What's the justification for believing in the soul?

[Father]

The answer is I don't know. But you're exactly right that it isn't evidence of a soul nor is it evidence of anything else.

it's simply a thought experiment. however, if a replica of a person's consciousness is not that person that it brings into question a soul

 

[serp777]

To me, the soul is what makes us think and reason and learn.
You obviously think and reason, because you asked a very interesting question.
My cat cannot do that.
No other animal life in existence can do that.
There are millions of animal species. No others can do that.
Only humans.
Scientists have shown us that millions of animal species have inhabited the earth for hundreds of millions of years.
Yet, all those millions of life forms, existing for all those millions of years, none of them ever invented a wheel, let alone a car, or a microscope, or a telescope, or anything. None. Never.
Yet, look what humans have done in such a brief period of time.
Humans learn, no other animal can. That’s the soul.

To me, the soul is what makes us think and reason and learn.
You obviously think and reason, because you asked a very interesting question.
My cat cannot do that.
No other animal life in existence can do that.

Let me summarize your point--Because you don't understand how reason and learning can be done in a materialistic universe, therefore the soul and the supernatural exists. You know what that's called? Its the argument from ignorance.

Scientists have shown us that millions of animal species have inhabited the earth for hundreds of millions of years.
Yet, all those millions of life forms, existing for all those millions of years, none of them ever invented a wheel, let alone a car, or a microscope, or a telescope, or anything. None. Never.

How do you know that? There might have been super intelligent dinosaurs at some point. Or there might be intelligent aliens.

Humans learn, no other animal can. That’s the soul.

Ever heard of google? You know it uses advanced learning algorithms to determine what it should advertise to you right? Or how about IBM watson, which is capable of learning how to play jeopardy. Do those algorithms and computers have a soul?

 

[serp777]

it's simply a thought experiment. however, if a replica of a person's consciousness is not that person that it brings into question a soul

No it doesn't. Bringing into question a soul here is the argument from ignorance. Well we don't have anything other explanation so lets just assume a soul is possible or real.

 

[Father]

Humans learn, no other animal can. That’s the soul.

Monkey's Crows. hell Coyotes in certain cities learned how traffic lights work as to not get hit by a car and know when to cross. many animals can learn. also AI learn so not just animals

 

[serp777]

Well, how do you explain reincarnation without something like a soul, huh???

No, but seriously, soul itself comes from matter/physical universe as far as I can tell.

To me the soul is the summation of yourself, starting with the physical all the way to the spiritual. I got a theory of sorts about this I actually took up to writing about a bit ago:

Hastily made intro to my “Theory of Aspects”

Not a perfect explanation, but maybe explains a little bit where I'm coming from.

TL;DR from matter, instincts grow for life, then it creates more layers of complexity, in humans the next one is base emotions, then our thinking minds then our spiritual side. "Soul" in this system is the total sum of the distinct entity. (I plan to explain in a future, fuller article, that explains what parts survive and how and how that works into my beliefs about reincarnation).

Sorry to mostly drop a link like that. No point in me putting in huge effort to basically rewrite the darn thing for just one post.

Essentially my argument is that a soul is inevitable as a series of rising complexity to a point where streams of consciousness can find ways to survive death and possibly reincarnate. I think this is an eventuality and inevitable so long as complex life is around.

Ok, but the problem here is that the soul is indistinguishable from the brain and usual carries a lot of supernatural baggage. If you're just going to say the soul is the summation of us, then why not just keep calling it the brain.

Essentially my argument is that a soul is inevitable as a series of rising complexity to a point where streams of consciousness can find ways to survive death and possibly reincarnate.

That just sounds like advanced technology. I just don't understand why the label of the soul is appropriate here considering you're using it in this figurative kind of way.

 

[Father]

No it doesn't. Bringing into question a soul here is the argument from ignorance. Well we don't have anything other explanation so lets just assume a soul is possible or real.

my argument of a "soul" is not some magical essence I am going off of a unique metaphysical consciousness caused by the brain but unique to each person.
if an exact replica of a human consciousness that functions identically to the original is not the same person but intern a different person than it argues the existence of a "soul" not a magical out of body one. more so a specific consciousness that is 100% unique and not copyable. the essence of "I" vs "All" self-awareness and a unique one that solely belongs to you.

 

[Grandliseur]

I might as well be blind, deaf, and mute 'cause I still don't have a link to your out of body NDE evidence.

What exactly are we supposed to be denying here?

Didn't I provide the data that you could search for on Youtube - doctors verifying what is going on, etc.
I even provided part of what happened as verified by the doctors and one incident.

I am not in the mood to babysit atheists today, sorry.

 

[Grandliseur]

Could it have been made up? Yes. Could it have been exaggerated? Yes. Would it prove the supernatural or the existence of souls? No. Is this scientifically documented and peer reviewed? Nope. Should we now also accept anecdotes from people who have been abducted by aliens? No.



What falsification have you provided? And its possible by anyone with half a brain.




Where is the empirical data showing the reliability of near death experiences and determining some fact they couldn't otherwise know?


Then cite the peer reviewed double blind studies, not just generically refer to some videos containing worthless anecdotes.


This assertion is a combination of a red herring and an ad hominem.

Do your own research. I provided enough for you to find things.
Atheists and their disbelieving what is provided for by doctors who operate on a woman who for all practical purposes was 'dead' during the operation.

I am not babysitting atheists today. Didn't get paid last time.

 

[serp777]

my argument of a "soul" is not some magical essence I am going off of a unique metaphysical consciousness caused by the brain but unique to each person.
if an exact replica of a human consciousness that functions identically to the original is not the same person but intern a different person than it argues the existence of a "soul" not a magical out of body one. more so a specific consciousness that is 100% unique and not copyable. the essence of "I" vs "All" self-awareness and a unique one that solely belongs to you.

Well first of all I don't necessarily accept that its unique to each person; I wouldn't be able to prove that. It may be the case somehow that a quantum clone is in fact same consciousness and that single original consciousness experiences both but without memory of the other. Or it might be the case that after every instant of time we are a new consciousness with all the memories of the previous generation given the illusion that we are a continuous entity. This would sufficiently solve this problem because a perfect clone would be a new person anyways since the cloning process would take an instant. After each time slice that is, you're a new person. Now, I don't know if that's the case, but I think taking any particular position on things we don't know if we can know is invalid.

 

[serp777]

Do your own research. I provided enough for you to find things.
Atheists and their disbelieving what is provided for by doctors who operate on a woman who for all practical purposes was 'dead' during the operation.

I am not babysitting atheists today. Didn't get paid last time.

Yeah I reject your extremely weak evidence and even weaker arguments as per my statements above. Its not baby sitting when I'm being the adult here.

 

[serp777]

Didn't I provide the data that you could search for on Youtube - doctors verifying what is going on, etc.
I even provided part of what happened as verified by the doctors and one incident.

I am not in the mood to babysit atheists today, sorry.

Cool story, nobody really cares about what you're in the mood for. Feel free to leave at any time.

 

[Father]

Atheists and their disbelieving what is provided for by doctors who operate on a woman who for all practical purposes was 'dead' during the operation.

you do realize the medical term of "dead" can simply mean the heart has stopped. there is no borderline of death. its a gray area one can be pulled back from if the circumstances right.

 

[Kemosloby]

 

[sun rise]

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...e-we-e28098skepticse28099-really-just-cynics/

The Science of Reincarnation: UVA psychiatrist Jim Tucker investigates children’s claims of past lives

And for tons of data Division of Perceptual Studies – University of Virginia School of Medicine

 

[Aupmanyav]

you do realize the medical term of "dead" can simply mean the heart has stopped. there is no borderline of death. its a gray area one can be pulled back from if the circumstances right.

There is a time limit to that unless the Son of God is involved in the process.

p.s. - Your signature image is quite irritating. Why not some other image?

 

[Father]

There is a time limit to that unless the Son of God i involved in the process.

p.s. - Your signature image is quite irritating. Why not some other image?

time limit yes but no one knows it. I've seen someone pronounced dead and kicking out of a body bag from the morg the next morning.

 

[Grandliseur]

you do realize the medical term of "dead" can simply mean the heart has stopped. there is no borderline of death. its a gray area one can be pulled back from if the circumstances right.

Yes, but the video defines what the doctors did and thought of that incident. They explain to you exactly in medical terms what and why they considered her 'dead'.

The video was interesting; even if you don't believe, it gives pause for thought. I don't know what to believe except I accept what happened as described.

 

[YmirGF]

Yesterday, I endured some of your club's irrational claims and meanness. So, start living in the real world, wake up and open your eyes to the facts of the world, to the thing that there are evidence for.

Frankly, today, I am taking no more shiit and idiocy from atheist. The fact that when we encounter new phenomena that this is unknown should not surprise you one bit. That there may be things in our universe which clearly is not materialistic only, means that at times things that do exist cannot be explained. We can try, but just because we cannot explain - does not mean that the event, that reality is untrue.

So, get real, in the real world.

You are babbling this twaddle to someone who has had literally hundreds of out-of-body adventures? Seriously?

 

[Father]

Yes, but the video defines what the doctors did and thought of that incident. They explain to you exactly in medical terms what and why they considered her 'dead'.

The video was interesting; even if you don't believe, it gives pause for thought. I don't know what to believe except I accept what happened as described.

granted. but there is always a logical reason even if we don't know it. the brain is a complex system and the human body very resilient

 

[Grandliseur]

You are babbling this twaddle to someone who has had literally hundreds of out-of-body adventures? Seriously?

How can you be a 'strong atheist' and say you have had "hundreds of out-of-body adventures". Doesn't that contradict the materialistic universe dogma?
I have never had any, fortunately.