whats your beef with brexit?

[Altfish]

After the surrender bill I can't see anything other than no deal,I am ashamed of our politicians who have forgotten they are civil servants.

The remain ellement has used every trick to stop brexit when it could have been so straightforward,I put the blame for this mess squarely on there shoulders.

The issue is that the Brexiteers over promised, believed their own hyperbole, ignored the criticism by Remainers; then once they won they had no feasible plan, and now they are (mainly) blaming the people who didn't want to leave in the first place.
If you wrote a novel based on this premise, no one would believe it, you'd never get a publisher.
The population of the UK is c67m. Yet because 17m voted leave it is "The Will of The People". A lot less would have voted for No Deal.

 

[England my lionheart]

There are no traitors - the language is both idiotic and dangerous.

The EU were never going to agree to anything like what was promised in the referendum and threatening a no-deal is just stupid because it will hurt us far more than the EU.



Not quite sure why you brought up this but, if they were to win a majority on that manifesto promise, then it would have far more democratic mandate than no-deal - which is something that has never been voted on at all.

Again I disagree,they have betrayed the British people,it was promised to abide by the vote to leave and not on the circumstances.

I brought the lib Dems because that's how far they will go but they're no threat,they like labour are are impotent.

 

[Altfish]

Again I disagree,they have betrayed the British people,it was promised to abide by the vote to leave and not on the circumstances.

I brought the lib Dems because that's how far they will go but they're no threat,they like labour are are impotent.

I'm sorry that's not true.
In an election there is a winner and losers. The losers always ensure that the winner is keeping their promises and delivering their manifesto.
The opposition in a referendum has the same duty (shame about Labour) to question and pressure the winners to deliver what was sold.
What was sold is NOT being delivered, so the Remainers are justified in scrutinising and strongly opposing the current situation.

 

[England my lionheart]

The issue is that the Brexiteers over promised, believed their own hyperbole, ignored the criticism by Remainers; then once they won they had no feasible plan, and now they are (mainly) blaming the people who didn't want to leave in the first place.
If you wrote a novel based on this premise, no one would believe it, you'd never get a publisher.
The population of the UK is c67m. Yet because 17m voted leave it is "The Will of The People". A lot less would have voted for No Deal.

How does that matter,only 40% turn out for an election but the result stands.

We would have been out ages ago but have been refused a referendum for years because they knew we wanted out,they were right.

People who voted leave have been incapable of making, such a complex decision,didn't know the facts and all the rest of the bull****,it's all doom and gloom if we leave but nobody can say what would happen if we stay because nobody knows where the EU is going.

 

[England my lionheart]

I'm sorry that's not true.
In an election there is a winner and losers. The losers always ensure that the winner is keeping their promises and delivering their manifesto.
The opposition in a referendum has the same duty (shame about Labour) to question and pressure the winners to deliver what was sold.
What was sold is NOT being delivered, so the Remainers are justified in scrutinising and strongly opposing the current situation.

The remainers in government just want to stop brexit,deal or not.

 

[Altfish]

The remainers in government just want to stop brexit,deal or not.

Not sure, I personally would have accepted the £350m a week for the NHS and the Norway plus deal or whatever the great deals on offer were.
We are now being sold No Deal - sorry must use the new terminology "Clean Break" - I am far from happy with that and will oppose it.

 

[Altfish]

How does that matter,only 40% turn out for an election but the result stands.

We would have been out ages ago but have been refused a referendum for years because they knew we wanted out,they were right.

People who voted leave have been incapable of making, such a complex decision,didn't know the facts and all the rest of the bull****,it's all doom and gloom if we leave but nobody can say what would happen if we stay because nobody knows where the EU is going.

So, it is ok for Leavers to oppose being in Europe - like they did for 40-years - but it is not ok for Remainers to oppose leaving.

 

[Altfish]

The remainers in government just want to stop brexit,deal or not.

And when we were active members of the EU the likes of the ERG just wanted to leave - I'm sorry, I don't see the difference.

 

[England my lionheart]

So, it is ok for Leavers to oppose being in Europe - like they did for 40-years - but it is not ok for Remainers to oppose leaving.

Opposing is fair game but blocking isn't.

 

[Altfish]

Opposing is fair game but blocking isn't.

Blocking is part of opposing;and certainly if they are delivering a No Deal, then it is justified to oppose it because it was never promised or even hinted at.

 

[England my lionheart]

Blocking is part of opposing;and certainly if they are delivering a No Deal, then it is justified to oppose it because it was never promised or even hinted at.

Again government has a duty to respect the referendum vote,where we are now is a direct consequence of remainers in the houses of parliament.

 

[ratiocinator]

Again government has a duty to respect the referendum vote...

But we didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey.

Leaving without a deal ... would not honour that commitment.​

-- Michael Gove (source)​

 

[England my lionheart]

But we didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey.

Leaving without a deal ... would not honour that commitment.​

-- Michael Gove (source)​

A deal would be good but not a surrender which Mays deal is.

 

[ratiocinator]

A deal would be good but not a surrender which Mays deal is.

JFC - there is no surrender, there are no enemies.

The EU is going to look after its interests, as it should. There is no way we could have got all the benefits and none of the commitments. Also, the border in NI can only be left open if at least NI stays closely aligned with the EU. There never was a way round these "problems" - which is one reason why the leave campaign was full of lies.

 

[Notanumber]

A Clean Break Brexit will only hurt anyone if the EU throws a hissy fit. They would be stupid to do so because of our trade deficit.

If the U.K. were still a democracy, the quislings would get their comeuppance.

 

[Notanumber]

I'm sorry that's not true.
In an election there is a winner and losers. The losers always ensure that the winner is keeping their promises and delivering their manifesto.
The opposition in a referendum has the same duty (shame about Labour) to question and pressure the winners to deliver what was sold.
What was sold is NOT being delivered, so the Remainers are justified in scrutinising and strongly opposing the current situation.

There used to be a principle of losers consent in Britain before it became heavily influenced by the corrupt EU.

 

[Notanumber]

So, it is ok for Leavers to oppose being in Europe - like they did for 40-years - but it is not ok for Remainers to oppose leaving.

The Leavers never turned into quislings.

 

[ratiocinator]

A Clean Break Brexit will only hurt anyone if the EU throws a hissy fit.

Oh, don't be so silly. If we choose to leave without a deal, then we will still have to make a deal and we will be in a weakened position. You can't blame the EU for looking after its own interests - if we end up disadvantaged, it will be because of the idiots who decided to leave with no deal. This will be compounded if we refuse to pay what we have already agreed that we owe.

If the U.K. were still a democracy, the quislings would get their comeuppance.

Oh do stop with the idiotic language. There are no quislings, the EU is not an enemy, let alone an occupying one. This is a dispute about a trading relationship FFS - this isn't a war, and using language like you (and Boris) are doing is just making the whole thing even more divisive (which seems to be what Boris wants).

You are using the language of war about something that you can't even give one, down-to-earth, practical reason why you want. Doesn't that even give you pause for thought?

 

[Altfish]

Again government has a duty to respect the referendum vote,where we are now is a direct consequence of remainers in the houses of parliament.

Yes that may be the Government's Mantra, but the vote was for a deal like Norway/Canada with £350m / week for the NHS - that is not being delivered; so the opposition has a responsibility to challenge what they are doing.

 

[Altfish]

There used to be a principle of losers consent in Britain before it became heavily influenced by the corrupt EU.

There used to be a principle of respect the losers; don't call them quislings, surrenders, etc