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"What the Left Hand Path is to Me": a collection of interpretations of the LHP

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
This is part experiment, part education, part ice breaker. Things have been tense here to the point where all we do is bicker over definitions and histories rather than ideas, methods, and goals. I'd like all of us to simply post here what your understanding of the LHP is. What are your goals, your methods, where does your tradition stem from? I'd even like to explicitly keep it subjective, meaning who care if the tradition is entirely authentic or original, this is just about looking at the paradigms of others. I'd also like to avoid all debate on these topics in this thread. This is a thread meant for teaching and learning, asking and answering.

As I'd like this to be rather in depth please take your time. I will be making my post after work. I also know we've all elaborated on this through out the forum, but it would be great to collect all that data. Feel free to copy and paste, ramble, anything you need.
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
when I get home I might be able to answer more fully (depends if I can get my connection to work again).

But briefly;

My understanding the Left Hand Path is individualistic heterodoxy that either ignores or denies dichotomies of good and evil, pure and impure, and seeks to use ritual and certain taboos for a way to help aid in breaking down these dichotomies as well as to further one's progression on the path towards deification.it practices vary by culture but even then how it works in particular will vary based on tradition and individual.

This definition of mine includes both eastern and western versions of the practice as I have done both before and I see them as basically the same thing. The main difference when I moved over from 'western' to 'eastern' is I went from dualism to nondualism. It took me a while to reconcile the desire for preserving my personality but I found the answer in Kashmir Shaivism.

In it's view (such as with the Spanda system) one realizes they were the Universe/God (personified as Shiva) all along with the female or shakti being seen as their own manifestation of their will (to put it in western LHP language). In eastern language this would be expressed as "divine creative aspect". Also in this context shakti or the female refers to the changing, non static physical material world which is considered to be real unlike many other forms of Hinduism which are ideal and see the world as an illusion to be destroyed.in kashmir shaivism, it's real and so isn't destroyed and even the mind/heart/self/personality lives on now as the realized god, with the universe at their finger tips as their own expression of creation. this could be described as the ultimate form of magic.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
The *H☿D (Herald of the Dawn) understands the **Objective Universe (OU) to be nothing more than a mechanized process of creation and destruction and although beneficial in some ways when harmonized with, we seek to separate from it. The WLHP of H☿D is the conscious effort to realize one's higher Self and to bring this Self into one's mundane self as often as possible thus coming to know one's truest / perfect Self while incarnate.

  • *H☿D: a unique Luciferian Order. Our ultimate focus is on developing Mercurius Consciousness through a personal alchemy leading to discourse with our personal Dæmon and eventual self-deification. Our other function is as a fraternal organization providing a common purpose and quality of Mercuræn Brother/Sisterhood.
  • **Objective Universe: things are as they "are." Time, space, matter, energy, etc. Also associated with God, the Absolute, Nature, The All, etc.
 

Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
This is part experiment, part education, part ice breaker. Things have been tense here to the point where all we do is bicker over definitions and histories rather than ideas, methods, and goals. I'd like all of us to simply post here what your understanding of the LHP is. What are your goals, your methods, where does your tradition stem from? I'd even like to explicitly keep it subjective, meaning who care if the tradition is entirely authentic or original, this is just about looking at the paradigms of others. I'd also like to avoid all debate on these topics in this thread. This is a thread meant for teaching and learning, asking and answering.

As I'd like this to be rather in depth please take your time. I will be making my post after work. I also know we've all elaborated on this through out the forum, but it would be great to collect all that data. Feel free to copy and paste, ramble, anything you need.

My own understanding of the LHP or western LHP is self deification, the antinomian consciousness inside of you, the rejection of the mainstream society, seeking a non union with the universe, indulging and breaking every taboo which restrains you, seeking self liberation and empowerment. My goals in the Left Hand Path is simply to self empower myself, to gain full knowledge, Liberation on reducing restraints and past indoctrination by the dark and powerful archetypes, and also to experiment with the use of self deification in rituals and magic and also to attain a certain goal or desire. My methods on attaining empowerment and self Liberation and parts of self deification is from the use of rituals and magic as I have explained earlier. My tradition stems from Satanism and that of LaVeys philosophy of social Darwinism and atheistic hedonism and epicureanism, my own belief systems is that of the flesh esoterically speaking. I regard Satan symbolically and as an archetype more or less as an adversary and an opposer, my beliefs are mainly about indulging and by breaking away taboos. We indulge mainly in some things such as Pride or Carnality. We also as Satanists tend to embrace nature, and we also have a belief on an eye for an eye morality, individualism, and that of elitism and that of egoism from the standpoint of the Church of Satan. Our Philosophy tends to be egotistic as you might say its more or less self centered. Our views on Magic is different, we do not exactly Label magic as black nor white, "magic is magic" on which I consider it a good term on remaining neutral. I am however starting to become more or less of a self styled Satanist, I have been getting involved with magic for a while. I perform my solitary working and rituals creatively. Such as meditation before my workings, or charging sigils before or in the middle of my working, I also tend to use imagery and the use of visualizations and that of the 5 physical senses. I also tend to mix evocations with my workings at times, I tend to find evocation to be more or less successful than invocations. I have been getting involved in music heavily, I am starting to add ritual music. I've started noticing many changes on my rituals where I actually experienced something and felt something inside of me on which I consider to be the black flame, the gift of consciousness. My beliefs have changed during my magical workings. I do mainly solitary greater magic, I don't really do lesser magic. I also perform other forms of Magic as well ranging from Michael W. Fords rituals on which I find some to be of use, and some of Don Webbs rituals. I have also been thinking about on constructing my rites independently.
 
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Some people have referred to chaos magic as a left hand path tradition. I'm not entirely sure I agree with the label for chaos magic in general, but I consider myself to be LHP.

What this means to me is that my religious focus is mainly towards self-improvement rather than salvation or the like. I'm not trying to win the favor of some god or earn a seat in the afterlife of my choice. I'm just trying to make my own life better.

I'd consider myself a moral nihilist as well, so I don't really fret too much with the notions of good and evil, or whether the LHP is evil or not. To me there isn't black magic or white magic, there's just magic, and it's all fundamentally the same.

My weekly practice involves sigils, occasional ritual work, lesser magic, and meditation. My meditations are usually what I'd call "walking meditations" in that most of the time I literally just go for a walk with headphones in while meditating. As far as what I call lesser magic, I practice things like visualization, object concentration, and such. I also have two tarot decks and a pendulum that I dust off and work with every once in a while.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
To me the Western Left Hand Path is founded upon self-deification, individuation, and duality. This is what, to my knowledge at least, really separates the east and west paths. I would not say that I am heterodox, but I do find toying with the cultural psyche rather pleasing and enlightening. Rather than heterodoxy in the sense of breaking rules just to break them, I take it as kind of looking at culture and laughing. If LaVey did one thing right it was that! There is just something freeing in it. As for breaking actual laws, values, traditions, etc., I only break what I want to, and follow what I agree with. I don't judge a value or norm simply based on how popular it is, rather how much I, personally, agree with it. I have no problem agreeing with the powers that be when we are on the same page, in fact it can add a whole lot of power to your arsenal!

To me, the individual is the foundation of pretty much everything. If individuals fall apart then society falls apart. To me, the WLHP is similar in a lot of ways to the psychology of self-actualization. We have to meet our basic needs before our intellectual needs, and we also have to take care of ourselves before others. A key to this is understanding one's proper path through life, called their True Will in Thelema. If you desire to be a doctor, and let your parents pressure you into taking over the family law firm, you're putting yourself further away from individuation and self-actualization. We have to know ourselves and continuously work on ourselves, creating an ever more higher self.

I also think one of the most important aspects for me is the understanding that the human mind is capable of doing unnatural things, such as reconditioning itself, manipulating its environment, or even just thinking abstractly and creating meaning. Whether or not this is an emergent property or a "gift of Set" doesn't even really matter to me, what matters is how we are now. This is not to say that I think humans are separated from nature or not animals, we simply have a very, very beneficial traits in our isolate intelligence. I believe we should utilize this, both to self-actualize and to help others do so as well. I actually consider myself rather altruistic, and have dedicated my life to helping individuals self-actualize. I hope to continue this process eternally, ever setting myself more and more apart from the Will of Nature.
 
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EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Conclusion thus far . . .
It would seem that many of us see little if no distinction between the so called "eastern" and "western" Left Hand Path, while others see them as totally different.
Historically the term Left Hand Path falls into one of 5 categories:

  1. Original Left Hand Path, usually Tantric, from religions like Hinduism and Buddhism.
  2. Referring to "black magic" or "bad" or failed" practitioners. Used by people like Blavatsky and Crowley.
  3. To refer to hedonistic/egotistical philosophies with moral relativism (such as LaVeyan Satanism).
  4. Used by western occult groups like the Typhonian Order who used the term in a way pretty close to #1.
  5. In 1992 the book "Lords of the Left Hand Path" was written using a much newer definition of the term making a fifth designation.

The Eastern Left Hand Path follow the idea that all which exists is sacred (Pantheism), including things that are traditionally impure. All that exists becomes integrated, because all that exists for them is God / Absolute. The Western Left Hand Path does not integrate, but rather separates our individual essence from all that exists.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Essentially, the LHP of the East differs from the Western ideal through its connection with something divine. Although the Eastern LHP clearly, if perhaps convoluted, separates one's essence from the Objective Universe / Absolute it however does this in order for the adherent to remain in the company of the Beloved, this is where East and West differ.

Earlier WLHP versions seem to flounder between East and West and it is not until the Temple of Set's usage of the term by Dr. Michael Aquino and found in Dr. Stephen Flowers' "Lords of the Left Hand Path" do we find the most extreme Western Left Hand Path excellently outlined by Priest James Kirby:

"The Left-Hand Path (LHP) involves the conscious attempt to preserve and strengthen one’s isolate, psychecentric existence against the OU (Objective Universe) while creating, apprehending, comprehending, and influencing a varying number of SU's (Subjective Universe)."

"The Right Hand Path (RHP) involves the intentional effort to dissolve or merge the self into the OU."
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Okay, I got home some time ago and fixed my connection.

I can't recall what it was I wanted to include in my first post :s anyways I think if we do a sticky some other source can define it more authoritatively than me.

Conclusion thus far . . .
It would seem that many of us see little if no distinction between the so called "eastern" and "western" Left Hand Path, while others see them as totally different.
Historically the term Left Hand Path falls into one of 5 categories:

  1. Original Left Hand Path, usually Tantric, from religions like Hinduism and Buddhism.
  2. Referring to "black magic" or "bad" or failed" practitioners. Used by people like Blavatsky and Crowley.
  3. To refer to hedonistic/egotistical philosophies with moral relativism (such as LaVeyan Satanism).
  4. Used by western occult groups like the Typhonian Order who used the term in a way pretty close to #1.
  5. In 1992 the book "Lords of the Left Hand Path" was written using a much newer definition of the term making a fifth designation.

The Eastern Left Hand Path follow the idea that all which exists is sacred (Pantheism), including things that are traditionally impure. All that exists becomes integrated, because all that exists for them is God / Absolute. The Western Left Hand Path does not integrate, but rather separates our individual essence from all that exists.

That seems pretty close, kinda tipsy so need time to digest (probably have a better opinion tomorrow), maybe some slight adjustments (like to clarify what point 3 is really about). Some in point 3 self deify but the concept is somewhat different than in number 5. I think in my original post I made a very broad/vague definition of these without saying too much as to the points of difference. The way I stated it doesn't fully entail self deification that doesn't involve separation. Though it can be literal or metaphorical.

Also in the summary I wonder if the definitions should maybe be qualified as something like 'on two extremes' or the like. I don't know that all say luciferians or satanists want to separate from what exists but rather embrace their human nature or a Promethean nature ect. I would agree that the eastern definition is pretty accurate in the respect it's stated; at least as far as the nondual tantric LHP.

Both takes on both sides are so diverse... I think simplifying it though to 5 points would be pretty symbolically cool though as it could be like a pentagram :D

I would perhaps re-iterate number 4 as being a little more explicit in how it's used (wikipedia did this in their description). for example their view of black and white magick and walking right and left paths.

Essentially, the LHP of the East differs from the Western ideal through its connection with something divine. Although the Eastern LHP clearly, if perhaps convoluted, separates one's essence from the Objective Universe / Absolute it however does this in order for the adherent to remain in the company of the Beloved, this is where East and West differ.

I don't know what "remain in the company of the Beloved" means. ??? In Eastern LHP, at least nondual, the distinction is non existent between self and reality/universe. In dual, perhaps it is more like what you say. Some eastern LHP might hold there to be no objective universe (i dont know) but I know that my system and some buddhists systems say that it's objectively real and likewise the creative expression of the unrealized creator that is the tantric. the more realization towards their real nature, the greater their magical powers (although many would say that these powers can be in the meantime distractions from full realization).

Earlier WLHP versions seem to flounder between East and West and it is not until the Temple of Set's usage of the term by Dr. Michael Aquino and found in Dr. Stephen Flowers' "Lords of the Left Hand Path" do we find the most extreme Western Left Hand Path excellently outlined by Priest James Kirby:

"The Left-Hand Path (LHP) involves the conscious attempt to preserve and strengthen one’s isolate, psychecentric existence against the OU (Objective Universe) while creating, apprehending, comprehending, and influencing a varying number of SU's (Subjective Universe)."

"The Right Hand Path (RHP) involves the intentional effort to dissolve or merge the self into the OU."

Yes, this would be the position of take/version 5.

I think that versions 3 and 5 are pretty connected, as well as 1 and 4. Perhaps these are the more "western" and "eastern" usages of the terms respectively and it's more like a spectrum. version 2 basically comes to a misuse/perception by outsiders and is a good contrast to how we view ourselves.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Okay, I got home some time ago and fixed my connection.

I can't recall what it was I wanted to include in my first post :s anyways I think if we do a sticky some other source can define it more authoritatively than me.



That seems pretty close, kinda tipsy so need time to digest (probably have a better opinion tomorrow), maybe some slight adjustments (like to clarify what point 3 is really about). Some in point 3 self deify but the concept is somewhat different than in number 5. I think in my original post I made a very broad/vague definition of these without saying too much as to the points of difference. The way I stated it doesn't fully entail self deification that doesn't involve separation. Though it can be literal or metaphorical.

Also in the summary I wonder if the definitions should maybe be qualified as something like 'on two extremes' or the like. I don't know that all say luciferians or satanists want to separate from what exists but rather embrace their human nature or a Promethean nature ect. I would agree that the eastern definition is pretty accurate in the respect it's stated; at least as far as the nondual tantric LHP.

Both takes on both sides are so diverse... I think simplifying it though to 5 points would be pretty symbolically cool though as it could be like a pentagram :D

I would perhaps re-iterate number 4 as being a little more explicit in how it's used (wikipedia did this in their description). for example their view of black and white magick and walking right and left paths.



I don't know what "remain in the company of the Beloved" means. ??? In Eastern LHP, at least nondual, the distinction is non existent between self and reality/universe. In dual, perhaps it is more like what you say. Some eastern LHP might hold there to be no objective universe (i dont know) but I know that my system and some buddhists systems say that it's objectively real and likewise the creative expression of the unrealized creator that is the tantric. the more realization towards their real nature, the greater their magical powers (although many would say that these powers can be in the meantime distractions from full realization).



Yes, this would be the position of take/version 5.

I think that versions 3 and 5 are pretty connected, as well as 1 and 4. Perhaps these are the more "western" and "eastern" usages of the terms respectively and it's more like a spectrum. version 2 basically comes to a misuse/perception by outsiders and is a good contrast to how we view ourselves.
Ha! I love the Pentagram association! Nice!!
I have to say, the Eastern LHP although sort of complex, is cohesive and very old . . . while the West has tried to embrace the same ideal and make it their own, resulting in several almost completely different usages. Very messy . . .

"company of the Beloved" was a phrase I picked up somewhere, I believe they were referencing the concept of separation from the Absolute (e.g. Brahman) in order to experience it eternally while maintaining one's individualism (or something like that).
Another person I discussed this with pointed out that "where one becomes the god (Shiva), one of the faces of Brahman. It is deifying the "atman", ( self-deification) "
What do you think?
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I know I'm dumping a lot here at once . . .

- from another discussion
"Shiva is separate yet an aspect of Brahman. He is his own god, independent, yet he is a part of the greater whole . . . The LHP is where one becomes the god (Shiva), one of the faces of Brahman. It is deifying the "atman", ( self-deification) which is a heterodox claim in Hinduism."

Wouldn't that be the same as a Christian becoming an aspect of Yahweh?
That would be RHP as well? Admitting there is something divine from which you can become an aspect of, to me, is RHP
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm about to pass out after being up for multiple days so If I stop making sense or make any mistakes I blame that. This post is really long-winded but I think it touches in detail every aspect of what you've brought up and addresses it in a way that will express which eastern Left Hand Paths will fall under your definition of Right Hand Path, which won't, and why.

Or at least the ones I know enough about to comment.

"company of the Beloved" was a phrase I picked up somewhere, I believe they were referencing the concept of separation from the Absolute (e.g. Brahman) in order to experience it eternally while maintaining one's individualism (or something like that).
Another person I discussed this with pointed out that "where one becomes the god (Shiva), one of the faces of Brahman. It is deifying the "atman", ( self-deification) "
What do you think?

I think the first part sounds dualistic but that the second part is mostly accurate for both dualism and nondual eastern LHP. nondual would say you become Shiva himself not just a face. I'll touch on Vajaranya (buddhist) but it views you as simultaneously being an individuated face/god of a giant diamond as well as the entire diamond at the same time (entire diamond being The Buddha too).

The only difference in the first statement would be that the nonduals don't separate as it's seen as always being the same as themselves. Atman is kind of like a higher self in that it's the realized, true self. Some orthodox schools would view it as no individualization such as Samkhya and Vendanta, but Kashmir Shaivism in the Shiva Sutras says that there is individualization in the self deification. This is true for both the Left Hand Path sects of Kashmir Shaivism like Kaula as well as the more "right" hand paths of say Spanda, Actually Kaula is more of a "tamed" Left Hand version of the extreme LHP Kapalika which was pretty violent (or at least reportedly so).

The Kashmir Shaivism sect Krama is much more dualistic (not ultimately but more 'emenationally' and kind of sits on the Left Hand Path from what I understand but not terribly so. It's notable in that it advocated pleasure along the path. (so perhaps some would interpret that as hedonistic)

I can't speak for other Hindu Left Hand paths as I am a Shaivite and I can only address LHP Shaivite sects. I do know some about Vajrayana (Buddhist LHP) because of the mutual influence, but it's in my opinion much more complicated and convoluted with all it's helpful saint-like beings that become gods (like their bodhisattvas and dakinis). I think their view of the infinitely faced/large diamond is comparable to Kashmir Shaivism's view of Shiva on some implicit level because it's possible for there to be multiple self realized Shivas but heck if I know what happens when two individuated yet total-reality encompassing Shivas interact.

How a past teacher explained it to me, their Wills necessarily don't conflict on the highest nondual level, but may on the more "lower" dualistic levels (so emenational again) but even that conflict on the lower levels is a product of the Will of both on the higher levels. I personally view this higher level of will as being equivalent to "opposition" or "Satan" or Kali which are all the same casual feminine force that creates the dualities and opposing wills/physical reality. But they are still totally Satan/Kali/everything too as the totality is Shiva with they are equated with. It's only the highest level that is this oppositional/chaotic primal nondual essence. Indeed, in Kashmir Shaivism the way to realizing the self as Shiva is through the feminine... so identification with Shakti as this primal chaotic essence is paramount towards the individuated self deification.

When that individuated self deification is made in Kashmir Shaivism it recreates the individualization into cosmic awareness that still retains all personality, memories, tastes, and desires of the individual. One realizes they were always Shiva/All and are free to manipulate the universe (now their shakti/creative aspect) on a whim to any desire they wish.

I think for these reasons, the view isn't very different if at all other than it isn't 'anti-cosmic' but I don't think it suggests any kind of "union" or joining.. it's more like "becoming" and to be more crude "dominating" or "overthrowing". But even those fail to describe it on some levels as it's what you were all along, you just don't realize it.

I know I'm dumping a lot here at once . . .

- from another discussion
"Shiva is separate yet an aspect of Brahman. He is his own god, independent, yet he is a part of the greater whole . . . The LHP is where one becomes the god (Shiva), one of the faces of Brahman. It is deifying the "atman", ( self-deification) which is a heterodox claim in Hinduism."

Wouldn't that be the same as a Christian becoming an aspect of Yahweh?
That would be RHP as well? Admitting there is something divine from which you can become an aspect of, to me, is RHP

I think that, for one to say that Shiva is separate yet an aspect of Brahman is a dualistic view if one is defining Shiva as the individual. I'm not terribly educated on dualistic tantric Shaivism. I would agree that in the Left Hand Path that in either case one becomes Shiva. I don't know that if they become just a face; however becoming an individuated face as well as the whole would have a striking resemblance to the buddhist LHP Vajrayana's view of the infinitely faced/large diamond. They deify people all the time to levels of demi-gods and gods. Several of these gods can be called on for help.

And it would be heterodox for the personality to be self deified to the status of godhood from what I understand. Orthodox schools of Hinduism at least view the ego as being destroyed during Moksha. The atman is seen as the god aspect but in Kashmir Shaivism (nondual tantra) even the personality/ego is regenerated and survives as the new cosmic consciousness.

I think the best comparison for your question is more like a Christian saying they become Jesus or Yahweh but still be themselves than simply an aspect, but that it's a possibly for other people to likewise become Jesus or Yahweh but also still be their human selves, likewise in totality. I don't know in either this example or my Hindu ones what happens when more than one realized God interacts. I think that's why the Buddhists developed the idea of the diamond where all can act according to their own will as a distinct face yet the whole at the same time that is transcendent of both a dualistic and monistic definition.

It isn't that you are a "part" of something divine, it's that you are all that is divine. I'm not sure how this works out for dualism but in nondualism you are not a part of it. You are all of it.

The explanations of Kashmir Shaivism and Vajrayana shouldn't be understood in the dualistic and monisitc duality... it's nondual in the regard that it's literally beyond being either or. I would liken it more to emenationalism but each individuated God is just as much the whole set as it is individuated. This is a view that is not normally (if at all?) shared by orthodox dharmic views I think. Normally in the orthodoxy of say Hindusim they view the ego/individualization to cease to be or there is individualization but it is in a form inferior to the deity of choice.

As far as I am aware most schools of orthodox Hinduism do not assert an equal individualization along side the deity (such as dualistic tantra) or as the total individuated equivalent to the deity (in monism). In a third category I am only aware of Kashmir Shaivism (Jaidev says it is the only, actually) as a system that actually fully individualizes the person and preserves them in the nondual (but not totally monistic) equivocation with the deity.

Buddhism however has some different views I do not feel qualified to fully get into.

Anyways, I think for the reasons I stated that the Left Hand Path manifestations of Kashmir Shaivism are closest to what you believe and if I have explained this correctly and I understand you correctly and you understand what I am trying to communicate, then you would agree it's very similar. If I understand correctly the only disagreement is that there is some kind of anti-cosmic identification with the self in your beliefs but that doesn't seem to necessarily dictate that it's not 'western left hand path' under your definition from what I understand.

However I think under your definition the orthodox, Right Hand Path schools as well as some monisitic Left Hand Path schools would be considered "Right Hand Path", with dualistic Left Hand Path schools being a little more of a gray area, and Kashmir Shaivism (being neither dual or non-dual in the ways I have attempted to describe) as being the closest eastern variation of the left hand path to be like what you see as your version of the western left hand path.

As far as Buddhism stuff I touched on I think by your last statement that you might classify it as Right Hand Path, although it could be argued that the individualization of the Bodhisattvas and Dakinis are very close to Left Hand Path in your definition.

I think that the comparison is a little hard to make because the concepts have some important differences in definition between the different philosophies but I have attempted to explain it in an accessible way to the best of my knowledge and understanding. I am by no means an expert; I mostly just know what I believe and practice and have practiced in the past ("western" LHP before "eastern" for example).

If there is anything I was confusing or unclear on I can try to clear it up tomorrow; I've been up for a few days now and need to rest.
 
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EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I'm about to pass out after being up for multiple days so If I stop making sense or make any mistakes I blame that. This post is really long-winded but I think it touches in detail every aspect of what you've brought up and addresses it in a way that will express which eastern Left Hand Paths will fall under your definition of Right Hand Path, which won't, and why.

Or at least the ones I know enough about to comment.



I think the first part sounds dualistic but that the second part is mostly accurate for both dualism and nondual eastern LHP. nondual would say you become Shiva himself not just a face. I'll touch on Vajaranya (buddhist) but it views you as simultaneously being an individuated face/god of a giant diamond as well as the entire diamond at the same time (entire diamond being The Buddha too).

The only difference in the first statement would be that the nonduals don't separate as it's seen as always being the same as themselves. Atman is kind of like a higher self in that it's the realized, true self. Some orthodox schools would view it as no individualization such as Samkhya and Vendanta, but Kashmir Shaivism in the Shiva Sutras says that there is individualization in the self deification. This is true for both the Left Hand Path sects of Kashmir Shaivism like Kaula as well as the more "right" hand paths of say Spanda, Actually Kaula is more of a "tamed" Left Hand version of the extreme LHP Kapalika which was pretty violent (or at least reportedly so).

The Kashmir Shaivism sect Krama is much more dualistic (not ultimately but more 'emenationally' and kind of sits on the Left Hand Path from what I understand but not terribly so. It's notable in that it advocated pleasure along the path. (so perhaps some would interpret that as hedonistic)

I can't speak for other Hindu Left Hand paths as I am a Shaivite and I can only address LHP Shaivite sects. I do know some about Vajrayana (Buddhist LHP) because of the mutual influence, but it's in my opinion much more complicated and convoluted with all it's helpful saint-like beings that become gods (like their bodhisattvas and dakinis). I think their view of the infinitely faced/large diamond is comparable to Kashmir Shaivism's view of Shiva on some implicit level because it's possible for there to be multiple self realized Shivas but heck if I know what happens when two individuated yet total-reality encompassing Shivas interact.

How a past teacher explained it to me, their Wills necessarily don't conflict on the highest nondual level, but may on the more "lower" dualistic levels (so emenational again) but even that conflict on the lower levels is a product of the Will of both on the higher levels. I personally view this higher level of will as being equivalent to "opposition" or "Satan" or Kali which are all the same casual feminine force that creates the dualities and opposing wills/physical reality. But they are still totally Satan/Kali/everything too as the totality is Shiva with they are equated with. It's only the highest level that is this oppositional/chaotic primal nondual essence. Indeed, in Kashmir Shaivism the way to realizing the self as Shiva is through the feminine... so identification with Shakti as this primal chaotic essence is paramount towards the individuated self deification.

When that individuated self deification is made in Kashmir Shaivism it recreates the individualization into cosmic awareness that still retains all personality, memories, tastes, and desires of the individual. One realizes they were always Shiva/All and are free to manipulate the universe (now their shakti/creative aspect) on a whim to any desire they wish.

I think for these reasons, the view isn't very different if at all other than it isn't 'anti-cosmic' but I don't think it suggests any kind of "union" or joining.. it's more like "becoming" and to be more crude "dominating" or "overthrowing". But even those fail on some levels as it's what you were all along, you just don't realize it.



I think that, for one to say that Shiva is separate yet an aspect of Brahman is a dualistic view if one is defining Shiva as the individual. I'm not terribly educated on dualistic tantric Shaivism. I would agree that in the Left Hand Path that in either case one becomes Shiva. I don't know that if they become just a face; however becoming an individuated face as well as the whole would have a striking resemblance to the buddhist LHP Vajrayana's view of the infinitely faced/large diamond. They deify people all the time to levels of demi-gods and gods. Several of these gods can be called on for help.

And it would be heterodox for the personality to be self deified to the status of godhood from what I understand. Orthodox schools of Hinduism at least view the ego as being destroyed during Moksha. The atman is seen as the god aspect but in Kashmir Shaivism (nondual tantra) even the personality/ego is regenerated and survives as the new cosmic consciousness.

I think the best comparison for your question is more like a Christian saying they become Jesus or Yahweh but still be themselves than simply an aspect, but that it's a possibly for other people to likewise become Jesus or Yahweh but also still be their human selves, likewise in totality. I don't know in either this example or my Hindu ones what happens when more than one realized God interacts. I think that's why the Buddhists developed the idea of the diamond where all can act according to their own will as a distinct face yet the whole at the same time that is transcendent of both a dualistic and monistic definition.

It isn't that you are a "part" of something divine, it's that you are all that is divine. I'm not sure how this works out for dualism but in nondualism you are not a part of it. You are all of it.

The explanations of Kashmir Shaivism and Vajrayana shouldn't be understood in the dualistic and monisitc duality... it's nondual in the regard that it's literally beyond being either or. I would liken it more to emenationalism but each individuated God is just as much the whole set as it is individuated. This is a view that is not normally (if at all?) shared by orthodox dharmic views I think. Normally in the orthodoxy of say Hindusim they view the ego/individualization to cease to be or there is individualization but it is in a form inferior to the deity of choice.

As far as I am aware most schools of orthodox Hinduism do not assert an equal individualization along side the deity (such as dualistic tantra) or as the total individuated equivalent to the deity (in monism). In a third category I am only aware of Kashmir Shaivism (Jaidev says it is the only, actually) as a system that actually fully individualizes the person and preserves them in the nondual (but not totally monistic) equivocation with the deity.

Buddhism however has some different views I do not feel qualified to fully get into.

Anyways, I think for the reasons I stated that the Left Hand Path manifestations of Kashmir Shaivism are closest to what you believe and if I have explained this correctly and I understand you correctly and you understand what I am trying to communicate, then you would agree it's very similar. If I understand correctly the only disagreement is that there is some kind of anti-cosmic identification with the self in your beliefs but that doesn't seem to necessarily dictate that it's not 'western left hand path' under your definition from what I understand.

However I think under your definition the orthodox, Right Hand Path schools as well as some monisitic Left Hand Path schools would be considered "Right Hand Path", with dualistic Left Hand Path schools being a little more of a gray area, and Kashmir Shaivism (being neither dual or non-dual in the ways I have attempted to describe) as being the closest eastern variation of the left hand path to be like what you see as your version of the western left hand path.

As far as Buddhism stuff I touched on I think by your last statement that you might classify it as Right Hand Path, although it could be argued that the individualization of the Bodhisattvas and Dakinis are very close to Left Hand Path in your definition.

I think that the comparison is a little hard to make because the concepts have some important differences in definition between the different philosophies but I have attempted to explain it in an accessible way to the best of my knowledge and understanding. I am by no means an expert; I mostly just know what I believe and practice and have practiced in the past ("western" LHP before "eastern" for example).

If there is anything I was confusing or unclear on I can try to clear it up tomorrow; I've been up for a few days now and need to rest.
I fully agree that Kashmir Shaivism is the closest to our Western Left Hand Path. I'm hoping a certain someone will come by and shed some light on LHP Buddhism ideals.

I'm not out of bed yet and will get back into this in a few
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
For now my short answer is -- to me the Left Hand Path is a quest to become an eternal, potent, powerful Essence within the Universe. It is the path of the shining ones who seek to evolve in being, to broaden their intellect, and expand their horizons in life as an isolate intelligent form of sentient existence.

Btw, awesome thread folks, great posts, courteous and intelligent... I have learned a thing or two. Thanks... a breath of fresh air. :smilecat:
 
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ScottySatan

Well-Known Member
I'm not very religious. I listen more than I talk. I've met a lot of Satanists in person and find that we can all get along just fine. Differences in practice seem superficial.

In my experience so far the ones who claim to talk to demons and that they can do extraordinary things through magic don't live a lifestyle that would indicate much truth to that. So far I don't believe them.

Pretty much application of the basics from LaVey are all that I've seen be effective.

Those folks would label me atheistic but I wouldn't label myself anything but Satanist for now.
 
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Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
In Setian philosophy the "Gift of the Black Flame" is the Essence of the Prince of Darkness infused within mankind's very DNA. It is that which initiates and inspires the Will to Come Into Being, it is the energizing force of the Will to Magick, Self-Consciousness, and higher intellect. All understanding of science and mathematics, independent thought, abstract and creative thought such as inventiveness, philosophy, metaphysics, religion; all music and works of art; all expressions of the creative mind and will are manifestations of the Black Gift. It is that which gives us a higher sense of Self just as other animals have a more heightened sense of sight, sound, and smell.
 
As for me, no need to rehash perfectly good hash. From 2011:

A little to the left…


Autodiabolic Method is a left hand path praxis. But what is the left hand path anyway? Seldom has a term been so obfuscated and misused as this one. Many would Say ‘Satanism’, and by proxy those who practice it, and it’s variations are united under this banner of being Left Hand Path, and by this virtue we should ‘ stick together’ or show some sort of group solidarity. Most of these, if asked what the term actually means, will meet you with a blank stare, or worse yet, some obscure bull**** like “It’s a solitary path” or “It means being your own god” or some other arbitrary hubris.

They will, laughably, claim that by virtue of “being ones own god” they can reset the definition of LHP to be whatever it is they care to do. They are their own gods after all! When cornered on effectively defining the LHP into meaninglessness(after all, if a word can mean anything it is effectively useless to describe anything specific), they will generally prattle off some platitude about it being a path of ‘self improvement’, as if THAT narrows it down any. Everyone ‘self improves’, on a regular basis, whether it be through simple exercise or reading
something informative. Are we to believe everyone is LHP by this virtue? Again we are left with a term that is meaningless, other than to be an identity badge for those that need something to be part of, regardless if the shoe actually fits.

So lets examine this. Where does the term even come from? The term, ‘Left Hand Path’ was coined(in the west) in the late 19th century by a Russian mystic named Blavatsky, who began to use it to describe black magical practice in contrast to white magic, which fell under the header of ‘right hand path’. So the story goes, she apprehended this dichotomy during a trip to the far east, while in contact with some traditional Hindu tantrics.

You see, in traditional tantric practice, which is a specific set of esoteric practices falling under the banner of Hinduism, there are two overarching schools of thought; Vamachara and Dakshinachara. Dakshinachara consists of acceptable Hindu practices such as meditation and asceticism, while Vamachara also includes many things seen as ‘ taboo’ in that culture, such as animal sacrifice,drinking alcohol, sexual practice, and eating meat. In fact, the central practice of Vamachara, the ritual of the 5 Ms, consists of taboo breaking as a method of ‘opening the
mind.’ The practitioners of this tradition, known as nastia(which one etymological hypothesis places as the root word of ‘nasty’) would be known to smear themselves with grave ash, or build stools from 5 skulls, one generally being human, to overcome their fear of the dead and death itself. The practice of Dakshinachara is orthodox, or in line with the status quo, while the practice of Vamachara is heterodox in the context of traditional vedic religion and extreme in comparison, thus heavily frowned upon.

But why left? Vamachara is actually a sanskrit word, and it means ‘ the left course’, or ‘the left
path’ and can be translated thus:
वामतः
vAmataH = to the left

चार:
cAra = course

The origin is simple. If you stand facing east, where the sun rises, the south is to your right. ‘Dakshina’ translates to ‘south’, and thus can be translated as right hand practice. Thus vamachara, or ‘left hand practice’ to describe what is blasphemous, what is heterodox, the path of taboo. Some would argue the name came about as a result of the rural Hindu tradition, lacking toilet paper, of eating with ones right hand and wiping with ones left. In this pejorative sense, it means ‘the path of ****’. Long has this way been feared and demonized, long have its practitioners been ostracized, for daring to cross traditional borders. Sound familiar?

Now, back to Blavatsky. The left was already (all spiritual paths lead back to India, probably causally related) associated with many things that were viewed in a less than flattering light in the west;Homosexuals were known as ‘ left handed’, Catholics were known as ‘ left footers’ in
many protestant circles, and of course there is a passage in the bible taken to mean the people of god were to the right, his enemies to the left:

And he shall separate them from one another,

As a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.

And he shall set the sheep on his right,

But the goats on his left.

-mathew 25: 32-33

So, when the term was introduced to mean “evil” or “black” magical practices, it was well accepted, and quickly associated with the devil, which was and is the ultimate symbol of antinomianism and heterodox tradition in the west. Fast forward 60 some years to the writing of LaVeys bible, where he correctly identifies what he is doing, as per describing a tradition that was both heterodox and antinomian as ‘Left Hand Path’, but offers, unfortunately, very little context as to why. I suppose he thought maybe people should do their own research, or maybe
it was just a commonplace fact within the circles he traveled, or maybe he used it because Blavatsky used it. Either way, he brought the term even more into the light, while oddly enough opening the door for future misapprehension, to the scale we have now where it is widely used but seldom understood.

The root of the mess, as it occurs to me, is that LaVey used a certain metaphor for autonomy that was taken out of context by many. ‘Being ones own god’ when contrasted with a worldview where one god rules everything, controls everything, sees everything, makes sense, but it was never meant to mean literally, or even figuratively, become a deity. Autonomy is important to the left hand path by way of contrast to submission to the status quo, the walk in
opposition to the beaten path requires a certain separation from it. To psychologically assume the role of deity, in the context provided, is in and of itself a statement of allegiance to the heterodox way.

Of course, many ran with this definition, the accepted definition of god being one who creates all, or sets the rules, and an equivocation of the term ‘ left hand path’ to the idea of setting your own rules became commonplace to those that did not understand the context in which it was used. With the inception of the internet, the idea of LHP meaning ‘do what you want’ spawned an entire generation of those that classified themselves as LHP yet in actuality lived and live quite orthodox existences, different in their own minds from those that played nice and followed all the rules, but quite indistinguishable in actual praxis.

What we are left with are gaggles of so called ‘Satanists’ espousing a philosophy that is far, far from anything resembling left hand path practice, yet claiming, often quite loudly, that since they are in fact their own gods nobody has the right to tell them what the term actually means! Some would even go so far as to describe themselves as egalitarian(the very essence of submission to a collective) while still claiming to be walking the left hand path. This is nothing less than stupidity based in a sort of willful ignorance and sense of entitlement that has become the hallmark of western society itself.

ADM is a willful manifestation as adversary, to ones own sacred cows as well as those presented, a sinister vector(sinister by way of contrast, of course, to the status quo) of Satanism that is a return to true antinomian and heterodox tradition,apprehending the world by way of opposition and hard scrutiny, to shattering predispositions by way of shattering taboos, breaking accepted traditions, and pushing beyond the limits as presented. This is the essence, in the context of modern western society, of the ‘Left Hand Path’
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
The OP said we could ramble, so this is me rambling. Something I posted in another thread;

"Sometimes I tire of the terms "Left-Hand Path" and "Right-Hand Path". I am just venturing and exploring my own path of life. I work and I play, I love, I study and practice certain forms of philosophy and Magick, but my greatest passion is for my music, composing and developing my technique on the guitar and piano keyboard. I always strive to do the best I can in everything I do."

I felt the pull to the Path of the Left at a very early age beginning with Satanism. I didn't become a Satanist to belong or to fit in, or to get the girls. If anything being openly Satanic as a teenager made me less popular and more often than not scared away the girls. Initially for me it was being drawn to the music, the dark imagery and aesthetics, the deeper study of the philosophy and magickal practice came later (which eventually led me to the Temple of Set.) For some reason I identified and sympathized with the "Devil" and found Satanism to be a "natural" part of who I was as an individual being. It sometimes makes me wonder if some of us are born to the Path of Darkness.
 
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Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
The OP said we could ramble, so this is me rambling. Something I posted in another thread;

"Sometimes I tire of the terms "Left-Hand Path" and "Right-Hand Path". I am just venturing and exploring my own path of life. I work and I play, I love, I study and practice certain forms of philosophy and Magick, but my greatest passion is for my music, composing and developing my technique on the guitar and piano keyboard. I always strive to do the best I can in everything I do."

I felt the pull to the Path of the Left at a very early age beginning with Satanism. I didn't become a Satanist to belong or to fit in, or to get the girls. If anything being openly Satanic as a teenager made me less popular and more often than not scared away the girls. Initially for me its was being drawn to the music, the dark imagery and aesthetics, the deeper study of the philosophy and magickal practice came later (which eventually led me to the Temple of Set.) For some reason I identified and sympathized with the "Devil" and found Satanism to be a "natural" part of who I was as an individual being. It sometimes makes me wonder if some of us are born to the Path of Darkness.


I myself am also deeply into music, your story is actually nearly similar to my experience also. The music too, mainly got me interested into the darker aspects of life with the imagery and the aesthetics. I was attracted to the occult and that of satanism at a very younger age also. Except I did not necessarily converted to satanism I was born to be a satanist.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
your story is actually nearly similar to my experience also. Except I did not necessarily converted to satanism I was born to be a satanist.

Hey Sutekh, your the second person on RF that has told me my story is similar to their own experience. For me it wasn't a matter of converting to Satanism but rather finally recognizing and fully embracing That which I Am. Which I think is a common theme amongst many Left Hand Pathers. :smilecat:

Gnothi Seauton!
 
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