-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What's the Big Deal with Israel?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes, without a doubt as we have always had their back, and we have never trusted the PRoC. We will have their back even for our own protection because of our commitments to other countries in the region besides them, including some with military bases, such as Japan, S. Korea, Guam (an American protectorate), etc. Maybe you think we should desert them all as well?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
We should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time, and if we were to take your advice, we'd have to walk away from our military alliances the world over that includes many countries that we give aid to. Is that what you want? Do you think this will help even us in the long run?
I think there is a legitimate argument in terms of how much is too much? I think there's a legitimate argument from those who do believe in non-violence. I think there's even a legitimate argument in terms of what our priorities should be in terms of humanitarian versus military aid, so we're really not as far apart as it may seem we are. I do have a tendency to be misleading at times because I tend to play devil's advocate a lot, especially in this area. Let me paint you a different picture.
There's quite a few of my fellow Jews who have little to do with me because I tend to ruffle their feathers a bit-- maybe too much. I've been very outspoken in terms of being appalled by so many of my fellow Jews who seem to be all too gung-ho on not at least trying to give peace a chance first with Iran in terms of the negotiated agreement. I'm appalled that roughly 70% of the Israeli population wants Israel to attack Iran. I cannot stand the myopic view that so many orthodox Jews have in regards to "God" whereas they use their religious position as a way to build walls rather than bridges, even refusing to accept other branches of Judaism as being legit. I feel much more at home with members of other faiths that are not so narrow-minded than I do with all too many of my fellow Jews. Needless to say, this post is not going to please them, but so be it.
You'll notice my signature at the bottom of my posts, and it's there for a reason. I lean in the direction of non-violence, but I do believe a country has the right to protect itself. I do believe that much of our foreign aid is screwed up and misdirected. I do believe this country has all too often acted out of selfishness and overt violence on way too many occasions.
And then I have another hang-up-- I'm not a very patriotic person, neither for the U.S. or for Israel. Nice countries, but there are a lot of nice countries. Frankly, I feel more "at home" in Canada than I do here in the States or over in Israel, largely because the mind-set tends to be different there.
Well, usually I'm not this frank with where I'm coming from, and I'm sure I just ruffled some more feathers, but so be it.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
To a large extent, yes. We actually pay much money for our bases there in order to protect them and other allies.Does the US gives money aid to Japan and S. Korea ?
Glad you brought this up.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
To a large extent, yes. We actually pay much money for our bases there in order to protect them and other allies.
Glad you brought this up.
Do you think the people in this forum are idiots to believe your nonsense ?
Japan agrees to five-year pact to pay for U.S. defense.
YOKOSUKA NAVAL BASE, Japan — Japan and the U.S. have agreed on a five-year plan that will maintain Japan’s current spending to support U.S. military forces in the country, but reduce the number of Japanese workers on base, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced Tuesday.
The Japanese government will spend 188.1 billion yen, or $2.02 billion, annually through 2016 on Japanese employee salaries, utilities and base maintenance. Japan has been spending roughly the same annual amount under a three-year deal that will expire in March. The government spent a high of $3.17 billion in 1999.
http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific...ive-year-pact-to-pay-for-u-s-defense-1.128712
I am pretty good at ruffling feathers and accustomed to the fall out. But what I am reading in your posts is more like schizophrenia. Why do you think I am advocating walking away from all the USA allies when I say it want to stop sending billions of dollars to Israel?
Do you really make a distinction between sending food aid to hungry people and high tech weapons to Israel? If you do, I'm not seeing where.
Tom
I believe AIPAC is work for Israel not USA people .
that's why if find it BIG paradox that USA had thousand or millions of homeless and Israel don't had 1 single homeless man or 1 homeless family !
rosends
Well-Known Member
I will teach you a Hebrew word: הלואי ("hal'vai")
Would that that were so, if only that was the truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Israel
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I think if you reread my post #145, I covered my general feelings on this, including what you commented on in your last two sentences, which is entirely incorrect. This part of my post should have given you that impression: "I do believe that much of our foreign aid is screwed up and misdirected. I do believe this country has all too often acted out of selfishness and overt violence on way too many occasions." Maybe I should have spelled that out more thoroughly, but another part of what I posted I think should have been clearer to you: " I think there's even a legitimate argument in terms of what our priorities should be in terms of humanitarian versus military aid, so we're really not as far apart as it may seem we are." Again, maybe that's too vague, so I will take some responsibility for that as I thought I was being clearer than the way you apparently took it.
BTW, I have no history of mental illness, so the "schizophrenia" charge is just an ad hominem attack. It seems that you are reading what you expected to read versus actually reading what I actually wrote in #145. But, again. maybe I wasn't clear enough.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Even though I normally abhor Fox "News", I'm in a hurry so I grabbed this article as I cite the first two paragraphs:
WASHINGTON – The United States is footing more of the bill for overseas bases in Germany, Japan and South Korea even as the military reduces the number of American troops in Europe and strategically repositions forces in Asia, a congressional report says.
The exhaustive, yearlong investigation by the Senate Armed Services Committee focused on costs and burden-sharing as the United States spends more than $10 billion a year to back up the U.S. military presence overseas, with 70 percent of the amount expended in the three nations. The figure does not include military personnel costs... -- http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-overseas-bases-despite-cuts-to-military.html
ah ok , thanks for correct my info , so your homeles had tents , i just wonder who is inside these tents ?
but I don't think it's reach to phenomen ?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
The US is taking these bases for themselves and the hosting countries are even sharing
in the expenses, these bases are managed and operated by the US, it isn't aids to these
countries as the case with Israel which used it for its own.
rosends
Well-Known Member
they don't all have tents
http://www.timesofisrael.com/for-israeli-politicians-poverty-is-someone-elses-problem/
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
that's new
it's shock not hurt , a Jew homeless inside Israel is unbelievebale information for me lol
that link shows one man (not identified) lay in the street (photo in back) , and poverity of Arabs town lol
rosends
Well-Known Member
You made a statement that there are no homeless in Israel.
I showed that you were wrong.
You claimed that the homeless in Israel have tents.
I showed you that you were wrong.
My goal is not a general one. I am simply correcting your claims, one at a time. You should be thankful for the opportunity to learn so you can refine your posts and be more accurate in the future
And why would you laugh at the poverty in Arab towns?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Huge difference between 800 and 500,000
Over 800 homeless people living in Israel
More than 500,000 people homeless in the United States: report
rosends
Well-Known Member
actually, from 0 to 1 is an infinite increase. 800 to 500,000 is only 625% (I think -- I'm not a math guy).
There was some anti-Jewish sentiment, but that wasn't the entire reason. Some people like to use that to argue that the creation of Israel was a miracle by-the-way, but there was what you might call pro-Jesus-Christ-return sentiment also pushing for the re-creation of a state. I think many weren't aware of that, but it was quite strong both in USA and Britain. Whether people consciously pushed for its creation I cannot say, but there was a great deal of wishing.
There had been for a long time (over a century) a movement among protestants that believed Israel would need to reform into a state before Jesus arrival. The books containing information about this are not widely published and generally are considered arcane reading, but it was the habit of some protestants to try and predict when Israel would become a country. I have read some of their predictions by poring over some old religious books attempting to prove things about Jesus Christ. The creation of the state arose eventually from the protestants and the Balfour document of 1917.
Some would argue that it was the plight of Jews which moved the public hand or the desire of Jews to return to Jerusalem, but the Jews had-had many plights over the centuries that never moved anyone to create a country. They were harassed and moved about, but they were ignored. The crisis of WWI followed by the even worse crisis of WWII was not that unique a tragedy in Jewish history. It was simply better documented, more blatantly evil with larger numbers of dead. The numbers and publicity enabled those who desired Israel's creation to have a political lever to pull on. Thus all the unwanted Jews were wanted for the purpose of shipping them to Israel.