what's the difference between a cult and a religion?

[Midnight Pete]

The definition I use is that a cult is any religion that still has a living founder.

The founder of $cientology, L. Ron Hubbard, is dead. And $cientology is undeniably a cult.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Most cults are American
Most cults are Weird
Most cults are very interested in money or the end of the world
or both.

 

[Tarheeler]

So political groups can be cults?

They can be.

 

[waitasec]

Money hasn't fully cured Moonies being seen as a cult, but as you point out, time will fix that.

those silly moonies, somehow i think if they were a litle more subtle and their doctrine was more ambiguous it would be accepted by now

 

[Midnight Pete]

those silly moonies, somehow i think if they were a litle more subtle and their doctrine was more ambiguous it would be accepted by now

$cientology is still trying to purchase its own legitimacy as a religion.

 

[CarlinKnew]

does anyone know?
is it time and acceptance?

The one and only difference is the number of followers.

 

[Aquitaine]

the one and only difference is the number of followers.

^^^^ qft.

 

[Midnight Pete]

The one and only difference is the number of followers.

No, that's not quite correct. Cult practises are very specific.

(source: American Family Foundation)

1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
6. The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
11. The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

 

[Noaidi]

So what would be the view of christians towards the ideas of their faith being a cult in its early days - a rebellious, charismatic leader with views outwith the mainstream and banding together a small group of dedicated followers. Would that qualify as a cult by today's standards?

(not picking on christianity here - just using the example I'm most familiar with. I'm sure many other religions had the same beginnings).

Edit: Just read some of the above criteria. Do they all apply to cults, e.g giving money to the organisation?
Further edit: just found out that the American Family Foundation who supplied the above criteria is a christian organisation. Just saying....

 

[Quiddity]

Depends who you ask. A good way to tell (IMO) is check to see how much they argue. If there is zero arguing, run.

 

[Midnight Pete]

So what would be the view of christians towards the ideas of their faith being a cult in its early days - a rebellious, charismatic leader with views outwith the mainstream and banding together a small group of dedicated followers. Would that qualify as a cult by today's standards?

(not picking on christianity here - just using the example I'm most familiar with. I'm sure many other religions had the same beginnings).

Edit: Just read some of the above criteria. Do they all apply to cults, e.g giving money to the organisation?
Further edit: just found out that the American Family Foundation who supplied the above criteria is a christian organisation. Just saying....

The early Christians were very persecuted and had to operate underground, like a cult. Like present-day Christians in Asian and Middle-Eastern countries, they risked everything by doing what they did and being who they were. They became known perjoratively as "Christians" by the citizens of the Roman and other pagan societies of the ancient world. Their secret symbol was the Ichthys or "Jesus-Fish."

 

[Noaidi]

The early Christians were very persecuted and had to operate underground, like a cult.

So would you say they were a cult?

 

[waitasec]

$cientology is still trying to purchase its own legitimacy as a religion.

give it time, how long has scientology been around?
not long at all...

 

[Midnight Pete]

The early Christians were very persecuted and had to operate underground, like a cult.

So would you say they were a cult?

They were a fledgling underground sect of Judaism, very controversial. They couldn't worship openly in the same way that 21st century Christians can't worship openly in China.

 

[waitasec]

The early Christians were very persecuted and had to operate underground, like a cult.

They were a fledgling underground sect of Judaism, very controversial. They couldn't worship openly in the same way that 21st century Christians can't worship openly in China.

where they afraid of the jews or the romans?

 

[Midnight Pete]

where they afraid of the jews or the romans?

Both, I think. The Romans were the secular authority and the Jews were the religious authority in 1st century Judea.

 

[tomato1236]

Both, I think. The Romans were the secular authority and the Jews were the religious authority in 1st century Judea.

I heard some guys in my office having this cliche conversation last week. I've heard it happen many times and it always goes the same way:

man 1: Your church is a cult.
man 2: it is? No, I don't think so.
man 1: actually, it is. All religions are cults.
Man 2: nuh uh.
man 1: look it up in the dictionary. See here it is.

1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

3. the object of such devotion.

4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

Man 2: Oh. Well when I think of a cult I think of some off-the wall religion usually led by someone who is in it for the money, or to control other people.

Man 1--thinks to himself, "I am so smart."

 

[Midnight Pete]

I heard some guys in my office having this cliche conversation last week. I've heard it happen many times and it always goes the same way:

man 1: Your church is a cult.
man 2: it is? No, I don't think so.
man 1: actually, it is. All religions are cults.
Man 2: nuh uh.
man 1: look it up in the dictionary. See here it is.

1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

3. the object of such devotion.

4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

Man 2: Oh. Well when I think of a cult I think of some off-the wall religion usually led by someone who is in it for the money, or to control other people.

Man 1--thinks to himself, "I am so smart."

Cult-members probably don't think of themselves as cult-members. The Branch Davidians probably had a much loftier self-perception.

 

[McBell]

does anyone know?
is it time and acceptance?

Spelling.

 

[jmvizanko]

A relevant quote I always liked:

"The delusions of one person is insanity, delusions by a few a cult, and by many a religion."

I think it about sums it up. Especially if you are going with the psychological definition of delusion: "an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary"