Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
May I have more than one word?
"A lot of crap happens to you, but more or less God's got your back."
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What's the word?
- Thread starter Tumah
- Start date
"A lot of crap happens to you, but more or less God's got your back."
rosends
Well-Known Member
To whom? Rashi speaks of a similar situation where many words are recited in a single utterance but it held no meaning to the people.
roger1440
I do stuff
I have read in a few places that the Torah is the "304,805 letter name of God". As of yet I haven't been able to find the original source. About 20 years ago I had mentioned it to the Pastor during a Bible study. He wasn't interested in discussing it. I must have read it in a book at one time. The Internet didn't exist back then.
This site mentions it. Esoteric Hebrew Names of God
Also, one school of Jewish thought believes the Torah always existed. Creation which came after the Torah bares witness to the Torah and/or makes the Torah known. I think this is the direction the first few lines of the Gospel of John is pointing too. The author of John's Gospel just may be one of the first kabbalists.
Is this thread for real?
The Logos is an ancient Greek philosophical concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos_(Christianity)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09328a.htm
http://inters.org/jesus-christ-logos
The Logos is an ancient Greek philosophical concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos_(Christianity)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09328a.htm
http://inters.org/jesus-christ-logos
james2ko
Well-Known Member
The purpose was to identify The Logos as God's first-born spokesman/chief architect/holy spirit--the pre-incarnate Jesus.
In Genesis 1, I believe the Father was doing the speaking while His "word", spirit, and chief-architect--the pre incarnate Christ-- was doing the actual legwork.
The phrase "word of the LORD or God"can be metaphorical. But it has also been manifested as an entity:
1 Samuel 3:21 The LORD continued to appear at Shiloh, and there he revealed himself to Samuel through his word.
Zec 1:7 On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to Zechariah the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet:
Zec 1:9 Then I said, "My lord, what are these?" So the angel who talked with me said to me, "I will show you what they are."
In Samuel, the LORD revealed Himself to Samuel in Shiloh through His spokesman--the word. In Zechariah, the word of the LORD who came to Zechariah is clearly an angel.Zec 1:7 On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to Zechariah the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet:
Zec 1:9 Then I said, "My lord, what are these?" So the angel who talked with me said to me, "I will show you what they are."
Shabbat Shalom..my brother..
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lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
John 1:14 says the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus was God made flesh so the word was Jesus before he was born with a human body.
In thread space no one can hear you scream.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Come on! The angel is the one who delivered the message. The angel isn't a word, its the one who says the words on behalf of G-d. He delivered the words of G-d to Zechariah and so the word ended up coming to him. Why is that not obvious to you? No manifestation of words here. Otherwise the angel wouldn't need to say anything as it would be already be.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
Your conclusion is not obvious to me due to my belief Christ showed John that He was the malek/word, delivering God's message to Samuel and Zechariah , who later became flesh (Luke 24:25-27; John 1:1,14).
Additionally, we see "the word" came to Abram in a vision (Gen 15:1). The Hebrew term for vision [machazeh-H4236] is used in scripture when people actually "see" something or someone. Hence "the word", in this context, is an actual entity.
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Tumah,
I am not a "Christian". That is a sect created by the guy who called himself, a Pharisee of Pharisees, Paul, and is a sect based on hypocrisy and double mindedness (Romans 7:25), which is packaged under the identity of the gospel of grace. "Christianity" was instituted by the Roman Emperor Constantine, and legitimized by the Emperor Theodosius. Abraham and Isaac were not "Jews". Abraham was simply a righteous man who kept God's laws without your Tanach (Genesis 26:5). Problems continue among the house of Judah/Jews, by means of the "lying scribes" (Jer 8:8).
New American Standard Bible Gen 27:5
because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."
New American Standard Bible Jer 8:8
"How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.
Tumah,
Dt 4:13 is with respect to "His covenant", the "ten commandments". Dt 4:14 reads, "And the Lord commandment me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments".
Tumah
Veteran Member
That's just a play on colloquialisms. You're a Christian in that you follow a man whom named Jesus whom you believe to be the christ with some degree of divinity or another.
That's debatable. And certainly if they were not Jews Abraham and his progeny weren't gentiles as they were circumcised, which is not a commandment that gentiles have.
I've heard this complaint often by the Muslims. But as I pointed out to them, you only find this accusation once by Jeremiah and never mentioned again by later prophets (as opposed to other issues that were brought up multiple times). As well that those scribes received their punishment. So their is no justification for pointing to this verse as a permanent accusation against Jews.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Yes, those are the other Laws. They would have been there a long time had G-d spelled it all out for them at Mt Sinai. Moses taught it to them little by little over time as we see from the progression of Laws.
Tumah,
Abraham means father of nations. HIs slaves, were also circumcised, and they were from the nations/Gentile.
I do not follow a "man" "named Jesus". The name "Jesus" didn't exist until the 16th century. On the other hand, the "son of man" Yeshua, which means YHWH saves, is not God, nor does he ever claim to be such.
As for the lying scribes, their writings persist to this day. One example would be the writings of the false prophet Paul, who claimed to be a Pharisee of Pharisees. In your case, that would be pointed to the Talmud, As for later prophets, other than Jeremiah, Hosea 5 & 6 points out that "I will be like a young lion to the house of Judah. I even I, will tear to pieces and go away. ...I will go away to My place. Until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face.....He will revive us after 2 days (2000 years)....that we may live before him.....they have transgressed the covenant....O Judah, there is a harvest appointed for you, when I restore the fortunes of My people". "The princes of Judah have become like those who move a boundary. On them I will pour out My wrath like water". Apparently, the Lord is not too happy with Judah or Ephraim, and you ignoring Jeremiah probably doesn't help your case. Your "two days" is coming to and end, and "the shattering of the power of the holy people" apparently came to and end in 1948 (Daniel 12:7), and the time of the time, times and half of time is coming to an end. What you have to look forward to is the "capture" of "Jerusalem" (Zech 14:2), and then things may become more apparent, and "the Lord will be king over all the earth", which would include the Gentiles, who will also keep the feast of booths (Zech 14:18).
Tumah
Veteran Member
Abraham doesn't mean "father of nations." The words used in the verse is "AB HaMON GoYIM" = father [of] many nations. ABRaHaM. If anything it means "father of many" and the word "nations" is not present in his name. Also notice the extra /R/ that doesn't belong to any of the three words, nor is it part of a grammatical change.
Which would make his slaves Jewish from then on out, wouldn't it?
That's just a play on words. The name Jesus is just a transliteration of the Greek, itself a transliteration of the Aramaic Yeshua. Yeshua doesn't mean "YHWH saves" as its missing the "YHO" prefix that Joshua has. It just means "he will save".
Christianity is the the faith of those that follow Jesus or Yeshua or whatever other names you have for him as the christ. Christ-ianity. Whether or not you fall into the classic sects of Christianity, your faith in a man who may have been from Nazareth - called Yeshua in Aramaic and Jesus in Anglicized Greek- as being the christ demonstrates that you are in fact a Christian.
Really? That's your proof that there continued to be lying scribes? Because your religion doesn't believe in the Talmud therefore the Talmud must be a continuation of the sin of the lying scribes? Are you aware that this is a debate site and not a fantasy site? What kind of retort is that? I pointed out that there are numerous sins hashed and rehashed by all the prophets almost from the get go, but the sin of the lying scribes is only mentioned once alongside a specific punishment for them. If you don't intend to bring a substantial disproof to my claim, why are you here?
I don't see anywhere in the verses you've quoted about lying scribes. I did notice that you somehow skipped over 5:7 where the sin the passage is discussing is described:
"Against G-d they rebelled, because strange children they bore..." I also see a general spirit of harlotry mentioned, which generally refers to going after false gods. I don't see anything there about lying scribes.
"He will revive us after 2 days" is the translation of a false scribe.
The accurate translation is "He will enliven us from two days. On the third day He will stand us up and we will live before Him."
The two days obviously referring to the first two Temples and the third day referring to the Third eternal Temple.
The two days ended long ago. Its the third day we're waiting for. You don't know anything about Daniel. And of course Zecharia doesn't say that the gentiles will "keep" the Festival of Booths, but that they will "bring sacrifices" on the festival of booths. There's no problem with non-Jews bringing sacrifices at any time, even in the Temple. You can even do so today from the comfort of your own home. I even encourage this as a positive way of serving G-d. Just don't mention Yeshua!
Augustus
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You might be interested in this, there's a fair bit of discussion here:
11. Doctrine of the Logos in Philo's Writings
The pivotal and the most developed doctrine in Philo's writings on which hinges his entire philosophical system, is his doctrine of the Logos. By developing this doctrine he fused Greek philosophical concepts with Hebrew religious thought and provided the foundation for Christianity, first in the development of the Christian Pauline myth and speculations of John, later in the Hellenistic Christian Logos and Gnostic doctrines of the second century. All other doctrines of Philo hinge on his interpretation of divine existence and action. The term Logos was widely used in the Greco-Roman culture and in Judaism. Through most schools of Greek philosophy, this term was used to designate a rational, intelligent and thus vivifying principle of the universe. This principle was deduced from an understanding of the universe as a living reality and by comparing it to a living creature. Ancient people did not have the dynamic concept of "function," therefore, every phenomenon had to have an underlying factor, agent, or principle responsible for its occurrence. In the Septuagint version of the Old Testament the term logos (Hebrew davar) was used frequently to describe God's utterances (Gen. 1:3, 6,9; 3:9,11; Ps. 32:9), God's action (Zech. 5:1-4; Ps. 106:20; Ps. 147:15), and messages of prophets by means of which God communicated his will to his people (Jer. 1:4-19, 2:1-7; Ezek. 1:3; Amos 3:1). Logos is used here only as a figure of speech designating God's activity or action. In the so-called Jewish wisdom literature we find the concept of Wisdom (hokhmah and sophia) which could be to some degree interpreted as a separate personification or individualization (hypostatization), but it is contrasted often with human stupidity. In the Hebrew culture it was a part of the metaphorical and poetic language describing divine wisdom as God's attribute and it clearly refers to a human characteristic in the context of human earthly existence. The Greek, metaphysical concept of the Logos is in sharp contrast to the concept of a personal God described in anthropomorphic terms typical of Hebrew thought. Philo made a synthesis of the two systems and attempted to explain Hebrew thought in terms of Greek philosophy by introducing the Stoic concept of the Logos into Judaism. In the process the Logos became transformed from a metaphysical entity into an extension of a divine and transcendental anthropomorphic being and mediator between God and men. Philo offered various descriptions of the Logos.
[Continued here]
Tumah
Veteran Member
This is pretty much what the Wiki article said about it. Thanks.