What was Jewish about Jesus?

[whirlingmerc]

What makes you think I don't celebrate Passover???? I observe all the Jewish holy days. I just finished Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. Sukkot starts this Sunday evening. I'm an observant Jew.

And what makes you think I don't believe Jesus was not a Jew??? Of course Jesus was a Jew. He was born of a Jewish mom, which made him a Jew. He was raised Jewish. All in all, he was an observant Jew in every way. I have argued this against Christians who have maintained that he wasn't Jewish. (It's the remarks about being the Son of God that are problematic.)

I think you need to go back and read again the post I replied to, because obviously you didn't understand my response.

It is Jayhawker who doesn't celebrate Passover. So you are more like Jesus in being an observant Jew in that respect.

And yet Jesus himself is the ultimate 'year of jubilee' as celebrated in Isaiah 61, Psalm 107, 146 and 147 as well as the Passover sacrifice for the world. The spirit given to believers on Sevuot.

Not sure why nowhere man would think Jesus didn't know many jewish customs as his uncle was chosen to go into the holy place on Yon Kippur but got a message from an angel and struck unable to speak until fulfilled (like Jeremiah was... sounds Jewish to me).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

And yet Jesus himself is the ultimate 'year of jubilee' as celebrated in Isaiah 61, Psalm 107, 146 and 147 as well as the Passover sacrifice for the world. The spirit given to believers on Sevuot.

A person is not a time.

I looked up these scriptures, and saw no reference to any year of Jubilee or Passover or Shavuot.

 

[pearl]

As a Catholic, were you aware of this statement from the Vatican's COMMISSION FOR RELIGIOUS RELATIONS WITH THE JEWS?

Yes. One of the more in depth documents, from the PBC (Pontifical Biblical Commission), a group of Catholic biblical scholars appointed by the pope and seated within the CDF ( Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) is 'The Jewish People and Their Sacred Scriptures in the Christin Bible'
In its work, the Biblical Commission could not ignore the contemporary context, where the shock of the Shoah has put the whole question under a new light. Two main problems are posed: Can Christians, after all that has happened, still claim in good conscience to be the legitimate heirs of Israel's Bible? Have they the right to propose a Christian interpretation of this Bible, or should they not instead, respectfully and humbly, renounce any claim that, in the light of what has happened, must look like a usurpation? The second question follows from the first: In its presentation of the Jews and the Jewish people, has not the New Testament itself contributed to creating a hostility towards the Jewish people that provided a support for the ideology of those who wished to destroy Israel? "
The Jewish People and their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible

 

[pearl]

But my point is that not all the religious leaders, even by Christian accounts, were in favor of Jesus' death. For example, you had Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea who were followers of Jesus according to gospel accounts.

Very true. But it cannot be denied that a close relationship existed between Pilate and the 'high' priest whom Pilate appointed. The Church has, post Vatican II, produced a number of official documents to your point, 'not all religious leaders....'

 

[whirlingmerc]

A person is not a time.

I looked up these scriptures, and saw no reference to any year of Jubilee or Passover or Shavuot.

Opening blind eyes, setting captives free, healing the broken hearted and the like are ver Isiah 61ish

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes. One of the more in depth documents, from the PBC (Pontifical Biblical Commission), a group of Catholic biblical scholars appointed by the pope and seated within the CDF ( Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) is 'The Jewish People and Their Sacred Scriptures in the Christin Bible'
In its work, the Biblical Commission could not ignore the contemporary context, where the shock of the Shoah has put the whole question under a new light. Two main problems are posed: Can Christians, after all that has happened, still claim in good conscience to be the legitimate heirs of Israel's Bible? Have they the right to propose a Christian interpretation of this Bible, or should they not instead, respectfully and humbly, renounce any claim that, in the light of what has happened, must look like a usurpation? The second question follows from the first: In its presentation of the Jews and the Jewish people, has not the New Testament itself contributed to creating a hostility towards the Jewish people that provided a support for the ideology of those who wished to destroy Israel? "
The Jewish People and their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible

First of all, let me say that the Catholic church has done a great about face in its treatment and understanding of the People of Israel. I for one am so relieved. Between Nostra Aetate and Pope St. John Paul II's great apology in 2000, we have now established meaningful dialoge -- it's a whole new era.

But the answer to the two questions above are dangerously no and yes. The Jewish sacred texts have been usurped and misinterpreted, and yes, the Christian scriptures present the Jewish people in a light that cause us to be treated in a hostile manner, even resulting in the holocaust. That is harsh, I know. But unless we face the truth, we can never completely overcome the past.

Which is why I and many Jews believe that this new found peace between Jews and Catholics could disappear at any time. The foundation is still rot.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Very true. But it cannot be denied that a close relationship existed between Pilate and the 'high' priest whom Pilate appointed. The Church has, post Vatican II, produced a number of official documents to your point, 'not all religious leaders....'

Caiphus was so corrupt, that he gained notoriety even in the Talmud. Everyone hates Caiphus. But you cannot brand all the Jewish religious leaders based on Caiphus.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Opening blind eyes, setting captives free, healing the broken hearted and the like are ver Isiah 61ish

These things do not imply a year of Jubilee. They are simply a wonderful time, either of the messianic era, or the world to come.

 

[pearl]

The Jewish sacred texts have been usurped and misinterpreted, and yes, the Christian scriptures present the Jewish people in a light that cause us to be treated in a hostile manner, even resulting in the holocaust. That is harsh, I know. But unless we face the truth, we can never completely overcome the past.

A fundamentalist interpretation of Christian Scriptures may or may not have caused the Holocaust, but it certainly 'allowed' it. The Church interprets with a 'critical' approach.

Which is why I and many Jews believe that this new found peace between Jews and Catholics could disappear at any time. The foundation is still rot.

The Church is more apt to move forward not backward. I cannot answer your post unless you explain what i 'rot'.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Church is more apt to move forward not backward. I cannot answer your post unless you explain what i 'rot'.

I hope you are correct. Yet I see that there is the appearence of anti-Semites in the the churches, and the churches do not deal with the issue in sermons or adult education. "It's not a salvation issue," they say. The shooter at the Poway Synagogue near me faithfully attended a local Presbyterian church, and embraced its doctrines correctly according to its pastor. That's scary don't you think? I've spoken to traditional Catholics who simply don't embrace Vatican 2, and are anti-Semitic, believing that all Jews are to blame for the death of Jesus and are cursed. What if this side of the Catholic church came back into power?

 

[pearl]

I hope you are correct. Yet I see that there is the appearence of anti-Semites in the the churches, and the churches do not deal with the issue in sermons or adult education.Quote}

Actually the Church has dealt with at length through both sermons, especially during lent, and also adult ed extensively as it notes the progression of anti-Semitism in the Gospels, from the few in connection with the crucifixion to all, with the situation of the churches. Remember these were all Jews who believed in the Messiah, Christianity was a cult within Judaism. Until the situation of the community of John's gospel and a pronounced progression from a 'few' to 'all' Jews. Again reflecting the situation of the church now expelled from the synagogue leaving the now clearly defined 'Christians' open to Roman persecution.

That's scary don't you think? I've spoken to traditional Catholics who simply don't embrace Vatican 2

Sometimes it may seem one step forward and two steps backwards. With Cardinal Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) it seemed a step backwards. Benedict was/is a traditionalist, especially for Latin. But I think there are greater words of hope from Francis and also from Jewish leaders;
"Jews and Christians—our situations are somewhat different; our roles and tasks are somewhat different; our styles and modes are somewhat different. But we are covenanted to and by the same God of Israel; our essential teachings are markedly similar; our goals, identical. And the one whose second coming Christians await and whose (first) coming we Jews await—when he comes—will surely turn out to have the same face for all of us."
The late Rabbi Hershel Jonah Matt, written more than three decades ago (see Daniel Matt, Walking Humbly With God: The Life and Writings of Rabbi Hershel Jonah Matt):