws arbitrarily, He makes laws that are good for us, whoever listens, Deut 10;13, Isa 48:17.
If a person knows how to use the scriptures, you will find that they apply to everything on this earth, past present and future, Matt 6:8. If you understand the Holy Scriptures, they answer all our questions, Gen 40:8, Dan 2:22,28.
Anyone who wants to take any man's reasoning above The Almighty God's does not care about life, because man does not even know how to take his next step in a secure and safe way, Jere 10:23. Even though a perso thinks he is right, he might very well be on a path of death, Prov 16:5. Trust in God, and His word, because His word is the only real truth, John 17:17.

 

[arthra]

I have noticed a new trend amongst religious reformists. When they bring forth often radical or heterodox opinions they always try backing it with their religious text that is the core of their religion. The issue is that very few progressive ideas have any place in many religions. Homosexuality, peace, or even marrying a person outside of one's faith is disliked by many religions.

Why is it that the religious can never back their assertions with reason instead of appeals to a holy book? Is it that the religious are intellectually bankrupt that they cannot be reasoned with?

For Baha'is anyway I would say that there are both progressive ideas, use of logic and reason and support from the Baha'i Writings. The Writings clearly support the equality of men and women, a world parliament and international court of arbitration to establish world peace, reducing the extremes of wealth and poverty, universal education, eliminating racism and class prejudice.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Homosexuality, peace, or even marrying a person outside of one's faith is disliked by many religions.

Hinduism did not have a problem with homosexuality although it would not be the way for most people. West seems to be promoting it. There are limits to peace. Marrying within the fold conserves the traditions of the fold and because of commonalities, reduces chances of friction.

Supreme Court recognizes transgenders as 'third gender' - The Times of India
Indian Government Objects to Supreme Court Ruling on Transgender Rights - India Real Time - WSJ
From the second link: "India has a diverse transgender community. The most publicly-visible group, the Hijras, are considered sacred according to some Hindu texts. Today they are one of India’s most marginalized communities."
They are rich. Their Delhi chief moves in a Merc.
http://www.indiatvnews.com/crime/news/delhi-police-unearths-eunuchs-murder-mystery--1263.html

 

[Levite]

I have noticed a new trend amongst religious reformists. When they bring forth often radical or heterodox opinions they always try backing it with their religious text that is the core of their religion. The issue is that very few progressive ideas have any place in many religions. Homosexuality, peace, or even marrying a person outside of one's faith is disliked by many religions.

Why is it that the religious can never back their assertions with reason instead of appeals to a holy book? Is it that the religious are intellectually bankrupt that they cannot be reasoned with?

I suppose that religious progressives-- among whom I would surely count myself-- do not view their own religious traditions as either inherently unethical or inherently rigid. Rather, they probably believe that their tradition is subject to interpretation and is intended to promote ethical behavior. So the notion of a dualistic opposition between a monolithic "authentic" interpretation of their scripture versus "heterodox" progressive ideas based in evolving ethical awareness is simply not a construction or paradigm to which they subscribe.

Certainly amongst Jews, we progressive Jews see our tradition as actively promoting the evolution of religious thought through the foundation of vigorous encouragement to interpret and reinterpret that already existed in the teachings of the Rabbis of the Talmud. Judaism, with its pairing of Written Torah and Oral Torah, has a scriptural tradition already set up to avoid literalism and to be inclusive of new ways of looking at text.

The idea that "very few progressive ideas have any place in many religions" is one that any progressive Jew would reject as profoundly un-Jewish. And I would presume, based upon my collegial friendships with progressive Christian clergy and Islamic scholars, that progressive religious people of those traditions would similarly reject such an idea as "un-Christian" or "un-Islamic."

I think a major part of why religious fundamentalists cannot understand those positions is that they presume that it is only religious fundamentalism that has true authenticity: that only their own readings and understandings of their religion's sacred texts are "true" and valid. So they see religious progressives as radicals attempting to force incompatible novelties into the "legitimate" form of religion. Whereas progressive religious people do not see the fundamentalist position and understanding as uniquely authentic, or necessarily authentic at all. They may not even embrace a notion that there is such a thing as a single, uniquely authentic interpretation of their scripture/tradition.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

aving big ego's

I don't like the way he and other religious people blame homosexuals as being at war with God.

As if it is their fault.

I feel sorry for them and people should be trying to help them​

I agree with you.
Each and everyone of us are 'given' burdens by birth. Such as homosexuality, being albino, dyslexia , born with huge noses, having big ego's, fear of failure etc etc etc.
I believe that God has given us these burdens not to punish us but to see how we deal with these burdens. Eventually we will all be judged by our actions.