What was the intent of the Gospel authors when writing of the resurrection of Christ?

[CG Didymus]

Hi Adrian,

Thank you very much for mentioning the body of Christ which is very profound as Bahá’ís we believe that it was the body of Christ’s Cause which was resurrected not His physical body and these verses throw such a very bright light on this idea.


1 Corinthians 12:27
Verse Concepts
Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

Romans 12:4-5
For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

Source: 22 Bible verses about Body Of Christ, The Church

One more time... This is a continuation of the crucifixion story and burial of Jesus. It is not a parable. It is not talking about the believers being the "body of Christ". To fit Baha'i beliefs is the only reason I can see why Baha'is need it to be an allegory. Which still makes the story fictional. So the gospel writers kind of told the truth about the crucifixion but when it came to the burial of Jesus they went into a fictional story?

So if the "body of Christ" is the believers, then the female "body of Christ" went to the tomb to do what? Put spices on the dead real body of Christ. Which if he hadn't physically risen from the dead, the body should have been there, but it wasn't there. So they went back and told the rest of the "body of Christ" that the tomb was empty and that some men told them that Jesus had risen? I don't know? How do Baha'is make sense of it? Some people believe it is nothing but a made up lie, while Baha'is believe that it is a very special and meaningful allegorical story? Well, here it is. Can you make a case for this being allegorical parable and not just a bunch of made up lies?

Luke 24 On the first day of the week... the women went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but... did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.

9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense. 12 Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened...

36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
​

 

[loverofhumanity]

One more time... This is a continuation of the crucifixion story and burial of Jesus. It is not a parable. It is not taking about the believers being the "body of Christ". To fit Baha'i beliefs is the only reason I can see why Baha'is need it to be an allegory. Which still makes the story fictional. So the gospel writers kind of told the truth about the crucifixion but when it came to the burial of Jesus they went into a fictional story?

So if the "body of Christ" is the believers, then the female "body of Christ" went to the tomb to do what? Put spices on the dead real body of Christ. Which if he hadn't physically risen from the dead, the body should have been there, but it wasn't there. So they went back and told the rest of the "body of Christ" that the tomb was empty and that some men told them that Jesus had risen? I don't know? How do Baha'is make sense of it? Some people believe it is nothing but a made up lie, while Baha'is believe that it is a very special and meaningful allegorical story? Well, here it is. Can you make a case for this being allegorical parable and not just a bunch of made up lies?

Luke 24 On the first day of the week... the women went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but... did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.

9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense. 12 Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened...

36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
​

I personally don’t see any reason why this could not have been a vision or dream like with the transfiguration on Mount Tabor.


Thou didst ask as to the transfiguration of Jesus, with Moses and Elias and the Heavenly Father on Mount Tabor, as referred to in the Bible. This occurrence was perceived by the disciples with their inner eye, wherefore it was a secret hidden away, and was a spiritual discovery of theirs. Otherwise, if the intent be that they witnessed physical forms, that is, witnessed that transfiguration with their outward eyes, then there were many others at hand on that plain and mountain, and why did they fail to behold it? And why did the Lord charge them that they should tell no man? It is clear that this was a spiritual vision and a scene of the Kingdom. Wherefore did the Messiah bid them to keep this hidden, ‘till the Son of Man were risen from the dead,’ 1 —that is, until the Cause of God should be exalted, and the Word of God prevail, and the reality of Christ rise up.
1. Matthew 17:1–19; Mark 9:2–9; Luke 9:28–36.

 

[rational experiences]

Laws in creation natural.

Law of one O planet God stone angel that protects life.

The seal of stone a description.

Science states laws of separation.

God history in space holy mother reason. Womb owned all laws.

Separation. Cold gas. Present in heavens. Natural by its body mass. Many bodies of spirit cold gases separation as separated existing law natural.

CH that arose is not instant. It was instant once only to be immaculate. To be spirit bodies. To be spirit bodies owning mass presence.

Mass therefore owns separated spirits to be a mass and a present mass.

Natural.

Science says I will copy.

Law separation exists.

They apply to separate mass to get separation a particular gas. The gas belongs in mass and with mass.

Mass is not separated...let no man put usunder what God had created.

God owned presence of its spirit gases as CH Rist.

CH as values in science is written as designed patterns. Thought about. Thinking is not natural law. Want motivation.

As thought by a living conscious human.

Law statement in memory taught.....

In a vacuum that removed the history burning no pattern exists. Law cooling to be cooled is constant.

Change cooling the observation said Christ spirit disappeared. Yet it did not. If it did disappear as a body of spirit a gas no life would even exist.

Science status is to impose false reasoning as he says his meaning only owned by man theist disappeared.

To reason I got life irradiated sacrificed.

But it never did. Irradiation affect what was never CH Rist the observation said extra radiation interfered.

Explanation a whole story told all reasons.

The result to reason reasons said never give God a name ever again.

So obviously science today using old names think they are not disobeying that instruction. As the inanity of coercive word explanations.

If a situation is instant. Yet multi instant changes said CH gases never went anywhere then a long explanation thesis is used to teach why. Yet instant effect the answer. Never changed rationally.

If you just said instant results do not argue. Since when did a scientist not argue?

Even after you were told why you still argue.

Human egotism a healer appraisal then said work on your own self gained spirituality.

Virtually why don't you just stop arguing you must science self.

 

[Dawnofhope]

One more time... This is a continuation of the crucifixion story and burial of Jesus. It is not a parable. It is not taking about the believers being the "body of Christ". To fit Baha'i beliefs is the only reason I can see why Baha'is need it to be an allegory. Which still makes the story fictional. So the gospel writers kind of told the truth about the crucifixion but when it came to the burial of Jesus they went into a fictional story?

So if the "body of Christ" is the believers, then the female "body of Christ" went to the tomb to do what? Put spices on the dead real body of Christ. Which if he hadn't physically risen from the dead, the body should have been there, but it wasn't there. So they went back and told the rest of the "body of Christ" that the tomb was empty and that some men told them that Jesus had risen? I don't know? How do Baha'is make sense of it? Some people believe it is nothing but a made up lie, while Baha'is believe that it is a very special and meaningful allegorical story? Well, here it is. Can you make a case for this being allegorical parable and not just a bunch of made up lies?

Luke 24 On the first day of the week... the women went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but... did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ” 8 Then they remembered his words.

9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense. 12 Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened...

36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
​

So who was the author of the Gospel of Luke, when was it written and for what purpose?

According to Wikipedia:

Most modern scholars agree that the main sources used for Luke were the Gospel of Mark, a hypothetical sayings collection called the Q source, and material found in no other gospels, often referred to as the L (for Luke) source.

The author is anonymous;[6] the traditional view that it was Luke the Evangelist, the companion of Paul, is still occasionally put forward, but the scholarly consensus emphasises the many contradictions between Acts and the authentic Pauline letters.

The most probable date for its composition is around AD 80–110, and there is evidence that it was still being revised well into the 2nd century.

Gospel of Luke - Wikipedia

So the Author is anonymous, main sources are from the Gospel of Mark and Q, and it was written between 80-110 AD. The Gospel of Mark doesn’t mention the resurrection in its original form. The resurrection narrative in Mark was added much later.

Mark 16 is the final chapter of the Gospel of Mark in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. It begins with the discovery of the empty tomb by Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome. There they encounter a young man dressed in white who announces the resurrection of Jesus(16:1-6). The two oldest manuscripts of Mark 16 (from the 300s) then conclude with verse 8, which ends with the women fleeing from the empty tomb, and saying "nothing to anyone, because they were too frightened".[note 1]

Mark 16 - Wikipedia

So the earliest Gospel of Mark in its earliest versions make no mention of the resurrection apart from alluding to it through mention of the empty tomb. The empty tomb is one of the few common parts of the four Gospel accounts. Later Gospel accounts such as Matthew and Luke clearly build on Mark.

So where did the story of the resurrection come from? No one knows for certain but Paul’s letter to Corinthians is the very first NT book to mention the resurrection. It appears to have been written about 10 - 20 years before the first Gospel (Mark) and 20 - 60 years before Luke was written.

We need to deal with facts as much as possible. The facts simply don’t support an historical physical resurrection regardless of whether the Gospel accounts ‘sound’ historical.

 

[CG Didymus]

I personally don’t see any reason why this could not have been a vision or dream like with the transfiguration on Mount Tabor.

Well, the way it is explained isn't the same as the transfiguration. Like how do they have a vision of an empty tomb? They saw Jesus, touched him and ate with them. But, because the story wasn't written down until way later, and each version in the gospels is slightly different, then was it just based on legends and traditions? And who, other than Christians, were reading these gospels? Did the Jews and Romans even know or care? Like today, do we know what the Scientologists are saying? Or like a religion that says their dead leader has reincarnated? Do we go out of are way to prove them wrong? No, we just ignore them.

So you personally see it as a vision. Other Baha'is, including Abdul Baha, say the story was allegorical. I personally think, if it is not true, then it's just plain old made up stories. And part of the story is that there were visions of angels. But when it says, "touch me and see that I am flesh and bone and not a ghost", that shows that the writer was trying to make it clear it was not a vision. But we have a Bible filled with impossible stories... Like the seas parting and a walking stick turning into a snake. For me to think those were just visions doesn't make sense. To believe they really happened, doesn't make sense. But to believe they were just embellishments put into the story to show how great and powerful God is, that, to me, is the easiest to believe. And even whether or not the story is totally made up or that it was based on a real event doesn't matter that much. The point of the story was always to show something about God. So in that way, I kind of agree with the stories having some important spiritual meaning. But I'm not taking the story and changing things to be symbolic of something else. Like water being the "water of life". I think water was water and Jesus was walking on it to show how he do things above and beyond what a normal human could do. That he indeed, must be the Son of God.

Thou didst ask as to the transfiguration of Jesus, with Moses and Elias and the Heavenly Father on Mount Tabor, as referred to in the Bible. This occurrence was perceived by the disciples with their inner eye, wherefore it was a secret hidden away, and was a spiritual discovery of theirs. Otherwise, if the intent be that they witnessed physical forms, that is, witnessed that transfiguration with their outward eyes, then there were many others at hand on that plain and mountain, and why did they fail to behold it? And why did the Lord charge them that they should tell no man? It is clear that this was a spiritual vision and a scene of the Kingdom. Wherefore did the Messiah bid them to keep this hidden, ‘till the Son of Man were risen from the dead,’ 1 —that is, until the Cause of God should be exalted, and the Word of God prevail, and the reality of Christ rise up.
1. Matthew 17:1–19; Mark 9:2–9; Luke 9:28–36.

Here's the quote from Matthew... "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart". There was only the three with Jesus. There were no others with them. So again, were any of the gospel writers witnesses of this? No. So where did they get this story? All those many years later when the gospels are written, who's going to question it? And it doesn't sound like Baha'is are questioning it. They are agreeing that this event did happen, but is was a vision. So then, was the resurrection appearances visions or was the whole resurrection story a parable and never really happened?

 

[CG Didymus]

So who was the author of the Gospel of Luke, when was it written and for what purpose?

According to Wikipedia:

Most modern scholars agree that the main sources used for Luke were the Gospel of Mark, a hypothetical sayings collection called the Q source, and material found in no other gospels, often referred to as the L (for Luke) source.

The author is anonymous;[6] the traditional view that it was Luke the Evangelist, the companion of Paul, is still occasionally put forward, but the scholarly consensus emphasises the many contradictions between Acts and the authentic Pauline letters.

The most probable date for its composition is around AD 80–110, and there is evidence that it was still being revised well into the 2nd century.

Gospel of Luke - Wikipedia

So the Author is anonymous, main sources are from the Gospel of Mark and Q, and it was written between 80-110 AD. The Gospel of Mark doesn’t mention the resurrection in its original form. The resurrection narrative in Mark was added much later.

Mark 16 is the final chapter of the Gospel of Mark in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. It begins with the discovery of the empty tomb by Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome. There they encounter a young man dressed in white who announces the resurrection of Jesus(16:1-6). The two oldest manuscripts of Mark 16 (from the 300s) then conclude with verse 8, which ends with the women fleeing from the empty tomb, and saying "nothing to anyone, because they were too frightened".[note 1]

Mark 16 - Wikipedia

So the earliest Gospel of Mark in its earliest versions make no mention of the resurrection apart from alluding to it through mention of the empty tomb. The empty tomb is one of the few common parts of the four Gospel accounts. Later Gospel accounts such as Matthew and Luke clearly build on Mark.

So where did the story of the resurrection come from? No one knows for certain but Paul’s letter to Corinthians is the very first NT book to mention the resurrection. It appears to have been written about 10 - 20 years before the first Gospel (Mark) and 20 - 60 years before Luke was written.

We need to deal with facts as much as possible. The facts simply don’t support an historical physical resurrection regardless of whether the Gospel accounts ‘sound’ historical.

Yes, exactly. So the writers came up with a parable? Or, did they make up a story about an empty tomb and Jesus appearing to the disciples? I'm just saying, to me, if it's not true, that I don't believe it was an allegorical story where Christ's body is really the "body" of believers. If it is not true, then I think the writers based their stories on the legends and traditions and if those were good enough and not miraculous enough, added in some embellishments of their own. I don't see the followers being able to get away with stealing the body of Jesus and not getting caught in the lie that Jesus had rose from the dead. But I feel sorry for all the people that were deceived into believing Jesus had risen from the dead, and was coming back soon, and were tortured to death for their beliefs.

So can you show me where in the gospel of Luke you believe it goes from telling about the events that happened during the crucifixion to a parable about an empty tomb and a resurrected Jesus? I think that if it was told as being real, historical events, that, in those days and even today, believers are going to take as being actual historical events. For those of us that don't believe, then of course, nothing about the story sounds real.

But I still ask... why doubt that God can bring dead cells back to life but believe that God can and did make a human baby without the DNA from a human male? It sure seems to me that all the stories are doing nothing more than trying to show how anything is possible for God. And this human he created, Jesus, was something special... almost God-like. I think from beginning to end, the stories went out of their way to make Jesus God in the flesh. If the stories are true... if they are only allegorical, then maybe this Jesus wasn't so special.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Well, the way it is explained isn't the same as the transfiguration. Like how do they have a vision of an empty tomb? They saw Jesus, touched him and ate with them. But, because the story wasn't written down until way later, and each version in the gospels is slightly different, then was it just based on legends and traditions? And who, other than Christians, were reading these gospels? Did the Jews and Romans even know or care? Like today, do we know what the Scientologists are saying? Or like a religion that says their dead leader has reincarnated? Do we go out of are way to prove them wrong? No, we just ignore them.

So you personally see it as a vision. Other Baha'is, including Abdul Baha, say the story was allegorical. I personally think, if it is not true, then it's just plain old made up stories. And part of the story is that there were visions of angels. But when it says, "touch me and see that I am flesh and bone and not a ghost", that shows that the writer was trying to make it clear it was not a vision. But we have a Bible filled with impossible stories... Like the seas parting and a walking stick turning into a snake. For me to think those were just visions doesn't make sense. To believe they really happened, doesn't make sense. But to believe they were just embellishments put into the story to show how great and powerful God is, that, to me, is the easiest to believe. And even whether or not the story is totally made up or that it was based on a real event doesn't matter that much. The point of the story was always to show something about God. So in that way, I kind of agree with the stories having some important spiritual meaning. But I'm not taking the story and changing things to be symbolic of something else. Like water being the "water of life". I think water was water and Jesus was walking on it to show how he do things above and beyond what a normal human could do. That he indeed, must be the Son of God.

Here's the quote from Matthew... "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart". There was only the three with Jesus. There were no others with them. So again, were any of the gospel writers witnesses of this? No. So where did they get this story? All those many years later when the gospels are written, who's going to question it? And it doesn't sound like Baha'is are questioning it. They are agreeing that this event did happen, but is was a vision. So then, was the resurrection appearances visions or was the whole resurrection story a parable and never really happened?

That’s right CG. The Bible is always trying to teach us something about God. That God is All Powerful and All Knowing and that He is the Sovereign of earth and heaven. Passages like this reveal these things but like with the story of Adam and Eve and the parting of the Red Sea, there is no historical record of these events. Abdul-Baha also states that they were symbolical not physical events like Noah’s flood. The Bible is essentially a spiritual Book and we live in a materialistic world so try to understand it through materialistic eyes.

 

[Deeje]

One more time... This is a continuation of the crucifixion story and burial of Jesus. It is not a parable. It is not talking about the believers being the "body of Christ". To fit Baha'i beliefs is the only reason I can see why Baha'is need it to be an allegory. Which still makes the story fictional. So the gospel writers kind of told the truth about the crucifixion but when it came to the burial of Jesus they went into a fictional story?

Exactly. The whole purpose of Jesus becoming a human in the first place was to give his life in exchange (or as a ransom) for the one Adam lost for his children. (God's law is fulfilled in "a life for a life") Genesis explains the whole basis for the sacrifice of Jesus' life....the need for a Savior to rescue us from the sin and death to which we are all enslaved, with no way to bail ourselves out. It required a sinless life for a sinless life, but no human was sinless, so a life had to be produced from outside of Adam's faulty DNA.
Jesus was conceived as a human through the operation of God's holy spirit....not by natural means. This is why his mother had to be a virgin, because no physical intercourse was involved.

Adam created the debt.....the only cause of death in Eden was disobedience (breaking the only law that God gave to the first humans) We all know that death is foreign to us because the Bible explains that it was never supposed to happen. We are not created to accept death for ourselves or our loved ones.

"The tree of life" in the garden was a guarantee of everlasting life in mortal flesh. There was only one prohibited tree that God claimed as his own property. They had free access to the tree of life in the garden.

But after the pair had disobeyed that direct command and stole something to which they had no right, everything changed from that day on. They lost their paradise home and along with that, they lost access to the "tree of life".....so death would now overtake them...but not right away. It was a slow and gradual process and in the meantime God allowed them to fulfill his mandate to "fill the earth" with their children, (in spite of their inherent imperfections).....but what they could not do was to "subdue it" because sin would now work against that. Humans, instead of making the earth beautiful, have fouled it up due to their incredibly selfish interests. That was to be addressed in the future. God would bring those 'destroying the earth' to account.(Revelation 11:18)

So if the whole story is allegory then the whole theme of the Bible is destroyed. If Jesus wasn't resurrected then he could not return to God in heaven and resume his former place at God's right hand. (He was always the Logos or God's spokesman).

When he gave his final command to his disciples to preach about God's Kingdom and make disciples, Jesus said that he would be "with" them right up until the end of the present world system. (Matthew 28:19-20) He is directing everything from heaven, and he chose the first of those who will rule with him in his kingdom, and also many more from that time on. That does not allow for anyone else to come in the meantime and masquerade as the returned Christ, who was never going to return in human form. (John 14:19)

When Jesus brings this world to an accounting....everyone will know about it. The problems of this world will end with the one who caused it all in the first place. Revelation tells us all about his final destination and it will include all whom he has managed to convince of his deceptions. Peace and security will never be achieved through human means....but it doesn't mean that they won't try.....failure is assured.

 

[rational experiences]

Psychic memory human heavenly living lived life records owns the experience of us all.

After ice age the human son baby adult re invented thesis pyramid temple science that had destroyed life on earth. Evidence machine parts and human artefacts inside coal and deep earth fusion.

Stating that volcanic mass had to have enveloped the articles then instant snap freeze cooled it.

For the articles to remain intact.

Theist quotes beginnings when thinking. Where did heaven spirit come from. For science.

It was released from volcanic ejection. Where God heavens came from. Earth mass.

Reason why God tomb owning holy God spirit Sion or fusion was stone. The body flesh of God.

Origin sin in science a place where mass in space self consumed it's form.

Not a time scale as it is just reasoning about what natural mass was involved via its formation.

Straight away the theist in origin thought scene of the science crime said eating of the flesh of the spirit is evil sin.

As to think like they did you have to pretend like they did first. Science pretence claiming knowing when status says informed.

Spirit heavens he quotes spirits from God ejection. Like sex.

As God is mass science only relates its origins to mass as gas forms. And not our heavens.

Thesis was the volcano as reason artefacts were snap held in fusion. Theory beginnings for an atmospheric gas string to evolution.

Basic advice.

If the flesh of the spirit God was eaten the theist referring to notified data would quote body of gods spirits disappeared. As man the scientist invested in his own sin .....converting Sion.

Sin x K as K in old symbols of science was constant.

Why they stopped using K to define constant and gave it value C.

C was given 100 as average human life span. Science said I claim life owns the constant of light not science by value of C. Never give God a name ever again. No man is God the teaching.

Reason.......gases are from earth a radiating creator. Water and oxygen two balanced bodies of our bio regeneration already existed as gods spirits. Meaning holy X two balances only. Like burning gas the sacrifice of immaculate gas not burning. Balanced.

We live as humans within gods spirits protection. Balanced by two man and woman.

A sink hole tomb emptied was the thesis why the spirit disappeared by its flesh removed from its body mass.

Life is light.
Gods life in darkness death.

The dead spirit not alight was removed from the tomb given life....burning.

Basic advice God was entombed not burning. Was deceased.

By female science space womb thesis. Maths science. Not the real mother as a human mother has sex to own a baby life.

Proving they were not discussing human life but using scientific values falsely and secretly. Sophist cunning contrivance So Phi A. Phi value.

Today you would ask did they know and lie about Jesus and the known all human life attacked teaching not just one man. Or did Rome get irradiated blasted. Why they said after Jesus Easter heavens attack just their lives got harmed.

As they self idolised after.
They had by armies wandered the earth marching and would have owned those memories.

Irradiation effect to cause self to feel special via supernatural causes.

DNA is stated one man nation condition.

They never believed Christ revelations originally.

When I was irradiated brain prickled next to my bed a speaking evil voice with harpsichord played.

As strange as it seems The Addams Family a tv show played the harpsichord.

I presumed when Rome burnt the supernatural was heard a violin sound.

After all breaking law stone burning of the ground life occurs.

Cause effect after Easter event would have linked incoming atmospheric phenomena. As the series causes is string linked.

New radiation experiments to Russian forest flattening.

2012 predicted non returns of UFO event life would have normalised and healed. Earth would have stopped core heart releases.

 

[CG Didymus]

Exactly. The whole purpose of Jesus becoming a human in the first place was to give his life in exchange (or as a ransom) for the one Adam lost for his children. (God's law is fulfilled in "a life for a life") Genesis explains the whole basis for the sacrifice of Jesus' life....the need for a Savior to rescue us from the sin and death to which we are all enslaved, with no way to bail ourselves out. It required a sinless life for a sinless life, but no human was sinless, so a life had to be produced from outside of Adam's faulty DNA.
Jesus was conceived as a human through the operation of God's holy spirit....not by natural means. This is why his mother had to be a virgin, because no physical intercourse was involved.

Adam created the debt.....the only cause of death in Eden was disobedience (breaking the only law that God gave to the first humans) We all know that death is foreign to us because the Bible explains that it was never supposed to happen. We are not created to accept death for ourselves or our loved ones.

"The tree of life" in the garden was a guarantee of everlasting life in mortal flesh. There was only one prohibited tree that God claimed as his own property. They had free access to the tree of life in the garden.

But after the pair had disobeyed that direct command and stole something to which they had no right, everything changed from that day on. They lost their paradise home and along with that, they lost access to the "tree of life".....so death would now overtake them...but not right away. It was a slow and gradual process and in the meantime God allowed them to fulfill his mandate to "fill the earth" with their children, (in spite of their inherent imperfections).....but what they could not do was to "subdue it" because sin would now work against that. Humans, instead of making the earth beautiful, have fouled it up due to their incredibly selfish interests. That was to be addressed in the future. God would bring those 'destroying the earth' to account.(Revelation 11:18)

So if the whole story is allegory then the whole theme of the Bible is destroyed. If Jesus wasn't resurrected then he could not return to God in heaven and resume his former place at God's right hand. (He was always the Logos or God's spokesman).

When he gave his final command to his disciples to preach about God's Kingdom and make disciples, Jesus said that he would be "with" them right up until the end of the present world system. (Matthew 28:19-20) He is directing everything from heaven, and he chose the first of those who will rule with him in his kingdom, and also many more from that time on. That does not allow for anyone else to come in the meantime and masquerade as the returned Christ, who was never going to return in human form. (John 14:19)

When Jesus brings this world to an accounting....everyone will know about it. The problems of this world will end with the one who caused it all in the first place. Revelation tells us all about his final destination and it will include all whom he has managed to convince of his deceptions. Peace and security will never be achieved through human means....but it doesn't mean that they won't try.....failure is assured.

How would you answer the Baha'i claims that once dead, a person can't come back to life? And that, even though God can do anything, he didn't bring Jesus or anyone else back to life... therefore, all those stories are symbolic? So Christians, by taking symbolic things as literal, have developed wrong doctrines and beliefs.

 

[rational experiences]

God by saviour asteroid stone gas replacement. Ice accrual end of year allowed birth by water oxygen no longer evaporating causing floods saved the baby life of Jesus.

Human baby healed.

Atmosphere mass returned by star.

Jesus just a name of a teacher man died the same as anyone dies.

Baby was the saviour.

Stigmata owned by anyone already proven Jewish notification masses of humans sacrificed. Not just one man body.

Adult man image on cross seen in clouds son of God sacrificed. Gas spirits.

Son of man sacrificed by his spiritual science father born a baby died by stigmata causes as adult man.

Exactly what it says. Ignored.

Cloud image caused by man human owned machine design and control did it to his own life.

Sacrifice cutting slashing stabbing said Roman temples Jerusalem owned by Roman elite sacrificed irradiated life by wandering attack.

Metal radiation UFO implants beneath skin radiation cooling unnaturally inside our heavens. Chemicals as perfumes leech from cells as does blood.

Sin of man was son of god sacrifice to self.

Rome hypocrites who caused radiation effect was hit by burning stone UFO fallout after Jesus

Built church Phi structure for sound sing of praises to heal sick perverted humanity ordered to attend three daily ceremonial cleansing. Implemented healing status.

Reason. Science never owned sun origin blasting of earth. Not mathematical calculated.

Roman burning of their cities not data. As maths never predicted it. Not in bible as was not data. Science never owned origin UFO effect.

Copying God mountain cities etched into stone facure they then built their own city on that basis.

One man sacrifice was the Roman brothers themselves. A copy of causes.

Mass Christian Christ revelations Jewish Christian group advice. Who said all human life had been science sacrificed as God core heart did it.

When life should be equal the answer why by it says God the earth heart is still sacrificing life. 2012 maths prediction said no alchemy allowed. Science satanism men took back control.

Removed human ability to heal. Nuclear repracticed.

Phenomena advice. Deceased imaged Roman human soldiers re emerged at ground attack. When body harm radiation effect to Jesus man occurred as spirits of the dead Roman men wandered around the earth previously was in the witnessed phenomena irradiation.

Meaning burnt lived living human experience occurred in the same causes to be heavenly recorded was its owned evidence. Had burnt image. Cooled image. Records reemerged.

Roman spirit presence the evidence.

Roman behaviour morality declined by radiation effect. History its own testimony.

All phenomena satanic phenomena conditions notified.
Humans claimed Roman soldier did it. Radiation UFO effect did it. Manifestations part of the teaching

Self experience witness of phenomena is the only teacher. I saw the released ground radiation as black signals that whipped my legs. They swelled at the ankle.

Why I know it was a real circumstance.

Also ignored as phenomena causes.

 

[Deeje]

How would you answer the Baha'i claims that once dead, a person can't come back to life? And that, even though God can do anything, he didn't bring Jesus or anyone else back to life... therefore, all those stories are symbolic?

Jesus and his apostles resurrected the dead.....that was literal, not metaphoric.
Jesus' resurrection of Lazarus was literal. (John 11:11-14)
He raised the daughter of Jairus.(Luke 8:41-42; 49-56)
There was also the only son of a widow. (Luke 7:11-15)

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17....Paul wrote...
"Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. 14 For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus. 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord."
Nothing allegorical about any of that....

If Jesus was not resurrected then he could not return to heaven to present the value of his sacrifice to God.
Hebrews 9:22-24....
"Yes, according to the Law nearly all things are cleansed with blood, and unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place.

23 Therefore, it was necessary for the typical representations of the things in the heavens to be cleansed by these means, but the heavenly things require far better sacrifices. 24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf."

So Christians, by taking symbolic things as literal, have developed wrong doctrines and beliefs.

I know whose doctrines I believe are wrong....those who try to make Jehovah the God of every false religion. The God who punished his people for their adoption of false religious beliefs and practices. The "jealous" God who tolerates no rival deities or false religious practices. (Exodus 20:2-6)

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, exactly. So the writers came up with a parable? Or, did they make up a story about an empty tomb and Jesus appearing to the disciples? I'm just saying, to me, if it's not true, that I don't believe it was an allegorical story where Christ's body is really the "body" of believers. If it is not true, then I think the writers based their stories on the legends and traditions and if those were good enough and not miraculous enough, added in some embellishments of their own. I don't see the followers being able to get away with stealing the body of Jesus and not getting caught in the lie that Jesus had rose from the dead. But I feel sorry for all the people that were deceived into believing Jesus had risen from the dead, and was coming back soon, and were tortured to death for their beliefs.

If you want to understand the intent of the biblical authors, start with Paul of Tarsus. He speaks of having seen the resurrected Christ as the other disciples had seen Christ. Yet we know Paul didn’t convert to Christianity until a few years after the resurrection appearances of Jesus to His Disciples. You will recall Jesus ascended into heaven as recorded in Acts of the Apostles 1:9-11. Yet it wasn’t until much later in Acts of the Apostles 9:1-19 when Paul first encounters Jesus on the road to Damascus through being blinded and hearing the voice of Jesus asking of Paul why he was persecuting Him. This is not the resurrected Jesus as He had already ascended to heaven beyond the Stratosphere. Paul further describes his experiences in Acts of the Apostles 22:6-21 and Acts of the Apostles 26:12-18.

Paul speaks of his encounter with the risen Christ in 1 Corinthians 15:4-9. Yet the narrative of this chapter is about Eternal life and the journey of the soul after death. So already we have the resurrection of Jesus used to explain the resurrection of our earthly bodies after we depart this mortal realm. The resurrection is used to describe life after death for us all.

Paul doesn’t mention the empty tomb. That concept is first introduced through the Gospel of Mark written much later. The original Mark uses the empty tomb to hint at the resurrection but stops there. It isn’t until Luke, Matthew and John that the resurrection story becomes much more elaborate.

You might want to consider the plausibility of Jesus, executed as a criminal being placed in a tomb. Then we have the conflicting accounts in the Gospels of what happened after the empty tomb is discovered.

So can you show me where in the gospel of Luke you believe it goes from telling about the events that happened during the crucifixion to a parable about an empty tomb and a resurrected Jesus? I think that if it was told as being real, historical events, that, in those days and even today, believers are going to take as being actual historical events. For those of us that don't believe, then of course, nothing about the story sounds real.

The story of the crucifixion is embellished with the temple being torn, an earthquake and the dead rising from their graves with Christ being crucified in Matthew 27:50-54. The experience of Jesus being resurrected was real for the disciples. It just needed to be told as if it literally happened to convey the intense spiritual power that galvanised the disciples to spread the Gospel far and wide.

But I still ask... why doubt that God can bring dead cells back to life but believe that God can and did make a human baby without the DNA from a human male? It sure seems to me that all the stories are doing nothing more than trying to show how anything is possible for God. And this human he created, Jesus, was something special... almost God-like. I think from beginning to end, the stories went out of their way to make Jesus God in the flesh. If the stories are true... if they are only allegorical, then maybe this Jesus wasn't so special.

We all need to investigate the truth for ourselves and adhere to the outcome of that investigation. You have made your choice as I have made mine. All the best with that.

 

[CG Didymus]

The story of the crucifixion is embellished

How are you defining "embellished"? Because I'm using it as saying things that aren't true... or lying. If the gospel writers lied or the legends of Jesus resurrecting were made up traditions, then how can we call the gospels "The Word of God"? So to clarify, Baha'is believe the gospels did embellish the stories about Jesus. Which then could include the resurrection story. Or, do Baha'is believe the resurrection story was a parable?

We all need to investigate the truth for ourselves and adhere to the outcome of that investigation.

So let's see what we got so far...

1 Corinthians 15:3 Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep...

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith...

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body...

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
​

In Acts 1 it says...

3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive.​

In Luke 24 it says...

22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive...

36 Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”​

Okay was it a vision? Maybe to Paul. But Paul also says that Jesus was raised from the dead? So what do Baha'is believe about the spirit of a person? It is part of them from conception? That when the body dies, the spirit goes off to a spiritual world? But this resurrection didn't happen to Jesus for three days? Then Paul says the natural body dies and a spiritual body rises up? And that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God? But in Acts it says Jesus showed himself to be alive. And in Luke it says the women saw a vision of angels, but when it comes to Jesus, they don't call that a vision. And Jesus, himself, says he is not a ghost but has flesh and bone. Things that shouldn't be part of what Paul says makes up a resurrected spiritual body.

If Jesus was not resurrected then he could not return to heaven to present the value of his sacrifice to God.

So Deeje, what is the JW interpretation of all this?

​

 

[Dawnofhope]

How are you defining "embellished"? Because I'm using it as saying things that aren't true... or lying. If the gospel writers lied or the legends of Jesus resurrecting were made up traditions, then how can we call the gospels "The Word of God"? So to clarify, Baha'is believe the gospels did embellish the stories about Jesus. Which then could include the resurrection story. Or, do Baha'is believe the resurrection story was a parable?

I would never refer to the Gospel writers as ‘liars’. The accusation is usually part of an atheist-Christian dialogue where both parties are trying to undermine the other’s point of view. The discussion is based on the premise put forward by conservative Christians that the Gospel writers, particularly Matthew and John were eye witnesses to the account of which they write. Further they are setting out to accurately record historical events.

Of course there are events within the Gospel accounts that are unlikely to have happened even accounting for an Omniscient God and in case of the resurrection it is virtually impossible. Why is it impossible? Because the ascension of Christ through the stratosphere to be with His Father in heaven relies on a cosmology that has been utterly debunked by science. The earth isn’t the centre of the universe with everything revolving around it. The universe isn’t a dome with the earth floating on water, with the biblical heaven above and sheol below. Beyond the stratosphere there is the emptiness of outer space and then celestial bodies such as stars, planets, moons and asteroids.

A parable is a simple short story used to teach a lesson. Jesus spoke in parables but the Gospel accounts are not parables. They are biographical accounts that have been deliberately redacted to convey something of the spiritual nature of Christ. We could describe the aspects that are not literally true or historical in many ways. They are not lies because the Gospel accounts are primarily religious narratives not historical accounts. Once that is understood there is no need for the somewhat childish sparring that takes place between atheist and Christian apologist.

So let's see what we got so far...
1 Corinthians 15:3 Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep...

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith...

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body...

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
In Acts 1 it says...
3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. In Luke 24 it says...
22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive...

36 Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
Okay was it a vision? Maybe to Paul. But Paul also says that Jesus was raised from the dead? So what do Baha'is believe about the spirit of a person? It is part of them from conception? That when the body dies, the spirit goes off to a spiritual world? But this resurrection didn't happen to Jesus for three days? Then Paul says the natural body dies and a spiritual body rises up? And that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God? But in Acts it says Jesus showed himself to be alive. And in Luke it says the women saw a vision of angels, but when it comes to Jesus, they don't call that a vision. And Jesus, himself, says he is not a ghost but has flesh and bone. Things that shouldn't be part of what Paul says makes up a resurrected spiritual body.

Baha’is believe we have a soul that begins at conception and continues to progress through the world’s of God after this mortal life. Our physical bodies do not remain associated with the soul after death. We don’t believe our physical bodies with be resurrected on judgement day as some Christians do based on a literal understanding of 1 Corinthians 15.

As we know from scripture flesh can’t inherit the kingdom of God. Therefore the body of Jesus literally ascending to heaven in Acts contradicts scripture. The story of Jesus being flesh and bones after his death is used to convey the spiritual reality of Christ triumphing over death, something we can all attain through the example of His Life and Teachings.

 

[rational experiences]

When a thesis is written to substantiate that Moses ape irradiated life gain lost genetics real. Copied. Did it again. The thesis would state why. Loss of genetic cell function as blood flesh bone.

One mass of a body of spirit removed. That by information womb. Vacuum. From Moses event. Took about 13000 to 10000 years to return.

The body of mass gas removed.

Christ to Satan immaculate says one day is 1000.

God owned immaculate spirit in womb balanced sacrificed day constant.

God heavens naturally owned light constant and sacrificed spirit. Not man.

Day by day man applied science nuclear conversion. Ancient thesis was melt as it was a gold product philosophers Alchemy therefore eventually caused the amount of years mass gain by 1000 removal. Each day.

So about four or five years would eradicate evolution of mass. Using same science model. Temple pyramid.

When you say the son of god is a cloud image. We know we live on the ground and are not any cloud.

Son of man a baby the firstborn status lost their fathers mother's genetics.

Which means so did his sister as life is equal.

Not discussed in Jesus format as psychic self body life awareness is a self experience. As any spiritual psychic knows.

Why so many holy people are accepted.

The status is if Christ CH gas spirit was removed none of us would be living today.

The thesis a mass of gases were removed. As a body inference.

For night to become day and be counted as slight burning then stopped is the scenario how a holy DNA human life was mutated...sacrificed...survived....lived on.

Just like we do today.

So we know 2012 end nuclear UFO time attack was known. Science had agreed to not practice nuclear satanism ever again.

The status warning to self.

When the theist acts in a s n I d e character sophism. You have to realise personality disorders is involved.

As God never changed. God never went anywhere. My theory is not to change God. His theory is just a theory for a reaction.

We therefore ask him why are you looking for God then?

No answer.

Image in heavens is lost out of cloud protection. Human living irradiated says protected life went to hell. Which is not the experience human. Human just irradiated gets visions change.

Human only irradiated.

The resurrected image of God man was put back after it was removed. As cloud mass had been burnt as cold gas by UFO condition.

Humans therefore became the victim of the scientist machine reactions. A cause effect.

Jesus man adult claim would say firstborn DNA gone. Was his self historic. First father first mother of all humans already deceased. His family life real as a human. He told a psychic vision.

As baby in clouds image parents in clouds image man in clouds was a virtual psychic attack.

Reason atmospheric lived life recorded in heavens remains after human death.

How a human without microscopes or data use can describe why his life was given back by immaculate saviour gas history. Then sacrificed and lost.

Science cause.

 

[Deeje]

So Deeje, what is the JW interpretation of all this?

I believe that @adrian009 will believe what he has accepted as his truth for his own reasons. Many who have been raised in Christendom have likewise defected for something they find more believable or more in line with their understanding of modern science. I know I that defected from Christendom but I did not find human theoretical science to be honest enough to try and squeeze it into the Bible narrative thereby making many of its factual statements and events into mere allegory. It simply doesn't work because it dismantles the very reason for why Jesus was sent.

The story of the crucifixion is embellished with the temple being torn, an earthquake and the dead rising from their graves with Christ being crucified in Matthew 27:50-54.

Who said? Just because one wishes to see it that way doesn't mean it happened as you imagined it must have. Your beliefs have actually embellished the historical accounts by implying that they never happened. You can choose to believe that...but what if you are dead wrong?

The experience of Jesus being resurrected was real for the disciples. It just needed to be told as if it literally happened to convey the intense spiritual power that galvanised the disciples to spread the Gospel far and wide.

Jesus' resurrection was witnessed by hundreds of people who all saw him after his resurrection.
1 Cor 15:5-7...
"and that he appeared to Ceʹphas [Peter], and then to the Twelve. 6 After that he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are still with us, though some have fallen asleep in death. 7 After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles."
Were 500 brothers all seeing the same vision? Or was Jesus a visible entity of flesh and bone as he said?

Of course there are events within the Gospel accounts that are unlikely to have happened even accounting for an Omniscient God and in case of the resurrection it is virtually impossible. Why is it impossible? Because the ascension of Christ through the stratosphere to be with His Father in heaven relies on a cosmology that has been utterly debunked by science. The earth isn’t the centre of the universe with everything revolving around it. The universe isn’t a dome with the earth floating on water, with the biblical heaven above and sheol below. Beyond the stratosphere there is the emptiness of outer space and then celestial bodies such as stars, planets, moons and asteroids.

Why "unlikely"....is anything too difficult for the Creator of all things? Jesus was raised as a spirit, not as a man of flesh and blood. (1 Peter 3:18) Angelic messengers in the past appeared to God's earthly servants as humans...they ate and drank and spoke with these ones face to face. Were they really humans? Or was it that they could materialize in human form so as not to frighten the ones they were sent to inform them of God's intentions? Where did they go when their mission was fulfilled? They simply dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm. You think we need puny man's flawed ideas of science to tell God what he can and cannot do? What place does the stratosphere have in that scenario? None at all that I can see. God's science is way more sophisticated and advanced than the musings of scientifically minded infants.

If humans are so clever with their application of science, then why is the world in such a mess...literally? Our junk not only pollutes our earth, it is even orbiting it.
"NASA estimates the population of debris between one and 10 centimeters is about 500,000 objects. The latest models from the European Space Agency estimates that figure is closer to 900,00 objects in space."

How do you put trust in such short sighted individuals?

A parable is a simple short story used to teach a lesson. Jesus spoke in parables but the Gospel accounts are not parables. They are biographical accounts that have been deliberately redacted to convey something of the spiritual nature of Christ. We could describe the aspects that are not literally true or historical in many ways. They are not lies because the Gospel accounts are primarily religious narratives not historical accounts. Once that is understood there is no need for the somewhat childish sparring that takes place between atheist and Christian apologist.

When Jesus spoke in parables it was obvious and the lessons drew on common, ordinary things that affected the people of the day.
Much of what is reported in the Bible accounts talk about people who are a part of history, apart from the Bible, Dates are also indicated for some things. We know that Nisan 14 was the date of the Jewish Passover and that year it fell on a Friday. Jesus instituted his memorial supper on what we would call Thursday night, but the Jewish day began at sunset and the execution of Jesus took place on that Friday because the Sabbath (Saturday) began at sundown that day. Jesus was in his tomb for three days and nights but he was resurrected as he said he would be. If Jesus wasn't resurrected, then what Paul said in Hebrews 9:22-24 can't be true...
"Yes, according to the Law nearly all things are cleansed with blood, and unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place.
23 Therefore, it was necessary for the typical representations of the things in the heavens to be cleansed by these means, but the heavenly things require far better sacrifices. 24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf."

He had to return to heaven because that is where he appeared before God to present the value of his precious blood that released us from the grip of sin and death. His mission was fully accomplished and the next time people saw him, it would be as judge and with an army of angelic executioners, 'separating the sheep from the goats'. (Matthew 25:30-34: 46) This is not a "Jesus saves everyone" scenario.

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe that @adrian009 will believe what he has accepted as his truth for his own reasons. Many who have been raised in Christendom have likewise defected for something they find more believable or more in line with their understanding of modern science. I know I that defected from Christendom but I did not find human theoretical science to be honest enough to try and squeeze it into the Bible narrative thereby making many of its factual statements and events into mere allegory. It simply doesn't work because it dismantles the very reason for why Jesus was sent.

My argument has always been that even if it isn't true, I believe the intent of the resurrection stories was that it was true. But then, if it really wasn't true, then how can anyone make out the gospel writers to be anything but liars? That's the problem I have with Baha'is. They say Jesus is dead. His body has probably long since rotted away. But, for them not to make it a lie, and still not be literally true, they come up with allegorical, symbolic interpretations. But it's more than just not needing nor wanting a resurrected Jesus, they also have no use for him being the one that is returning. So any verses that even hint at Jesus coming back are also symbolic, and it is the "Christ" spirit that is coming back. After they've finished "interpreting" the gospels, I really don't see why they even need Jesus at all.

 

[Deeje]

My argument has always been that even if it isn't true, I believe the intent of the resurrection stories was that it was true. But then, if it really wasn't true, then how can anyone make out the gospel writers to be anything but liars? That's the problem I have with Baha'is. They say Jesus is dead. His body has probably long since rotted away. But, for them not to make it a lie, and still not be literally true, they come up with allegorical, symbolic interpretations. But it's more than just not needing nor wanting a resurrected Jesus, they also have no use for him being the one that is returning. So any verses that even hint at Jesus coming back are also symbolic, and it is the "Christ" spirit that is coming back. After they've finished "interpreting" the gospels, I really don't see why they even need Jesus at all.

To each their own...and for their own reasons. God will not invite those who can't accept his word as it is written.
If Jesus didn't die, then the ransom is not paid....we are all still doomed to death because of Adam's sin.
If Jesus was just another prophet like Baháʼu'lláh, (whose name I still cannot pronounce) then his death meant nothing at all.

It was prophesied that God would not allow his son's body to decay, (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:31) so the empty tomb was a visible reminder that Christ's body was no longer required once it had been sacrificed. He was raised as a spirit and his body was nowhere to be found.

I guess they have to make Jesus the same as Baháʼu'lláh....just a godly man who died. They have Baháʼu'lláh's body in a tomb....

.....so where is Jesus' body? Where is his tomb?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I believe that @adrian009 will believe what he has accepted as his truth for his own reasons. Many who have been raised in Christendom have likewise defected for something they find more believable or more in line with their understanding of modern science. I know I that defected from Christendom but I did not find human theoretical science to be honest enough to try and squeeze it into the Bible narrative thereby making many of its factual statements and events into mere allegory. It simply doesn't work because it dismantles the very reason for why Jesus was sent.

In some respects our beliefs are polar opposites. What works for you wouldn’t work for me anymore than the Baha’i Faith would not work for you. Many Christians would consider neither of our faiths as being reflective of true Christianity. We’ve both journeyed from mainstream Christianity to arrive at a destination of what makes sense to us personally. Both our faiths claim to understand true Christianity and accepts at least some of the Christianity’s tenants. The disbelief in a literal bodily resurrection is an important difference between the Baha’is and mainstream Christians.

I believe one shouldn’t blindly accept the faith they were raised in or join any new religion without thoroughly investigating it beforehand. A religion that at least respects science and the scientific community is a non negotiable principle for me. Having a respect for the diversity of humanity’ experience is another essential. A belief in a literal resurrection fundamentally undermines both science and religious diversity. Ironically to emphasise a physical resurrection is to fundamentally misunderstand the purpose Jesus came.

Who said? Just because one wishes to see it that way doesn't mean it happened as you imagined it must have. Your beliefs have actually embellished the historical accounts by implying that they never happened. You can choose to believe that...but what if you are dead wrong?

What if I’m right?

A literal resurrection relies on an outdated and redundant cosmology. It relies on biblical literalism. It make no sense whatsoever to believe the physical body of a man ascended through the stratosphere into outer space.

Jesus' resurrection was witnessed by hundreds of people who all saw him after his resurrection.
1 Cor 15:5-7...
"and that he appeared to Ceʹphas [Peter], and then to the Twelve. 6 After that he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are still with us, though some have fallen asleep in death. 7 After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles."
Were 500 brothers all seeing the same vision? Or was Jesus a visible entity of flesh and bone as he said?

So who were the 500 and where is the evidence outside the Bible such a phenomenal event happened?

You omitted 1 Corinthians 15:8-9. Paul, like the 500 also saw the resurrected Christ, except the road to Damascus experience described in Acts of the Apostles 9:1-19 occurred long after the ascension of Christ described in Acts of the Apostles 1:19. So Paul’s resurrection experience unless it has been omitted in any NT book is a mystical experience.

When Jesus spoke in parables it was obvious and the lessons drew on common, ordinary things that affected the people of the day.
Much of what is reported in the Bible accounts talk about people who are a part of history, apart from the Bible, Dates are also indicated for some things. We know that Nisan 14 was the date of the Jewish Passover and that year it fell on a Friday. Jesus instituted his memorial supper on what we would call Thursday night, but the Jewish day began at sunset and the execution of Jesus took place on that Friday because the Sabbath (Saturday) began at sundown that day. Jesus was in his tomb for three days and nights but he was resurrected as he said he would be. If Jesus wasn't resurrected, then what Paul said in Hebrews 9:22-24 can't be true...
"Yes, according to the Law nearly all things are cleansed with blood, and unless blood is poured out no forgiveness takes place.
23 Therefore, it was necessary for the typical representations of the things in the heavens to be cleansed by these means, but the heavenly things require far better sacrifices. 24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf."

He had to return to heaven because that is where he appeared before God to present the value of his precious blood that released us from the grip of sin and death. His mission was fully accomplished and the next time people saw him, it would be as judge and with an army of angelic executioners, 'separating the sheep from the goats'. (Matthew 25:30-34: 46) This is not a "Jesus saves everyone" scenario.?

I’m not sure what you are saying here or how any of it is relevant. I’ve already made clear the Gospel resurrection narratives aren’t parables.

Why "unlikely"....is anything too difficult for the Creator of all things? Jesus was raised as a spirit, not as a man of flesh and blood. (1 Peter 3:18) Angelic messengers in the past appeared to God's earthly servants as humans...they ate and drank and spoke with these ones face to face. Were they really humans? Or was it that they could materialize in human form so as not to frighten the ones they were sent to inform them of God's intentions? Where did they go when their mission was fulfilled? They simply dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm. You think we need puny man's flawed ideas of science to tell God what he can and cannot do? What place does the stratosphere have in that scenario? None at all that I can see. God's science is way more sophisticated and advanced than the musings of scientifically minded infants.

If humans are so clever with their application of science, then why is the world in such a mess...literally? Our junk not only pollutes our earth, it is even orbiting it.
"NASA estimates the population of debris between one and 10 centimeters is about 500,000 objects. The latest models from the European Space Agency estimates that figure is closer to 900,00 objects in space."

How do you put trust in such short sighted individuals?

The World Wide Web seems to be working remarkably well allowing us to have this discussion. My TV, car and planes that flew my family to Wellington and back all work exceptionally well. The problem isn’t with science. The problem is the widespread decline of morality. Yet regardless there are many positive changes in our world from progress towards equality of men and women, to overcoming racism to improving prosperity for most peoples that we all benefit from. Your whole narrative just reflects your issues with science, the same science that provides a worldview that contradicts long held biblical beliefs including the bodily ascension of Christ through the stratosphere. However if you wish to reject science we have free will. The harmony of science and religion are core Baha’i beliefs. If science absolutely disproves something religion states is true, accept the science and reject the superstition.