What's a "Purple Penguin"?The gender inclusive name for boys & girls in Nebraska public schools

[Shadow Wolf]

Thats an excellant point. Not for any type of support for the bully in any regard, but the manner by which adversary is received and dealt with personally. It only serves to make a person stronger and more resilient.

Or it sets you up to for a life of loneliness and very few friends, poor social skills, and developing negative coping skills that further deepen isolation and further erode social skills. Yes it can make you stronger and more resilient, to the point of rejecting others because past experience suggests they can't be trusted anyways.

 

[xkatz]

I can just imagine kids coming home from school. "But mom... I really am penguin-kin. This I who I really am!"

As a lice-kin I approve of their bravery. Not everyone was accepting of me when I tried sucking the blood and laying eggs in people's hair follicles but it's just who I am dang-it!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nobody is arguing against acknowledging that there are basically two biological genders and most people fall into one genital category or the other. (And if they're born between the two, they get a gender arbitrarily assigned at birth by surgery.)

Intersex people shouldn't be forced to undergo surgery on their genitals without consent.

They are arguing for not describing gender to children in a way that alienates gender non-conforming students and sets them up as targets for bullying by inadvertently painting them as abnormal.

One solution would be to stop othering them in the first place as "gender non-conforming". Such categories uphold enforced gender roles. A girl who likes play with cars is still just a girl and a boy who likes to play with Barbies is still just a boy. Why must we place them into separate categories from other boys and girls in the first place?

You're wrong - a girl who wants to take shop in our culture isn't seen as a girl.

Er, I recognize that is a problem and am against that. Have you been paying attention at all to what I'm saying and have been saying all throughout this thread?!

She's seen as a "tomboy". IMO, it's better to describe her as a biological female, with a female gender identity and a heterosexual inclination, who also has a gender expression that our culture overwhelmingly recognizes as masculine.

No, it's better to describe her a girl who has individual interests like all humans do. Why are you and many others in this thread failing to see that?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I have never watched South Park. I know, shoot me now.

Eric decides that since the stall in the boys bathroom he normally uses is being used, he goes to the girls bathroom to take a dump and then tells everyone he is transgendered and no one can tell him he can't use the girl's bathroom. And then it turns out that Lorde is one of the boy's fathers, who himself started using the women's bathroom to take a dump, only he started recording the Hunger Games soundtrack while he was in there. I imagine that plenty on the transcommunity are foaming at the mouth over it, but it's the same sort of over-blown, super-exaggerated satire that got the show alot of recognition back in '96 for the episode Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride, which exposed the audience to what sort of crap the homosexual community has to put up with from society at large.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

As a lice-kin I approve of their bravery. Not everyone was excepting of me when I tried sucking the blood and laying eggs in people's hair follicles but it's just who I am dang-it!

You think that's hard... Try being mole-kin. My parents just did not understand why I would strip down naked and start digging holes in the front yard. Gosh parents are so dumb! When will they realize this is who I am?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For those who mock the "it's who I am" stance, how many of you, as a child, tried cutting off your genitals because they really do not belong on you? How many of you are able to feel anything out of life that is more than just living because you are not free to be yourself. How many of you have lost sleep, starved yourself, and have not been able to focus on anything because your are stuck in an emotional limbo because because you are supposed to be someone you aren't, and do things and be things you don't want to be, rather than living a life that allows you do do things you want and be what you want.
If I could keep living as a male, I would. It's cheaper, it's easier, no hassle, no ridicule from others, but being male, to me, is to just waste with no ambition or drive to do or be anything because I wouldn't be me.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

For those who mock the "it's who I am" stance, how many of you, as a child, tried cutting off your genitals because they really do not belong on you? How many of you are able to feel anything out of life that is more than just living because you are not free to be yourself. How many of you have lost sleep, starved yourself, and have not been able to focus on anything because your are stuck in an emotional limbo because because you are supposed to be someone you aren't, and do things and be things you don't want to be, rather than living a life that allows you do do things you want and be what you want.
If I could keep living as a male, I would. It's cheaper, it's easier, no hassle, no ridicule from others, but being male, to me, is to just waste with no ambition or drive to do or be anything because I wouldn't be me.

Transgender is a completely different thing than other-kin. You can change from male to female and vice versa. You cannot become an animal.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

For those who mock the "it's who I am" stance, how many of you, as a child, tried cutting off your genitals because they really do not belong on you? How many of you are able to feel anything out of life that is more than just living because you are not free to be yourself. How many of you have lost sleep, starved yourself, and have not been able to focus on anything because your are stuck in an emotional limbo because because you are supposed to be someone you aren't, and do things and be things you don't want to be, rather than living a life that allows you do do things you want and be what you want.
If I could keep living as a male, I would. It's cheaper, it's easier, no hassle, no ridicule from others, but being male, to me, is to just waste with no ambition or drive to do or be anything because I wouldn't be me.

I don't think they're trying to mock trans people. If anything, people requesting to be called by "fae" or "bun" pronouns and calling themselves "non-hormone/non-op DFAB demigirls" are the ones mocking trans people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Transgender is a completely different thing than other-kin.

You think that's hard... Try being mole-kin. My parents just did not understand why I would strip down naked and start digging holes in the front yard. Gosh parents are so dumb! When will they realize this is who I am?

Or try my situation; your sister finds that her little (I don't think I was older than 10 at the time) brother has looked up stuff about transgender and sex-changes on the internet, tries to make a scene out of it, and you plead that it wasn't you, just to have the issue brought up during a family argument. You could also be a teenaged boy and have your mom wondering why she found women's clothing and underwear in with your bedroom. You could be ridiculed by your parents as a child, because you wanted some toys that aren't "appropriate" for your sex. You could also try having a parent who belittles, mocks, and degrades someone like you with words that sting you with a burning venom.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think they're trying to mock trans people. If anything, people requesting to be called by "fae" or "bun" pronouns and calling themselves "non-hormone/non-op DFAB demigirls" are the ones mocking trans people.

I have to confess ignorance: I have no idea what a "DFAB demigirl" is, or at least what the term describes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think they're trying to mock trans people. If anything, people requesting to be called by "fae" or "bun" pronouns and calling themselves "non-hormone/non-op DFAB demigirls" are the ones mocking trans people.

Maybe. I've been in a really weird mood lately, almost like a pending depressive implosion followed by an anxious explosion, or an anxious explosion followed by a depressive implosion, and even I'm questioning if I'm interpreting things correctly and second-guessing myself on some stuff.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I have to confess ignorance: I have no idea what a "DFAB demigirl" is, or at least what the term describes.

I wouldn't expect you to unless you spend more than two minutes looking at gender crap on the moron trap that is Tumblr.

DFAB = Designated Female At Birth
Demigirl = "I feel a little like a girl (whatever that means), but not 100%"

There are literally dozens and dozens of other acronyms and identities that people have made up in the last few years. Most of them are redundant and some are even impossible.

It's mostly used by bored white pre-teens in the suburbs who have nothing else to do with their time than making up ridiculous identities and pronoun sets for themselves. But if you criticize them for it, they'll call you "truscum" and "binary fascist".

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I don't think they're trying to mock trans people. If anything, people requesting to be called by "fae" or "bun" pronouns and calling themselves "non-hormone/non-op DFAB demigirls" are the ones mocking trans people.

Precisely. I have nothing against trans people. If anything, all of these made up Tumblr pronouns xe/ zhe/ hir/ etc. are an insult to actual trans people.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's not grouping them as boys and girls that is outdated and absurd, it's the idea that that is how it's supposed to be done that is stupid. Even if the OP article wasn't about gender identity, what's wrong with mixing things up? Why not mix the kids up and make it clear they are equals and alike in many ways, rather than keeping them as two separate groups that are only defined by the same two categories over and over? Actually, why not have them form into three or four groups to show life is hardly ever a clear cut black-and-white, either-or process?

I'm gonna put up my hand right now and say I have not read the majority of posts here, just a quick skim (15 - 20 posts, tops). So if I make less sense than usual, feel free to disregard.

When I was teaching, we'd rarely split kids into gender based groups over the course of a 'normal' school day.
Commonly, we'd split them based on proficiency in whatever we were teaching at the time.

So, no, there wasn't a 'turtle' group of slow kids, and an 'eagles' group of stars. If I was teaching division, each kid would get personalized problems on the topic at hand, and I'd work with a group of kids of a similar level on a particular aspect. Might be the kids who needed extension, might be those who needed support, might be the middle ones, since there was the risk of them not being attended to as much.

Groups were fluid based on proficiency.

When going on school camp, different story. Dorm rooms were gender divided, for much the same reason toilets were gender divided.
So from a practical point of view, groups were commonly gender divided as well.

I had a bad habit of referring to the kids as 'guys'. I actually connected really well with the girls, since they were a little more mature than the boys overall. But yeah...guys...

Children is okay, but way too formal for my teaching style. And I wouldn't go with an arbitrary name imposed by the school. Again, just not my style.

So, if the school wanted to have gender neutral names for children, I'd go with kids. Or I'd let the kids pick something they wanted to be referred to as, which would probably end up being 'Superstars' or something. Or I'd just call 'em my horrible beasts.

Tangental side story:
I had a deal with one of the Prep grades when I was teaching Grade 3's. We wandered into their class at a preset time, but my class was convinced we were invading them. We planned it all out. In we marched, no-one saying a word, then formed a conga line and danced around their class. One lap, then out.

The funniest part was when payback came. Not only did the prep's come and conga-line-bomb our classroom a couple of days later, but they did so dressed up in monster masks they'd made themselves in art.

Wish I'd taped it, it was hilarious.

Anyway, approximate point to this is that kids like belonging to groups, and for practical reasons we need to divide kids into groups. But very rarely does this need to include gender as a determinant.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Maybe. I've been in a really weird mood lately, almost like a pending depressive implosion followed by an anxious explosion, or an anxious explosion followed by a depressive implosion, and even I'm questioning if I'm interpreting things correctly and second-guessing myself on some stuff.

It's cool. We all have our bad days. :hug:

Precisely. I have nothing against trans people. If anything, all of these made up Tumblr pronouns xe/ zhe/ hir/ etc. are an insult to actual trans people.

Exactly. They even get mad at trans people who have the nerve to say that you need to be dysphoric in order be trans. "Noooo! Don't try to erase me! Anyone can be trans!"

Oh, and then they get mad when they're females dressing like girly-girls and people actually don't see them as male and call them male pronouns. As if everyone is just magically supposed to know.

 

[dust1n]

I'm not sure if you've read the pamphlet (three pages) but I take it as basically ongoing education for teachers regarding gender inclusiveness and not much more. This "Purple Penguin" name thing is blown way out of proportion and is simply used as an example of how to gather a group of kids together using a non gendered name.

The pamphlet is no big deal, imo and this thread and the crazy arguments by many are why I dislike debating.

Of course I read it. And like so many a-thing, its not even worth thinking too much about.

Kids derive most of their identity and values first through peers, then through parents, and then school.

I really am not concerned with kids learning that sexual orientation is non-binary. I don't expect many to really even understand such topics until after college anyways.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wouldn't expect you to unless you spend more than two minutes looking at gender crap on the moron trap that is Tumblr.

DFAB = Designated Female At Birth
Demigirl = "I feel a little like a girl (whatever that means), but not 100%"

There are literally dozens and dozens of other acronyms and identities that people have made up in the last few years. Most of them are redundant and some are even impossible.

It's mostly used by bored white pre-teens in the suburbs who have nothing else to do with their time than making up ridiculous identities and pronoun sets for themselves. But if you criticize them for it, they'll call you "truscum" and "binary fascist".

Ok, I've heard something similar to the DFAB before, I think what I saw was FAB (Female At Birth) and MAD (Male at Delivery), and for some reason I seem to recall a FUD, Female Upon Delivery, though that one may be more of my own annoyance at the online transcommunity than anything. Demigirl I have never heard of, though it sounds like some trendy Madonna/Britney Spears thing.

I'm gonna put up my hand right now and say I have not read the majority of posts here, just a quick skim (15 - 20 posts, tops). So if I make less sense than usual, feel free to disregard.

When I was teaching, we'd rarely split kids into gender based groups over the course of a 'normal' school day.
Commonly, we'd split them based on proficiency in whatever we were teaching at the time.
...
Anyway, approximate point to this is that kids like belonging to groups, and for practical reasons we need to divide kids into groups. But very rarely does this need to include gender as a determinant.

That is interesting. Here kids can be expected to be segregated into two groups, boys and girls, several times throughout the day. To us (specifically one of my classes), it was not normal and highly unusual when they did mix boys and girls, to the point it should be questioned why we were making such a fuss over being mixed like that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ok, I've heard something similar to the DFAB before, I think what I saw was FAB (Female At Birth) and MAD (Male at Delivery), and for some reason I seem to recall a FUD, Female Upon Delivery, though that one may be more of my own annoyance at the online transcommunity than anything. Demigirl I have never heard of, though it sounds like some trendy Madonna/Britney Spears thing.

FUD, lol. There's also CAFAB/CAMAB (Coercively Assigned...), pangender, omnigender, AG, neutrois, agender, degender, bigender, demiboy/demiguy, enby (phonetic of non-binary), using butch and femme as a gender identity with all the sub-categories therein, gender fluid, genderqueer, Two-Spirit (can't go wrong with cultural appropriation, I guess), trigender, third gender, transmasculine, transfeminine, girlfag, boydyke, intergender, ETC.!

And that's mostly just what I can remember from off the top of my head. It's bs like that that is the reason why I don't use the stupid asterisk after "trans". Of course, the same thing is happening to sexual orientation labels with people calling themselves "biromantic", "aromantic", "homoromantic", etc.

I used to be more "radical" when it came to this crap, but I'm jaded and fed up with it all. The longer I lived as a man, the more I became disillusioned with it all. This disillusionment with the "trans community" and gender discourse has only gotten worse since getting on testosterone. I'm really sick of it and it's pushing me towards having a more conservative view of it all. Honestly, I think people need to just keep it simple. Gender and sexual orientation isn't as complicated as we think it is or make it out to be and we definitely need to stop churning out 5424545151515152 new labels per year. I'm sick of queer theory, deconstructionism, nit-picking and dissection of "oppression" as if it's a science and invades every part of our lives 24/7 and all the other ivory tower academic crap that they think is important but doesn't help anything.

 

[Alceste]

Intersex people shouldn't be forced to undergo surgery on their genitals without consent.

I completely agree. Nevertheless, our gender binary culture assigns genders to intersex children via surgery based on the whims of their parents. The surgery makes no difference to the child's gender identity. They'll "feel" biologically male, female or androgynous regardless of the junk they have in the trunk.

One solution would be to stop othering them in the first place as "gender non-conforming". Such categories uphold enforced gender roles. A girl who likes play with cars is still just a girl and a boy who likes to play with Barbies is still just a boy. Why must we place them into separate categories from other boys and girls in the first place?

I agree with this also. The pamphlet doesn't advise that anyone view LGBTQ children as non-conforming. I'm using the adjective "gender non-conforming" as a tool to express why it is valuable to create a neutral learning environment for all children, regardless of their biological sex, gender identity, gender expression or sexual orientation.

I agree that "most" people are cisgender, according to a binary view of "male" and "female". But I still want those who are not cisgender to feel valuable, respected and included in society.

The question for me is whether there is any BENEFIT to segregating students on the basis of their particular allotment of genitals I don't think so.



Er, I recognize that is a problem and am against that. Have you been paying attention at all to what I'm saying and have been saying all throughout this thread?!



No, it's better to describe her a girl who has individual interests like all humans do. Why are you and many others in this thread failing to see that?[/quote]

 

[YmirGF]

I'd just like to give a standing ovation to Saint Frankenstein for his contributions in this thread.

:clap:clap:clap:clap

Of course I read it. And like so many a-thing, its not even worth thinking too much about.

Kids derive most of their identity and values first through peers, then through parents, and then school.

I really am not concerned with kids learning that sexual orientation is non-binary. I don't expect many to really even understand such topics until after college anyways.

I know it's a particularly weird day when I am agreeing with dust1n, lol, the last line especially.