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Whatever happened to virginity and celibacy?

Pah

Uber all member
In the Council of Trent, 1545-1563, SESSION THE TWENTY-FOURTH,

Being the eighth under the Sovereign Pontiff, Pius IV., celebrated on the eleventh day of November, MDLXIII​
.


CANON X.-If any one saith, that the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy, and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony; let him be anathema.


Was this an invocation of Paul's "if ya gotta do it, get marrried"?

Was "go forth and multiply" to become "old hat"?

What kind of "family values" are we to take from this canon?
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Vatican II essentially updates the churches outlook on the necessity for celibacy as preferential.

Marriage is an entity to be treasured and loved.

Finally, let the spouses themselves, made to the image of the living God and enjoying the authentic dignity of persons, be joined to one another[16] in equal affection, harmony of mind and the work of mutual sanctification. Thus, following Christ who is the principle of life,[17] by the sacrifices and joys of their vocation and through their faithful love, married people can become witnesses of the mystery of love which the Lord revealed to the world by His dying and His rising up to life again.[18]
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v4.html

Trent was in the 16th century, I think the church realises that not only is celibacy not going to happen for the majority that if it did humanity wouldn`t last long.
:)

 

Pah

Uber all member
linwood said:
Vatican II essentially updates the churches outlook on the necessity for celibacy as preferential.

Marriage is an entity to be treasured and loved.

Finally, let the spouses themselves, made to the image of the living God and enjoying the authentic dignity of persons, be joined to one another[16] in equal affection, harmony of mind and the work of mutual sanctification. Thus, following Christ who is the principle of life,[17] by the sacrifices and joys of their vocation and through their faithful love, married people can become witnesses of the mystery of love which the Lord revealed to the world by His dying and His rising up to life again.[18]
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v4.html

Trent was in the 16th century, I think the church realises that not only is celibacy not going to happen for the majority that if it did humanity wouldn`t last long.
:)

So that would be a change in tradition - wouldn't it? (even though it is a canon)
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Context, context, context....

CANON I.-If any one saith, that matrimony is not truly and properly one of the seven sacraments of the evangelic law, (a sacrament) instituted by Christ the Lord; but that it has been invented by men in the Church; and that it does not confer grace; let him be anathema.

CANON II.-If any one saith, that it is lawful for Christians to have several wives at the same time, and that this is not prohibited by any divine law; let him be anathema.

CANON III.-If any one saith, that those degrees only of consanguinity and affinity, which are set down in Leviticus, can hinder matrimony from being contracted, and dissolve it when contracted; and that the Church cannot dispense in some of those degrees, or establish that others may hinder and dissolve it ; let him be anathema.

CANON IV.-If any one saith, that the Church could not establish impediments dissolving marriage; or that she has erred in establishing them; let him be anathema.

CANON V.-If any one saith, that on account of heresy, or irksome cohabitation, or the affected absence of one of the parties, the bond of matrimony may be dissolved; let him be anathema.

CANON VI.-If any one saith, that matrimony contracted, but not consummated, is not dissolved by the solemn profession of religion by one of the married parties; let him be anathema.

CANON VlI.-If any one saith, that the Church has erred, in that she hath taught, and doth teach, in accordance with the evangelical and apostolical doctrine, that the bond of matrimony cannot be dissolved on account of the adultery of one of the married parties; and that both, or even the innocent one who gave not occasion to the adultery, cannot contract another marriage, during the life-time of the other; and, that he is guilty of adultery, who, having put away the adulteress, shall take another wife, as also she, who, having put away the adulterer, shall take another husband; let him be anathema.

CANON VIII.-If any one saith, that the Church errs, in that she declares that, for many causes, a separation may take place between husband and wife, in regard of bed, or in regard of cohabitation, for a determinate or for an indeterminate period; let him be anathema.

CANON IX.-If any one saith, that clerics constituted in sacred orders, or Regulars, who have solemnly professed chastity, are able to contract marriage, and that being contracted it is valid, notwithstanding the ecclesiastical law, or vow; and that the contrary is no thing else than to condemn marriage; and, that all who do not feel that they have the gift of chastity, even though they have made a vow thereof, may contract marriage; let him be anathema: seeing that God refuses not that gift to those who ask for it rightly, neither does He suffer us to be tempted above that which we are able.

CANON X.-If any one saith, that the marriage state is to be placed above the state of virginity, or of celibacy, and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity, or in celibacy, than to be united in matrimony; let him be anathema.

CANON XI.-If any one saith, that the prohibition of the solemnization of marriages at certain times of the year, is a tyrannical superstition, derived from the superstition of the heathen; or, condemn the benedictions and other ceremonies which the Church makes use of therein; let him be anathema.

CANON XII.-If any one saith, that matrimonial causes do not belong to ecclesiastical judges; let him be anathema.

http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct24.html

Nice try pah......:tsk:
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
To be clear, pah.... your error comes in not understanding Catholic history/teaching.... but trying nonetheless, to point out errors in a faith you know little about.

Virginity and celibacy are viewed in such high regard and hold a place of honor above matrimony for a reason...... two actually : Christ and Mary.

Poor, chaste, and obedient.... the ideal..... but, if you read the entire Council, you'll (hopefully) begin to understand that it was pro-marriage...... and still is...... but at the same time, placing chastity and virginity in a place of honor..... and rightly so.

Scott
 

emoaref

New Member
Marriage is usually easier than virginity or cellabacy, that is probably why it would be placed below. Also you must look at what was happenning at that time to judge where their position was coming from.
 

Pah

Uber all member
SOGFPP said:
To be clear, pah.... your error comes in not understanding Catholic history/teaching.... but trying nonetheless, to point out errors in a faith you know little about.

Virginity and celibacy are viewed in such high regard and hold a place of honor above matrimony for a reason...... two actually : Christ and Mary.

Poor, chaste, and obedient.... the ideal..... but, if you read the entire Council, you'll (hopefully) begin to understand that it was pro-marriage...... and still is...... but at the same time, placing chastity and virginity in a place of honor..... and rightly so.

Scott
I don't know Scott, that "Christ amd Mary" answer the questions I asked especially the first two - a paraphrase of God's word.

I also don't know that which side (Protestant or Catholic) is being critized but one or the other seems to be to wayward. It is not enough to state a position - the why's and wherefores play a big role.
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
pah said:
I don't know Scott, that "Christ amd Mary" answer the questions I asked especially the first two - a paraphrase of God's word.
Again.... I don't have the time or patience to correct all of your errors..... you don't understand the Bible, you don't read the Bible in context.... and I don't think you want to learn.... just cherry pick what seems to be a contradiction or error.....
I also don't know that which side (Protestant or Catholic) is being critized but one or the other seems to be to wayward. It is not enough to state a position - the why's and wherefores play a big role.
Neither is "wayward".... you just are trying to comment on theology, and doing a poor job of making much sense.

The why's and the wherefores play a big role.... yep.... that's why I would hesitate to question Catholic doctrine or Tradition until you educate yourself on the why's and wherefores..... just a thought.

Peace,
Scott
 
Did you hear about the time, way back, when the monks were working on the Bible translation? It was hard work and had been going on for a long time. Heaps of manuscripts to examine and read and understand. Heaps of scrolls to translate - the dust flew, fingers got numb transcribing, eyes got tired peering at faint words.
Then a snag!! A problem!! There was a word which just couldn't be quite be clarified. Not quite right.
The Abbot was called. The problem was put to him. He too peered at the manuscript. He discussed it at great length with the Chief Scribe. There was prayer. There was more discussion. Deep thought - then a decision! A course of action was decided.
The Abbot called over a young novice.
'Go, my son,' he commanded, 'to the Archives and do not return until this matter is solved.'
The Novice went and again seached. It took a long long time. In the Archives were piles of the most ancient of texts, in scrolls and even on tablets. All were covered in dust and need a lot of time to sort through.
It was months, some say even a year, before the Novice found what he was after and rushed exitedly back to the Monastry .
'Father! Father!' He shouted with the enthusiasm of youth.
'Hush, my son! What is it?' The Abbott was old and tired. He had forgotten.
'The word! The word, Father!'
The light dawned on the Abbott. His brow cleared.
'Ah, yes.' he said, 'I remember! Well, my son?'
'The Word!' the Novice couldn't restrain his glee. 'It's "celebrate", Father! Not "celibate!"'
'Oh, my son! It's too late! It's gone to the printers!'
 
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