What was the intent of the Gospel authors when writing of the resurrection of Christ?

[Marcion]

This is another mystery of the resurrection.

The old is resurrected and made new.

It is the new that becomes the base for our spiritual development, the old is cast off.

I'm not opposed to universalism nor to radical modernisation.
On a personal note however I prefer modernisation or restoration of spiritual philosophy and spiritual and social practices over the reworking of religious ideas and practices because they are too much mixed up with irrational ways of thinking.

If you reform an ideology mixed up with the irrational without radically removing those irrational aspects, you end up with yet another irrational religion instead of a spiritual movement.

The goal of spirituality goes beyond the rationality of the mind, but the path itself need not be irrational, especially in this day and age. It will not be modern enough and less suited for this age of science and higher education.
You cannot repair the irrational in religion by adding yet more irrationality from a different angle.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The old is resurrected and made new.

Do you mean the old and useless should never be junked?

If you reform an ideology mixed up with the irrational without radically removing those irrational aspects, you end up with yet another irrational religion instead of a spiritual movement.
It will not be modern enough and less suited for this age of science and higher education.
You cannot repair the irrational in religion by adding yet more irrationality from a different angle.

^^^

So it is up to me to choose who had the Authority from God for such an interpretation? From my view in life, the intent has been made more clear by subsequent revelations from God, to which a Christian has not yet accepted

Even Bahais have not accepted the latest, Allah's message brought to the world by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
BTW, more people seem to have put their faith in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadianai than in Mírzá Ḥusayn-ʻAlí Núrí a.k.a. Bahaollah.
".. however, most independent sources variously estimate the population to be at least 10 to 20 million worldwide, thereby representing around 1% of the world's Muslim population." Ahmadiyya

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm not opposed to universalism nor to radical modernisation.
On a personal note however I prefer modernisation or restoration of spiritual philosophy and spiritual and social practices over the reworking of religious ideas and practices because they are too much mixed up with irrational ways of thinking.

If you reform an ideology mixed up with the irrational without radically removing those irrational aspects, you end up with yet another irrational religion instead of a spiritual movement.

The goal of spirituality goes beyond the rationality of the mind, but the path itself need not be irrational, especially in this day and age. It will not be modern enough and less suited for this age of science and higher education.
You cannot repair the irrational in religion by adding yet more irrationality from a different angle.

That is what was offered, all things are made new.

New frames of references are created, that give entirely new ways of looking at age old concepts. It is like. Looking with new eyes and hearing with new ears.

The resurrection story is a great example. No one is able to ask the authors what they intended with the stories they told. We do know that the Bible is recorded as God's Word.

It is highly unlikely and scientifically sound that they did not intend to suggest that the flesh body of Jesus lived on.

Luckily, we can choose to use a new frame of reference when we consider this topic. We do now know that since Jesus There has been frames of references offered by other Messengers, who also have Claimed a Message from that same God.

So the quandary we all face. Do we use the historical Christain explanation of the story, which has become scientifically improbable, do we come to our own conclusion based on our own thoughts, Or do we look for any other possible God given frames of reference, before we draw a conclusion.

There are other ancient faiths that have such stories. Maybe in this modern age, with new frames of references, we can see a common truth being told in those stories.

To me it is like listening to Australian Aboriginal Creation stories, knowing all the while that a snake creating a river is a spiritual way of describing the material process.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you mean the old and useless should never be junked?

Nothing is useless, when it served its purpose. The stories have served the purpose of enabling the unity of purpose and we can still tell those stories, in the light of new knowledge.

I was reading that Krishna also has many such stories recorded in the Bhagavad-gita.

Regards Tony

 

[Marcion]

The story of the resurrection of Christ is recorded in all four Canonical Gospels and is one of the most important aspects of Christian Faith.

Actually, the kerygma part of the story about Jesus has a singular origin because the three later gospel stories are embellished copies of the oldest one, the gospel of Mark (gMark).

Hugh M. Humphrey explains in his book 'From Q to "Secret" Mark, A Composition History of the Earliest Narrative Gospel' how he thinks that gMark was probably or possibly written in two stages by Mark, the first bishop of Alexandria.

In the first stage he wrote about the travels and miracles and teachings of Jesus partly based on Q (the oldest sayings of Jesus gospel). Somewhat later he added the second part, the kerygma story which shifted the emphasis from Jesus the Master or Teacher towards the resurrected godman or Christ.
The kerygma part is clearly fiction (e.g. a scene is described with Jesus speaking things in prayer in a garden setting with no-one else present).

The author joined the two quite different halves of the story quite simply by making Jesus predict the kerygma part on several occasions during his teaching phase.

The kerygma to me has a very fictional feel, but I cannot rule out that the mission did end in such a type of tragedy, unless Jesus himself was totally fictional or mythical.
Otherwise it is hard to explain how the mission of Jesus came to such an abrupt end and why it lasted so short. The teachings of Jesus don't seem to be at all properly understood by the authors of the gospel stories which would fit well with a very short mission and a sudden disappearance of its master or guru.

The followers then picked up the meager pieces and still heavily impressed by the powers of and love of/for their master concocted a syncretic religion which would take the form of Christianity.
The idea of the kerygma was a fictional one possibly based on other such forms of worship in the Hellenistic culture.
It must have started in a small group of followers at a very early stage.
If it was entirely fictional then where did it develop?
Did the Ebionites already see Jesus in this way?

 

[rational experiences]

Their were two ideologies reviewed by men brothers in science.

Self presence. Human is origin to self a human. A human is nowhere else.

Ignored.

God stone seal straight from eternal release owning no space.

Ignored. One mass body.

Thesis comparing ideas speaking about science energy conditions non factually.

By inferring a planet tons body like a man human owned a body.

Actual.

Flesh of God was any product in stone as alchemical thesis to convert with purpose.

Human flesh owned no purpose to be changed.

What many of you lie about today in science.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Nothing is useless, when it served its purpose. The stories have served the purpose of enabling the unity of purpose and we can still tell those stories, in the light of new knowledge.
I was reading that Krishna also has many such stories recorded in the Bhagavad-gita.

BhagawadGita does not contain stories. Yes, we have our myths in Puranas. Now, myths are not history as you take them to be. They contain silly ideas about creation, evolution and God and his messengers (such and such person fulfilled prophecies, as if the mentioned prophecies were any truth). It is high time that such silly ideas should be discarded and dumped.
Religions can only bring strife and no unity.

 

[firedragon]

BhagawadGita does not contain stories.

Did I hear that right?

 

[firedragon]

BhagawadGita does not contain stories. Yes, we have our myths in Puranas. Now, myths are not history as you take them to be. They contain silly ideas about creation, evolution and God and his messengers (such and such person fulfilled prophecies, as if the mentioned prophecies were any truth). It is high time that such silly ideas should be discarded and dumped.
Religions can only bring strife and no unity.

I think its sillier to have such arrogant, obnoxious and false-masculine ideas like other peoples beliefs or books are all just silly. Which reminds me actually that generally educated atheists dont speak that type of language. Generally. But the few who speak so silly make a big noise and gather a large following of others.

Oh yes. That is sillier.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Did I hear that right?

The stories are in the Mahabharata and Bhagawat Purana, but Geeta itself is an advice for conduct in the world. It sure has taken the advantage of an incident in a story in Mahabharata.
I also tried to write my Gita, taking an advantage of an incident which happened during Rana Pratap's fight with Emperor Akbar, but I was not successful.

 

[firedragon]

The stories are in the Mahabharata and Bhagawat Purana, but Geeta itself is an advice for conduct in the world. It sure has taken the advantage of an incident in a story in Mahabharata.

Most stories are taken as a vessel for good advice. But that does not make them 'not stories'. Yet, I accept what you say here. The Bhagavad Gita is one of the most sophisticated strategic books in the world. Maybe close to Atilla the Hun and Art of war., but told as a story.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think its sillier to have such arrogant, obnoxious and false-masculine ideas like other peoples beliefs or books are all just silly. Which reminds me actually that generally educated atheists dont speak that type of language. Generally. But the few who speak so silly make a big noise and gather a large following of others.

I am not excluding the exaggerated Hindu myths. They too are just as false as the myths in other religions. I am sure you know about the 'vimanas' and 'brahmastra', the mythical Hindu airplanes and atom bombs.
BhagawadGita is not a treatise on the art of war, it is a treatise on 'duties' (dharma). The basic thing it says is do not waver from your duties for any reason whatsoever. If one is a police officer and a relative commits a crime, then it is the duty of the officer to act in accordance with the law and not be influenced by the fact that the person is his relative.

 

[firedragon]

I am not excluding the exaggerated Hindu myths. They too are just as false as the myths in other religions. I am sure you know about the 'vimanas' and 'brahmastra', the mythical Hindu airplanes and atom bombs.
BhagawadGita is not a treatise on the art of war, it is a treatise on 'duties' (dharma). The basic thing it says is do not waver from your duties for any reason whatsoever. If one is a police officer and a relative commits a crime, then it is the duty of the officer to act in accordance with the law and not be influenced by the fact that the person is his relative.

You missed the whole point brother.

 

[rational experiences]

Science does not discuss in its journals why humans exist today

They talk science. They don't talk sex.

Then irradiated humans due to chosen science nuclear temple pyramids talk sex talk in their themes. Religious ideals.

Proving human genetics DNA changed so did the chemical brain. Behaviour changed.

Reason a thinker theoried a past reaction.

Present safe no reaction existed.

The two natural places not the same. Reacted the past memory reaction in the present attacked sacrificed life claiming innocence I never knew as I was not living in the past.

The human condition in science to lie about safety of life.

Today. Memories of human science in the past. I was button pushing. I am still alive today. So using the reaction proved I am safe. Ignores attacked life advice.

But don't you preach sacrificed life in the future as a self will return to do it again as you did before. The same human pattern choice warning to self.

So a self destroyer mentality personality disorder assessment had been applied. The reason for it. Humans who reasoned reasoning.

Reason. The effect kept returning attacking life as extra radiation UFO. Put it in paintings as advice seen without taking photo.

Theme God kept punishing humans for origin sin of man science choice to break natural law stone seals dusts.

Theme man listened to satanic advice false O planet sex of God to get heavenly spirit gases. God reaction evicted life equally out of nature garden. Man's first God earth sin science

God information said seals.present. means presence. Dust fissioned present presence removed man science sin.

Exactly how it was taught.

Fake female maths O Sophia science about fusion.

Fusion in maths is fusion and not O maths. What you lied about. Science theoried O for fission not fusion.

 

[ToGodorNottoGod]

A belief in a literal bodily resurrection and ascension is one such belief. It cuts across science. The ascension of Christ through the stratosphere into outer space (heaven) as implied in Acts of the Apostles 1:9-11, relies on an obsolete cosmology. Its an overt clash between science and religion on a parallel with Christianity’s geocentric view of the universe and young earth.

It appears extremely difficult for Christians to openly reject a belief in the resurrection/ascension, especially in Protestant circles. Catholicism appears a little more able to tolerate diversity of beliefs. Is that correct?

Excellent points. It is why Joseph Campbell taught it is quite important not to concretize the metaphors in religion or you miss the entire point of them. The ascension of Jesus was not up out into outer space, it was his personal ascension into his own inner space, i.e. apparently via the chakras. Hey come on admit it, that is one way out the impasse...GRIN!

 

[rational experiences]

Science occult asks spiritual humanity today by mind contact mind transmitted control behaviours mind psyche questions. Do you remember. What visions do you own about past occult sciences.

How psychic are you. Spiritual healing self tell us.

Became an organised pursuit in science. Occult advice.

Science a choice only was never real.

Life is real. Self presence self human real. Human origin owned by a human living their origin. Healthy human our origin.

Science said did life die yet survived in sacrificed statement. Occult science past.

Yes scientist life did die sacrificed but we survived. We are living proof. Surviving only still irradiated. UFO the proof.

Not a miracle. We live inside natural mass heavens that science and machine reactions never owned. Our heavens.

All your products science from God earth.

But he says thinking I changed God gas earth to a heavens gas. Why is the heavens still existing.

One status womb space vacuum immaculate.

What earth God never owned.

Mother womb did

So is it any wonder that occult thinking named maths Sophia female with intent of converting the heavens again by stated detailed UFO gain?

To copy copying reasoning first science activation as if science is not being practiced yet.

Six days of night time even ING gases burnt as K constant thesis of old symbols K ING,? A science thesis reasoned why life got sacrificed.

Which cooled and left UFO effect gases as lights burning at night.

One of event in earth history out back by science. Heavenly mass evolution removed. Mass however enough for life survival.

The actual teaching against the occult cause

To copy bible status today by intricate step by step meaning. To begin science itself. As humans were living in the created all looking back for a thesis.

I want to do it again precisely as stated. As if the Bible is a Step by step how to theory.

Yet cause UFO presence won't allow action ignition. As a beginning thesis science.

UFO was present in flooded earth vision was not present in human first science mass maths UFO theory. Ground flood water evaporation dispersed it he owned living origin healthy spiritual first life.

How a vision about UFO mass theme was gained by a little shared atmospheric transmitter.

Science put back the UFO mass their own selves as where they lived as origin human life was not being sacrificed.

Light constant origin was never owned in science. Vacuum owned it.

They introduced ground life attack their own selves. God had not stopped sacrificing life since due to sin of man in science.

What he lied about. The UFO condition.