What We Thought

[metis]

Meantime, not to get off the subject, but why the Pope is considering that mankind may destroy itself if he, in fact, believes in evolution now?

What??? That's not even remotely logical as there's no connection between evolution and a possible nuclear war.

The rest has already been explained to you many times over, but you just blow the science off.

 

[gnostic]

Perhaps your fundamentalist church taught you that God created everything in a 24-hour day. But you probably know that the word day in the Bible does not systematically equate to a 24-hour period.

Genesis 1 say nothing about hours...but Genesis does speak of each day being a cycle of evening and morning.

5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

8 God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

...and so on, to the 6th day (Genesis 1:31).

No 24-hour, but the Jewish yom can only be interpreted as a period of time is a day, because the “evening and morning” contextually mean day.

Each day in Genesis 1 is a day, and not some random period of time of various lengths.

“And there was evening and there was morning” certainly DON’T EQUATE TO a century, or a millennium or a million years.

A passage, especially a sentence, needs to make contextual sense. You cannot substitute a day with a thousand years or more. Only someone being either ignorant or dishonest will equate a evening & a morning to a thousand years or a million years.

Dishonesty is a hallmark of propaganda. People who think they can ignore the context of a sentence, by fabricating whatever meaning they desire, cannot be trusted.

Ignorance is the hallmark of shoddy scholarship or toddler-level reading comprehension.

When I became agnostic, it wasn’t Genesis Creation and Evolution that set my path to agnosticism. It was the NT’s so-called sign (Matthew 1:23) don’t match up with the original sign (Isaiah 7:14-17); Isaiah’s sign had nothing to do with Mary and Jesus.

Understanding Isaiah’s sign required reading the entire chapter, and not cherrypicking a verse and changing its meaning, as the gospel author have done.

That’s what made me not trust the gospels in the first place. The NT authors taking the original OT passages out-of-context.

Here, with regards to your handling of Genesis 1, I don’t trust your interpretation of what a day mean.

 

[YoursTrue]

Natural selection could not have done it by itself, but mutations and genetic drift could have been involved.

What do you mean that natural selection could not have done it by itself? You think maybe there was a thought process involved in choosing the outcome of an organism that scientists say evolved? Certainly the organism itself did not figure out how to mutate or change ability to accimate, did it? I mean let's go back to the snow crabs that scientists say are in jeopardy, they're not sure why. Maybe climate change, maybe disease they say. That's what I heard. I'm not saying it was not impossible by the laws of genetics for some crabs to have mutated to have the ability o survive in cold waters that other crabs could not have. But again -- crabs remain crabs, don't they? And of course, so far as we have seen, viruses remain viruses no matter how often they mutate.

 

[YoursTrue]

What??? That's not even remotely logical as there's no connection between evolution and a possible nuclear war.

The rest has already been explained to you many times over, but you just blow the science off.

Yes, there is definitely a connection between the theory of evolution and nuclear war. If the Pope believed what the Bible says about creation -- what makes him or anyone think that GOD cannot stop war -- (not people). So I'm not going to go into whether or not he or you believe that Jesus taught his disciples for real to pray the Lord's prayer (or what is sometimes called the "Our Father" prayer).

 

[YoursTrue]

What??? That's not even remotely logical as there's no connection between evolution and a possible nuclear war.

The rest has already been explained to you many times over, but you just blow the science off.

Well, why worry, if there are extinct species, perhaps you or the Pope might think mankind could be extinct, you know like kill itself off. I guess nuclear war putting an end to the human race would not be "natural selection." So just for elucidation, Jesus DID pray, "Our Father in heaven, hallowed by thy name, LET YOUR KINGDOM COME..."

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yes, there is definitely a connection between the theory of evolution and nuclear war.

Yes, there is.
They are both scientific realities.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Please do show me the conjectural evidence that life continued to form, or grow (shall we say?) from a few cells that flew in from outer space, or bubbled in the waters, ok? Not speaking of abiogenesis but rather any viable evidence that life happened to grow by selective adaptation eventually to become humans anyway. Gorillas, or chimpanzees, etc. Meantime, not to get off the subject, but why the Pope is considering that mankind may destroy itself if he, in fact, believes in evolution now? (In other words either God exists and created the heavens and the earth -- or He did NOT create these things and there was no plan...) Please explain your thesis that life grew (using the expression) from a few cells to morph into plants and animals, ok? Thanks. Well, really, not to be disrespectful, but never mind about explaining your thesis unless -- there is P-R-O=O=F. OK? You only gave your opinion about it. Thanks. And with all due respect, we don't have to talk about this anymore if you prefer. That's fine.

How is the Pope's claim that we will destroy ourselves in any way related to evolution at all????

Evolution is a fact of life. The theory of evolution explains how evolution operates.

You think you're smarter than all the experts in the world on this. You, with zero training in any sciences whatsoever. You, who doesn't seem to know the difference between abiogenesis and evolution. How very interesting.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, there is definitely a connection between the theory of evolution and nuclear war. If the Pope believed what the Bible says about creation -- what makes him or anyone think that GOD cannot stop war -- (not people). So I'm not going to go into whether or not he or you believe that Jesus taught his disciples for real to pray the Lord's prayer (or what is sometimes called the "Our Father" prayer).

When has any god ever stopped any war? Ever?

 

[F1fan]

What do you mean that natural selection could not have done it by itself? You think maybe there was a thought process involved in choosing the outcome of an organism that scientists say evolved?

The lottery of genetics has no design or intent any more than bingo numbers do.

Certainly the organism itself did not figure out how to mutate or change ability to accimate, did it? I mean let's go back to the snow crabs that scientists say are in jeopardy, they're not sure why. Maybe climate change, maybe disease they say. That's what I heard. I'm not saying it was not impossible by the laws of genetics for some crabs to have mutated to have the ability o survive in cold waters that other crabs could not have. But again -- crabs remain crabs, don't they? And of course, so far as we have seen, viruses remain viruses no matter how often they mutate.

Your understanding os science continues to be flawed and overly simplistic. This is typical of creationists whose beliefs are overly simplistic and rely on God doing magic to fill in the problems. Science is competent and shows its work following facts. Creationism tries to create literature that compromises a bad interpretation of the Bible to what science reports. Creationists don't do any science work, they create fiction. This is why the intelligent and well educated read science and not creationism.

 

[metis]

What do you mean that natural selection could not have done it by itself? You think maybe there was a thought process involved in choosing the outcome of an organism that scientists say evolved?

Yes, there is definitely a connection between the theory of evolution and nuclear war.

If the Pope believed what the Bible says about creation -- what makes him or anyone think that GOD cannot stop war -- (not people). So I'm not going to go into whether or not he or you believe that Jesus taught his disciples for real to pray the Lord's prayer (or what is sometimes called the "Our Father" prayer).

Well, why worry, if there are extinct species, perhaps you or the Pope might think mankind could be extinct, you know like kill itself off.

The more you post the more it's obvious that you not only don't understand even the most basic facts about the ToE, and even when something is explained to you all that happens is you keep repeating the same old nonsensical mantra.

 

[joelr]

What does that mean to you, and what does it imply?
If you are a scientist, I would also like to hear from you on this question.

So that you understand what I mean, please read this article. Thanks.

The article is just an example, to highlight the fact that scientists often think things which they later realize is not correct.

I am really asking when you hear or read that clause - the title - in relation to certain things scientists believe, and claim, what does that mean to you, and what does it imply?
If you are a scientist, I would also like to hear from you on this question.

Why is this of interest to you?

Scientists thought the earliest tools were used by Homo habilis simply because that is WHAT THE EVIDENCE DEMONSTRATED. They didn't say "we know who used the earliest tools!" They clearly understood most evidence from these eras has not been found. Now they have found some older tools so it looks like Australopithecus afarensis figured out how to make simple tools.

So wow maybe this means that it will turn out that Krishna actually was real and did speak to Arjuna? Or that Gabrielle did visit Muhammad and give correct updates on Christianity?
Maybe Zeus and Hercules were real Gods?
Probably not.
We knew there was a Hominid line and a line before that who were becoming hominids. We didn't know the intelligence or behavior patterns of creatures from millions of years ago. So now we have something that suggests there was intelligence earlier than thought. That is THE POINT of science and EXACTLY WHAT IS EXPECTED to learn more about the universe.
You seem to think this is some revelation and "gotcha" when it's what science literally does.
We thought the OT was the oldest book ever. Now we know it's not and it's not even original.

All this implies is science works. We do research, make theories, test, sometimes learn new things. Usually it's building on adding to existing knowledge. This find does exactly that. Showing that science is gradually learning more and more and adding evidence to existing theories. Finding signs of intelligence in the pre-Hominid line is excellent verification of evolution and how humans got to be as smart as we are. Gradual intelligence fits perfectly with the evolutionary model.

The article was just an example, to highlight the fact that scientists often think things which they later realize was not correct.

No, it's not an example of that at all. It's an example of instead of tools being used by hominid they were also used by hominin. So intelligence was beginning used not just by Homo genus but by more primitive species which is great for evolutionary science and shows modern intelligence was spread out. Helping even better to explain why we are very smart. It was developing over many millions of years. Now we have more evidence.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But again -- crabs remain crabs, don't they?

Again with this drivel?

How many times have I (along with MANY others) explained to you how nonsensical it is to say such a thing?
How many times must I repeat that if crabs would produce non-crabs, such an occurrence would actually DISPROVE evolution theory?


Why do you insist on being wrong all the time?
Why are you so intellectually dishonest that you willingly and intentionally repeat these PRATTs over and over and over and over and over again....? Even after they have been pointed out to you SO MANY TIMES?


What do you hope to accomplish with such behavior?
Do you think it has positive effect for your case?
Do you think you will be convincing ANYONE, or even just gain respect, by engaging in such obvious intellectual dishonesty?


I just don't get it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes, there is definitely a connection between the theory of evolution and nuclear war

Only in the sense that there really isn't.

If the Pope believed what the Bible says about creation -- what makes him or anyone think that GOD cannot stop war -- (not people) So I'm not going to go into whether or not he or you believe that Jesus taught his disciples for real to pray the Lord's prayer (or what is sometimes called the "Our Father" prayer).

No war was ever stopped though praying.
In fact, nothing was ever accomplished through praying.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When has any god ever stopped any war? Ever?

Well... Thor did kill the Ice Giants who's goal was to rule once again and to take Asgard and Midgard.

And looking around, there no longer seems to be a threat coming from Jötenheim.. There're no more frost giants invading these lands. Off course there aren't. Thor and Odin killed them all during the Wild Hunt.

So there. Checkmate!

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well... Thor did kill the Ice Giants who's goal was to rule once again and to take Asgard and Midgard.

And looking around, there no longer seems to be a threat coming from Jötenheim.. There're no more frost giants invading these lands. Off course there aren't. Thor and Odin killed them all during the Wild Hunt.

So there. Checkmate!

Oh touche! You got me!.

 

[Jose Fly]

Do you think you will be convincing ANYONE, or even just gain respect, by engaging in such obvious intellectual dishonesty?

IMO, he's not trying to convince you or anyone else....he's mostly just reassuring himself. Remember, we've established that one cannot acknowledge evolution as real and be a Jehovah's Witness. If he did, he would have to either leave the faith on his own, or face being kicked out and shunned. He would also have to believe that his own life has no lasting purpose.

That's a lot to give up....faith, friends, family, purpose in life.....just over evolution. Given that, it's obviously very important for Witnesses like YT to repeatedly reassure themselves that evolution isn't true and that therefore they won't have to face such terrible consequences.

It's quite fascinating really.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It's quite fascinating really.

Not to mention "sad"

 

[Jose Fly]

Not to mention "sad"

I dunno....I see it as fully grown adults making a conscious and informed decision to join a group that's pretty transparent about how they operate. It's not like there's a bait-and-switch going on or anything. Plus, they seem to like it.

 

[YoursTrue]

IMO, he's not trying to convince you or anyone else....he's mostly just reassuring himself. Remember, we've established that one cannot acknowledge evolution as real and be a Jehovah's Witness. If he did, he would have to either leave the faith on his own, or face being kicked out and shunned. He would also have to believe that his own life has no lasting purpose.

That's a lot to give up....faith, friends, family, purpose in life.....just over evolution. Given that, it's obviously very important for Witnesses like YT to repeatedly reassure themselves that evolution isn't true and that therefore they won't have to face such terrible consequences.

It's quite fascinating really.

The theory has no basis besides conjecture. If I mention scientists who do not go along with the theory, you'll put them down, I have drawn my own conclusions. Testtube experiments do not confirm the idea that life came about as a result of chance meeting of elements.

 

[YoursTrue]

What??? That's not even remotely logical as there's no connection between evolution and a possible nuclear war.

That's what you say. I'm saying that conscience is part of the evolutionary process, according to scientists. You may draw your own conclusions.