What's in a Claim? Did Jesus say New Testament was God's word?

[Villager]

All of the gospels were written long after the life of the supposed Jesus, by unknown writers.

How long after?

 

[Pegg]

All of the gospels were written long after the life of the supposed Jesus, by unknown writers.

Im curious as to what you base this idea on.

The internal evidence points to much of the NT being written before 70CE.

For example, in the book of Acts the death of James is recorded at the hands of Herrod Agrippa 1
Acts 12:1 About that particular time Herod the king applied his hands to mistreating some of those of the congregation. 2 He did away with James the brother of John by the sword
Herod died in 44CE. James obviously died before 44CE and therefore his letter to the congregation in jerusalem was written by him before then.

Then there is the prophecies of the destruction of Jerusalem of 70CE which are mentioned in the gospels. Yet when Luke wrote the book of Acts, he does not mention that momentus event which is evidence that he wrote the book of Acts before 70CE. And the book of Acts also opens with the dialogue that the writing was Lukes 2nd piece of history that he wrote...hence the gospel of Luke was written earlier as well.


So im just intrigued as to where the ideas that the NT was written hundreds of years after the events come from.

 

[Mister Emu]

I wouldn't agree with that.
For instance old testament is partialy copy of stories originaly created by Sumerans.

My apologies... in the context of the thread I meant the NT.

The NT is a product of the Church, not the other way around.

New testament was created by Romans (Piso theory) to unite, pacify and ridicule Jews and slaves.

Only after all that Chatolic church was created based in Rome because of the above reasons.

The Church existed in Rome before most of the NT was written, much less widely circulated.

 

[AdamEve]

The Church existed in Rome before most of the NT was written, much less widely circulated.

Are you saying that there was a pope in Rome before NT was created?
Sources?
Or by Church you ment something else?
Why did you slap your fase at Piso theory ?

 

[Shermana]

The Church of Rome in 60 A.D. was much different than the one of 100+ A.D., the one in 60 A.D. had to pay the Temple Tax and were counted as Jews.

 

[outhouse]

How long after?

the earliest is said to be 20-30 years after his death.

 

[Villager]

the earliest is said to be 20-30 years after his death

Within living memory, then, and therefore subject to contemporary scrutiny and correction.

 

[outhouse]

Within living memory, then, and therefore subject to contemporary scrutiny and correction.

your only talking about a few pieces that were written that early.

most were later, much later.

we know most of what was written was from oral tradition, stories told from a highly illiterate group of people that finally found there way to a scribe or scribes or group of scribes that would have edited in at will their thought and style

 

[Villager]

your only talking about a few pieces that were written that early.

Another poster wrote:

'All of the gospels were written long after the life of the supposed Jesus, by unknown writers.'

Your view is different, that the earliest gospel is said to be written 20-30 years after his death.

So which gospels are said to be early, and which were written much later?

 

[outhouse]

So which gospels are said to be early, and which were written much later?

tough question that I will only generalize.

the synoptic gospels were first and from 30 years after death until 60 years after death. give or take 10 years. You have M and Q and later, L and M who copied from M and Q, later followed by J .

most of the NT is older less pauls letters and acts a rendition of L [sort of]

 

[Villager]

the synoptic gospels were first and from 30 years after death until 60 years after death. give or take 10 years.

So within living memory, then, and therefore subject to contemporary scrutiny and correction.

most of the NT is older less pauls letters and acts

That makes most of the NT, indeed all of its essential historical and theological content, written within living memory of Jesus.

 

[outhouse]

written within living memory of Jesus.

by unknown authors who never knew or met the yeshua charactor, who may or may not have even lived in the same community.

Now your just talking about the scripture that descibes a movement that was so minor not a single person wrote about the man while he was alive.

Might add that by age alone its not likely that john was alive at the time of J's completion.

and therefore subject to contemporary scrutiny and correction

what ever that means?

 

[Villager]

by unknown authors who never knew or met the yeshua charactor

How is that known?

Might add that by age alone its not likely that john was alive at the time of J's completion.

How is that known?

who may or may not have even lived in the same community.

So they may have lived in the same community.

 

[outhouse]

How is that known?

the scriptures were not named, the authors as we know know were attributed by the church a very long time after the yeshua charactors death.

How is that known?

john was said to be illiterate

J was written over a long period of time by atleast 3 different authors or groups of authors

by age john would have to have lived to 80-90 which is not likely.

So they may have lived in the same community.

some yes and some no, definatly not. by writing style alone we can place un a general vacinity where the gospels were written.




If you ever glanced at any scholarship dealing with any part of the NT you would find the answers your looking for

 

[Villager]

the scriptures were not named

You mean self-attributed, presumably. Most of them were.

the authors as we know know were attributed by the church

We don't know anything that scholarship does not know. Nobody has any real clue who the church is, or was. Though we often know who it wasn't.

There is no real evidence that the gospel writers did not know Jesus personally, so it is inappropriate to state that they did not. It does not seem to be a very important factor, anyway.

john was said to be illiterate

By whom?

J was written over a long period of time

How is this known?

by atleast 3 different authors or groups of authors

How is this known?

by age john would have to have lived to 80-90 which is not likely.

It is perfectly possible. Many reached a ripe old age then, though a lower proportion than today.

by writing style alone we can place un a general vacinity where the gospels were written.

Which scholar informed you of this?

 

[outhouse]

You mean self-attributed, presumably. Most of them were.

false

We don't know anything that scholarship does not know

please make sense

Nobody has any real clue who the church is, or was

false

There is no real evidence that the gospel writers did not know Jesus personally

false

so it is inappropriate to state that they did not.

false

It does not seem to be a very important factor, anyway.

it can be in certain contents of historicity

By whom?

historians and scholars

How is this known?

scholarships

How is this known?

scholarships

a lower proportion than today.

and thus its not likely but possible and thats why I stated as such

Which scholar informed you of this?

all of them

 

[outhouse]

example

Gospel of John - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Gospel's authorship is anonymous.

according to most modern scholars, John was not the author of any of these books

Raymond E. Brown did pioneering work to trace the development of the tradition from which the gospel arose.[4] The discourses seem to be concerned with the actual issues of the church-and-synagogue debate at the time when the Gospel was written[5] c. AD 90. It is notable that, in the gospel, the community still appears to define itself primarily against Judaism, rather than as part of a wider Christian church


Today the majority of scholars do not believe that John or any other eyewitness wrote it


The Gospel of John developed over a period of time in various stages,[24] summarised by Raymond E. Brown as follows:[25]

1. An initial version based on personal experience of Jesus;
2. A structured literary creation by the evangelist which draws upon additional sources;
3. The final harmony that presently exists in the New Testament canon, around 85-90 AD.

The gospel was apparently written near the end of the 1st century.[38][39] Bart Ehrman argues that there are differences in the composition of the Greek within the Gospel, such as breaks and inconsistencies in sequence, repetitions in the discourse, as well as passages that he believes clearly do not belong to their context, and believes that these suggest redaction

 

[Shermana]

"John" was written by Cerinthus, Iraneus went out of his way to make it out like John hated Cerinthus for a reason. His later critics weren't very consistent in what they considered his beliefs to be. Papias claimed that the Revelation was written by him as well.

 

[outhouse]

John" was written by Cerinthus

sources LOL

3 different authors or groups of authors is not what your posting

 

[Villager]

Wikipedia

[splutter]......