BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Are any of them based on the idea that suffering can be good in and of itself, or are all of them based on promises that the suffering will come as a package deal with something else that will be good enough to make up for the negative of the suffering?
Great question! Suffering = "bad to me" so, no.
But I'd ask what good can come for others without suffering, which is a part of exercise, working out, learning, building, creating, pioneering...