What would you do?

[Spiderman]

I didn't vote for Trump but my heart tells me to vote in the future for the most pro-life candidate.

I hear the spirit of slain infants crying when I pray. I'm completely convinced that roughly 50 million humans are slain by abortion every year. I know this forum is predominantly liberal, and I will be seen as a simple-minded, misogynistic, leper for my views, for that is how I once viewd pro-lifers. That is the sacrifice I'm willing to make for the slain spirits of the unborn. My work in the pro-life movement will be more than posting online. I will take action and you won't see me on this forum much.

I believe the babies are in Paradise and my concern is less for them and more about God's wrath and the hedonism, lust, secularism, sexual addiction, and immorality in our world that leads to so many abortions. My prayers are for the souls of women in these predicaments and my anger is at the men who get these women pregnant and leave them! My grievances are also at the government and culture. The women are not at fault or to be shamed, but homicide is still homicide. If you were convinced that life begins at conception, would you word the atrocious acts of baby-killing differently.

I find it heartbreaking what women must go through and I'm angry at God for their pain, desperation, sorrow, and fear, that leads to the choice. My heart is torn! If I was a female rape victim or pregnant from incest, I would have an abortion as the most merciful approach for me and the child. I would give the child a name, apologise, and beg God for Mercy for having an innocent defenseless human slain. That is what I would do if I were a woman, and I know of women who did just that.

I watched a movie called"a silent scream". I saw the baby struggling, panicking, frantic, and in agony as the instruments of abortion dismembered it's body. I am sickened, disturbed, and convicted from the holy Spirit, through much prayer and reflection, that I can't remain passive about this.

I know liberals will see me as a sick, simple-minded leper, but this is the message my heart keeps receiving when I pray, and I had to get it out. God will punish the world for sin! I don't agree with God's treatment of people, but my heart is convicted that this is true, and that I am to take a stand for life.

God bless you all and have a Merry Christmas! I would be sick in the head if I delighted in starting a thread like this... the truth is heartbreaking, but I can't shake these convictions, and I see a sick, hedonistic, decadent, materialistic, selfish, Godless, abominable culture of death heading for destruction and grievous chastisement from Almighty God!

I was a leftist but no more. Communists killed far more people than fascists. Leftist policies kill more than the right, especially when you add the 50 million souls of aborted babies every year and the souls harmed and murdered through secularism and it's errors.

What would you do if you were haunted by these convictions? I love liberals and I hope and pray we all receive enlightenment and eternity in Paradise. Peace and good-will to you all!

 

[BSM1]

But if you felt a conviction with certainty that a fetus is not a human being, would you take a stand for the woman who may not want to give birth to that fetus?

 

[crossfire]

How about directing that energy and enthusiasm towards taking care of those children who are already here? Harassing women is easy. (Even though you proclaim you are not harassing them, you still are.) Supporting children who are already in this world is difficult.

Edit to add:
Why not put your efforts into fighting human trafficking, the modern-day slavers?

 

[Spiderman]

I take my meds, go to group therapy, and share my religious convictions with professionals.

My psychotherapist says he's inspired by what I say and sees something Divine in me. I know these convictions of heart could be delusion, so I share it with professionals.

Sorry, but I have to go with my heart, gut, and instincts on this one. I respect liberals for taking a stand for what you believe and hope you understand. I once saw things from your perspective and argued with pro-lifers. It isn't pleasant being a conservative misogynistic simple-minded leper in leftist eyes, but I have burning convictions and conversion of heart when I pray 20 decades of the rosary a day and go to daily basis. I beg yours and God's pardon and mercy if I am mistaken.

Peace be with you!

 

[Spiderman]

But if you felt a conviction with certainty that a fetus is not a human being, would you take a stand for the woman who may not want to give birth to that fetus?

Yes. I did. I started a previous thread titled "abortion is beautiful" and in real life argued with pro-lifers with remarks they found extremely offensive. I have had a huge change of heart!

 

[shunyadragon]

Could not answer the front loaded question as worded.

Simply one's 'concern for life' does not address the issue. The history of Christianity has been an inconsistent mixed bag concerning 'concern for life.' I will think about this.

 

[Spiderman]

How about directing that energy and enthusiasm towards taking care of those children who are already here? Harassing women is easy. (Even though you proclaim you are not harassing them, you still are.) Supporting children who are already in this world is difficult.

Edit to add:
Why not put your efforts into fighting human trafficking, the modern-day slavers?

Would you want children listening to me?
I spent six months in a mission in the ghetto of Buffalo NY feeding, serving the poor, and caring for children. I also spent time with the Franciscan friars serving the community in new Bedford and NY.
I plan on doing so again when I get off probation and have years of sobriety. Secularism really wounded and corrupted me.

If you knew my love for liberals and women, you would know the grief it causes me to speak the painful truth. If only you knew...it is not easy!

 

[Brickjectivity]

Neither of the main parties in USA are pro life. One claims to be but has never followed through on its promises -- not in the 40 years that it has been claiming to be pro-life. That is, all of my life it has claimed to be pro-life; yet every time it is in power it does nothing to illegalize abortion and focuses on other things such as smaller government, lower corporate taxes, fewer regulations, etc. If I felt that a fetus were a human? I'd consider that a backstab.

 

[Spiderman]

Could not answer the front loaded question as worded.

Simply one's 'concern for life' does not address the issue. The history of Christianity has been an inconsistent mixed bag concerning 'concern for life.' I will think about this.

Let me interpret it. Life in this circumstance means taking a stand against the killing of unborn human beings.

 

[TripleZ]

But if you felt a conviction with certainty that a fetus is not a human being, would you take a stand for the woman who may not want to give birth to that fetus?

murder is murder, regardless of what a man or men say it is, God says, " do NOT kill "...

 

[Spiderman]

Neither of the main parties in USA are pro life. One claims to be but has never followed through on its promises -- not in the 40 years that it has been claiming to be pro-life. That is, all of my life it has claimed to be pro-life; yet every time it is in power it does nothing to illegalize abortion and focuses on other things such as smaller government, lower corporate taxes, fewer regulations, etc. If I felt that a fetus were a human? I'd consider that a backstab.

Could you explain your last sentence please?

Also, I do find that leftists do much more to fund abortiaries and promote the belief that a fetus is not human. At least the right wingers do much more to take a stand against the acts of baby-killing and call it by it's true name.

Many women would not abort their child if they had been properly informed. The women are not at fault. It is the sick culture and the lies of the media and so many politicians and others. Many of these countless women realize what happened after it is too late. Their maternal nature and instincts tell them the sorrowful truth!

You believe in God, therefore you believe the unborn infant is a child of God who deserves a chance at life, correct?

 

[columbus]

I didn't vote for Trump but my heart tells me to vote in the future for the most pro-life candidate.

I've been a hardcore Pro-Lifer for 40 years. Believe me, it's not because it makes me popular with my knee jerk liberal friends

I have found over the years that there are next to no Pro-Life politicians. Effectively none. There are plenty who try to sell themselves by talking about it, but they mostly aren't interested. And when they are, they always find more important priorities.

There are many reasons for this. One of the fundamental ones is that anti-abortion is not the same as Pro-Life. Opposing abortion, while supporting gigantic military spending, cutting services to the young or sick or poor, 2nd amendment nonsense, environmental degradation, marginalizing immigrants, cutting international humanitarian aid, and a host of other pro-death policies, doesn't make you Pro-Life. It's just anti-abortion.

Another reason is that very few anti-abortion politicians are interested in actually reducing abortion as much as grandstanding. The single best way to reduce disastrous pregnancies is comprehensive, age appropriate, sex ed starting way before irresponsible sex is an issue. Like maybe 2nd or 3rd grade, by middle school the kids need to unlearn a bunch of crap they'll pick up in the streets or internet or something. Most "anti-abortion" politicians oppose that. Another regular piece of BS is defunding Planned Parenthood. PP prevents more abortions than any other organization in the USA. And they do it the right way, by getting the information, advice, and contraceptives to people at risk of an abortion before they get pregnant.

Honestly, I've given up trying to find a Pro-Life politician and I hardly even see an actually anti-abortion politician. I have come to the conclusion that most of them want abortions to go on because they can raise so much money and get so much power by faking a Pro-Life platform to run for office.
Tom

 

[SomeRandom]

I've been a hardcore Pro-Lifer for 40 years. Believe me, it's not because it makes me popular with my knee jerk liberal friends

I have found over the years that there are next to no Pro-Life politicians. Effectively none. There are plenty who try to sell themselves by talking about it, but they mostly aren't interested. And when they are, they always find more important priorities.

There are many reasons for this. One of the fundamental ones is that anti-abortion is not the same as Pro-Life. Opposing abortion, while supporting gigantic military spending, cutting services to the young or sick or poor, 2nd amendment nonsense, environmental degradation, marginalizing immigrants, cutting international humanitarian aid, and a host of other pro-death policies, doesn't make you Pro-Life. It's just anti-abortion.

Another reason is that very few anti-abortion politicians are interested in actually reducing abortion as much as grandstanding. The single best way to reduce disastrous pregnancies is comprehensive, age appropriate, sex ed starting way before irresponsible sex is an issue. Like maybe 2nd or 3rd grade, by middle school the kids need to unlearn a bunch of crap they'll pick up in the streets or internet or something. Most "anti-abortion" politicians oppose that. Another regular piece of BS is defunding Planned Parenthood. PP prevents more abortions than any other organization in the USA. And they do it the right way, by getting the information, advice, and contraceptives to people at risk of an abortion before they get pregnant.

Honestly, I've given up trying to find a Pro-Life politician and I hardly even see an actually anti-abortion politician. I have come to the conclusion that most of them want abortions to go on because they can raise so much money and get so much power by faking a Pro-Life platform to run for office.
Tom

And this is why I think you're one of the most consistent pro lifers on here. Very little if any hypocrisy in your stance, though obviously I disagree with it.

 

[Enoch07]

What @columbus said. Minus the "2nd amendment nonsese" comment.

 

[SomeRandom]

I would ask myself what are the real consequences of "taking a stand" in such a way. It's all very well to have an opinion on such an issue and argue it passionately. But actually translating that into law is far more tricky.
Does abortion actually decrease when made illegal? No, not to my knowledge at least. Hard to keep stats for such a thing, for obvious reasons. But it's much like prohibition was back in the "roaring 20s."
And the arguments in favor of prohibition were just as "noble and holy" at least to those who pushed for it. In reality it caused nothing but misery and killed far more than it saved.
Abortion is a need and a need will always be fulfilled no matter what our personal feelings are on the matter. Whether that is a safe legal, available abortion done by a medically trained professional (ideal) or a coathanger done in a stingy alley, killing women and leaving children motherless. And therein lies the real kicker. For all the bluster on both sides, the truth of the matter is, being pro life, especially shortsightedly, in legislation kills more than it actually saves. Even if provisions are made for life of the mother or rape. (See Ireland's infamous cases.) Such a thing is simply not pragmatic.

That enters another area of ethics. Why should legislation interfere in a doctor patient relationship? And trust me, once you start putting regulations on doctors like this, you absolutely will see horrible consequences. Mark my words. (Yes I know I'm using alarmist language, but look at countries where it was illegal, even slightly.)

 

[columbus]

murder is murder, regardless of what a man or men say it is, God says, " do NOT kill "...

So why do so many Christians support pro death policies like capital punishment?
Tom

 

[BSM1]

murder is murder, regardless of what a man or men say it is, God says, " do NOT kill "...

Actually I think you'll find the translation should be basically "do NOT commit murder". (There was quite a bit of God sanctioned killing in the Old Testament.) Also, murder is a legal term. It means to take a person's life in a manner that goes against the written law. Abortion is legal, therefore it cannot be murder. Let me ask you a question: would you be okay if a fourteen year old impregnated rape victim wanted to abort the unwanted fetus planted in her?

 

[Spiderman]

I would ask myself what are the real consequences of "taking a stand" in such a way. It's all very well to have an opinion on such an issue and argue it passionately. But actually translating that into law is far more tricky.
Does abortion actually decrease when made illegal? No, not to my knowledge at least. Hard to keep stats for such a thing, for obvious reasons. But it's much like prohibition was back in the "roaring 20s."
And the arguments in favor of prohibition were just as "noble and holy" at least to those who pushed for it. In reality it caused nothing but misery and killed far more than it saved.
Abortion is a need and a need will always be fulfilled no matter what our personal feelings are on the matter. Whether that is a safe legal, available abortion done by a medically trained professional (ideal) or a coathanger done in a stingy alley, killing women and leaving children motherless. And therein lies the real kicker. For all the bluster on both sides, the truth of the matter is, being pro life, especially shortsightedly, in legislation kills more than it actually saves. Even if provisions are made for life of the mother or rape. (See Ireland's infamous cases.) Such a thing is simply not pragmatic.

That enters another area of ethics. Why should legislation interfere in a doctor patient relationship? And trust me, once you start putting regulations on doctors like this, you absolutely will see horrible consequences. Mark my words. (Yes I know I'm using alarmist language, but look at countries where it was illegal, even slightly.)

How about not making abortion illegal but speaking the truth about it and taking a stand to defend the unborn?
If you believed that God created a human being with an immortal soul at conception, and God was offended that an enormous amount of these innocent infants were destroyed in the womb, would you at least passionately speak up against this abominable offense?

 

[SomeRandom]

How about not making abortion illegal but speaking the truth about it and taking a stand to defend the unborn?
If you believed that God created a human being with an immortal soul at conception, and God was offended that an enormous amount of these innocent infants were destroyed in the womb, would you at least passionately speak up against this abominable offense?

No. I don't presume to speak on behalf of any deity. I always saw that as sheer hubris. Like a God needs my help to condemn anything. Said God can send an avatar or do something about it themselves.
Nor can I presume to live another person's life. Besides, I don't think such "innocent infants" as you put it, actually feel any pain during an abortion. Merely have reflexes and since I don't think they will end up in the pits of hell afterwards, it's not really a priority. I prefer to focus on something actually tangible I can help solve. Like I dunno, donating food to starving kids or something.

 

[Spiderman]

How about directing that energy and enthusiasm towards taking care of those children who are already here? Harassing women is easy. (Even though you proclaim you are not harassing them, you still are.) Supporting children who are already in this world is difficult.

Edit to add:
Why not put your efforts into fighting human trafficking, the modern-day slavers?

Human trafficking is thoroughly disgusting to me, and I cannot fathom what the victims go through! It is far worse than death. If I can find a way to successfully fight it I will!

Human trafficking to me is worse than abortion! However, I feel in God's eyes the 50 million humans terminated legally is a worse abomination because of the sheer quantity and how prevalent it is. Me and God disagree there. I'm texting this post and literally every time I push a letter on this phone, an abortion happens somewhere, a human is legally slain and a mother is wounded!

You think I like talking about this on a predominantly liberal forum, that I've been a member of for years, and made friends with liberals I admire very much who supported me in my dark moments and trying times??

You think I like looking like a simple-minded misogynistic fascist that people lose respect for? Not even slightly! It leaves me feeling rather Ill to be honest!

But I don't see human trafficking as something the Government and media support, so I will be a superstitious fool and humiliate myself for doing what my heart tells me is God's will and my responsibility as a Catholic.

We are to be hot or cold. If we are lukewarm God will vomit us out. God is demanding that I not be lukewarm over the slaying of more than a trillion humans made in his image and likeness!

I hope you understand.