whats your beef with brexit?

[ratiocinator]

I justify it by being free of a ****ed up federal project that I would gladly pay extra to be rid of.

1. Shall I take it that you are withdrawing the claim that we could "save money and can be better off"?
   
   
2. It's odd that, despite several requests, it's still the case that nobody has given any down-to-earth, practical ways in which this "****ed up federal project" has made things worse or how being "free" from it will make anything better...

 

[England my lionheart]

1. Shall I take it that you are withdrawing the claim that we could "save money and can be better off"?
   
   
2. It's odd that, despite several requests, it's still the case that nobody has given any down-to-earth, practical ways in which this "****ed up federal project" has made things worse or how being "free" from it will make anything better...

The benefits are we can trade outside the EU,we will be rid of the bureacracy of the EU gravy train,we will be free of an undemocratic bankers paradise.

Oh and yes,we will save 9 billion a year from our yearly contribution,how many of the 27 pay that much?

 

[ratiocinator]

The benefits are we can trade outside the EU

We can already trade outside the EU.

we will be rid of the bureacracy of the EU

How has said "bureaucracy" made things worse for you?

gravy train,we will be free of an undemocratic bankers paradise.

Bluster.

Oh and yes,we will save 9 billion a year from our yearly contribution

Even the government's own estimates say we'll be worse off.

Want another go?

 

[Altfish]

We can already trade outside the EU.



How has said "bureaucracy" made things worse for you?



Bluster.



Even the government's own estimates say we'll be worse off.

Want another go?

Stop giving the Brexiteers facts - they get into a fluster if you do theyt start talking about Freedom, sy and Trade with places far away. They don't seem to realise we already have those, and trade with US and Australia, China, India, etc., comes with massive transportation costs. Not cheap and certainly not very green. Oh well the channel tunnel will be a lot quieter.

 

[England my lionheart]

We can already trade outside the EU.

Then there's no need for the EU.



How has said "bureaucracy" made things worse for you?

Really,you ever actually watched that government in action.



Bluster.

Iyo

Even the government's own estimates say we'll be worse off.

For a while maybe but we'll be ok long term.

Want another go?

Just once is sufficient

 

[England my lionheart]

Let's turn this on it's it's head,what are the benefits of being in the EU to the man in the street,free trade and freedom of movement apart?

 

[England my lionheart]

Also what are the eus plans for the next 10 years?

 

[ratiocinator]

Let's turn this on it's it's head,what are the benefits of being in the EU to the man in the street,free trade and freedom of movement apart?

Why would you leave them out? The ability to visit, live, or work anywhere in the EU is a tangible advantage, as is the ability to sell goods and services, and move money. There's also high food and environmental standards, guarantees of workers rights and freedom from discrimination, consumer rights. For travellers: no roaming charges, automatic right to emergency health care in any EU country, recognition of any EU driving licence. Millions of UK jobs depend on exports to the free market, manufacturing industry (such as automotive) often takes advantage of no customs and no delays to implement just-in-time delivery of parts throughout the EU, there's high safety standards for vehicles, and so on, and so on...

98 Reasons To Stay In The EU: Benefits Of Membership For The UK

 

[England my lionheart]

Why would you leave them out? The ability to visit, live, or work anywhere in the EU is a tangible advantage, as is the ability to sell goods and services, and move money. There's also high food and environmental standards, guarantees of workers rights and freedom from discrimination, consumer rights. For travellers: no roaming charges, automatic right to emergency health care in any EU country, recognition of any EU driving licence. Millions of UK jobs depend on exports to the free market, manufacturing industry (such as automotive) often takes advantage of no customs and no delays to implement just-in-time delivery of parts throughout the EU, there's high safety standards for vehicles, and so on, and so on...

98 Reasons To Stay In The EU: Benefits Of Membership For The UK

What's wrong with passports?,what's wrong with making our own workers rights?, freedom of movement is only useful for economic migrants or cheap labour,as for trade it's a big world.

 

[ratiocinator]

What's wrong with passports?

I didn't say anything about passports.

what's wrong with making our own workers rights?

The Tory party - this will be a race to the bottom.

freedom of movement is only useful for economic migrants or cheap labour

Tell that to the NHS.

as for trade it's a big world.

And getting free access to significant markets like the EU takes years of negotiations, and the UK will be desperate and have to take what we're given.

 

[Altfish]

Let's turn this on it's it's head,what are the benefits of being in the EU to the man in the street,free trade and freedom of movement apart?

Well, they are big benefits that we are going to lose, so excluding them is a bit like saying, "What's the benefit of winning the lottery apart from the money and financial security"
Free Trade = Cheaper Shopping; Freedom of Movement = No delays at borders

Free medical care - I'll have to discard my E1.11 as soon as we are out.
We can retire anywhere in the EU and still receive your pension.
We have better environmental protection because of the EU
We have better worker protection because of the EU
Lots of projects around where I live have been partially funded by the EU.
Safer vehicle standards
Universities benefit with students being able to study at any university in the EU
Universities in EU benefit massively from grants from EU for research
Prior to Brexit we had a relatively joined up and happy country - it is going to take decades to heal the divisions, if they ever heal.

I'm sure there are many more but those are off the top of my head

 

[ratiocinator]

From: Johnson’s Brexit leaves UK economy worse off than May’s - UK in a changing Europe

The Brexit proposal by Boris Johnson could reduce UK GDP per capita ten years after Brexit by between 2.3% and 7%, compared to remaining in the EU.

This compares to May’s deal which was -1.9% and -5.5% and no deal which is between -3.5% and -8.7%.

Under Johnson’s proposal the best case scenario would result in a £16bn hit to public finances per year based on current GDP and in the worst case scenario it would result in a £49bn hit to public finances per year based on current GDP.
​

 

[Altfish]

What's wrong with passports?,what's wrong with making our own workers rights?, freedom of movement is only useful for economic migrants or cheap labour,as for trade it's a big world.

Nothing wrong with Passports - although the UK passport is not as useful as an EU passport
Workers rights - in the hands of the Tories, you think we are safe!!!! The only reason Tim Martin (Weatherspoons) backs Brexit is so he can cut his stfaf wages.
Ask the fruit and vegetable farmers and the NHS and care home about the usefulness of free movement.
It is a big world and there are lots of countries to trade with and currently I can't think of any we don't trade with (Please correct me if you know otherwise)
But trading with France and Holland is a lot cheaper than trading with New Zealand and India.

 

[Altfish]

Looks like Bercow has again showed how to bring our Sovereignty back.

 

[England my lionheart]

From: Johnson’s Brexit leaves UK economy worse off than May’s - UK in a changing Europe

The Brexit proposal by Boris Johnson could reduce UK GDP per capita ten years after Brexit by between 2.3% and 7%, compared to remaining in the EU.

This compares to May’s deal which was -1.9% and -5.5% and no deal which is between -3.5% and -8.7%.

Under Johnson’s proposal the best case scenario would result in a £16bn hit to public finances per year based on current GDP and in the worst case scenario it would result in a £49bn hit to public finances per year based on current GDP.
​

Could doesn't mean will,it will be tough for a while and for the EU too,I think long term worse for the EU.

 

[England my lionheart]

Nothing wrong with Passports - although the UK passport is not as useful as an EU passport
Workers rights - in the hands of the Tories, you think we are safe!!!! The only reason Tim Martin (Weatherspoons) backs Brexit is so he can cut his stfaf wages.
Ask the fruit and vegetable farmers and the NHS and care home about the usefulness of free movement.
It is a big world and there are lots of countries to trade with and currently I can't think of any we don't trade with (Please correct me if you know otherwise)
But trading with France and Holland is a lot cheaper than trading with New Zealand and India.

I understand about the Tory part but really freedom of movement has produced cheap labour,it has also helped in people trafficking and going back to the man in the street in the less well off demigraphs not much of a benefit.

 

[Altfish]

Could doesn't mean will,it will be tough for a while and for the EU too,I think long term worse for the EU.

I don't remember that on the side of a bus??

 

[Altfish]

I understand about the Tory part but really freedom of movement has produced cheap labour,it has also helped in people trafficking and going back to the man in the street in the less well off demigraphs not much of a benefit.

People trafficking cannot be blamed on free movement - it is more to do with the UK's poor monitoring of modern slavery.

 

[ChristineM]

Let's turn this on it's it's head,what are the benefits of being in the EU to the man in the street,free trade and freedom of movement apart?

You mean what are the benefits without listing the benefits???

Ok,
improved infrastructure majority financed by the EU
Or how about food at a reasonable price
Greater global influence
With a madman in the Whitehouse the uks strongest allies are Germany and France
Did you mean we cant mention the fee trade outside the EU
Almost half the UK exports go the the EU. Thats a lot of jobs, 3.1 million in fact
Investment in areas hit by industrial decline
Agricultural support
Financial support for over 3000 small businesses
Funding for arts, film and sport
Human rights protection under EU charter are already planed to be cut
The right to vote in EU elections
Scientific funding
Research funding
Working time directive
Equal pay for equal jobs for men and women
The right to parental leave
Cross border policing offers greater protection from organised crime and terrorism
Lower cost European air travel


Actually this is getting boring. There are hundreds of benefits of EU membership to the average person in the street

 

[Altfish]

Who would trust the Tories with workers' rights: -
Dominic Raab: "Workers rights are so important that we took them out of the legally binding agreement to discuss separately"
But in 2012 he said, "Once they enter the workplace, the British are among the worst idlers in the world ... the British are more interested in Football and Pop Music"