There is nothing wrong with Freemasonry per se...but one cannot serve two masters, the State and the Lodge.
Which is what the parties in charge in Italy agreed on.
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whats your beef with brexit?
- Thread starter England my lionheart
- Start date
Which is what the parties in charge in Italy agreed on.
Altfish
Veteran Member
In Italy it is all about keeping the Mafia happy
Don't worry...Salvini jailed hundreds of mobsters since his arrival.
Notanumber
A Free Man
If it were the Left doing it, I would have to agree.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Guardian political columnist Rafael Behr appeared on BBC Politics Live alongside MEP Ben Habib, Labour candidate Faiza Shaeen and The Daily Telegraph’s Madeline Grant to talk about Brexit, the result of the Peterborough by-election and the future of the Conservative party.
The show’s host, Jo Coburn posed the following question to Behr: “Is Labour’s position on a second referendum becoming clearer?”
“No, because there’s clear division across the party…within the leader’s office, between different MPs,
I think we need to zoom out a little bit and ask what’s happened here. You had an argument in 2016, in very broad terms, in which – and this is a very important, very, very important point to make – no one, including people who voted remain, no one really understand exactly what withdrawing from the European Union would involve.
That was as true of people who voted remain as it was for people who voted leave.
You then triggered Article 50 and you had a process, a moment where Britain’s slightly abstract, weird, not very detailed, broadly fact-free debate about relationship with the European Union had a kind of bump into reality.
And someone had to go – the government ministers had to go – sit opposite the table from Michel Barnier and get schooled in the reality of what in actually means to withdraw from the European Union.
That process ended
Most Brexiteers looked to the outcome of that process, and what it actually said about the strategic reality of Britain’s relationship with the European Union, freaked out, said, ‘We don’t like that. We don’t like the terms that come out of that. We reject it.’
And now, after the brush-by with reality, our European Union debate has just sort of sailed off and now you have the Brexit Party essentially talking about the process just like it’s 2016 again and in total defiance of the actual reality and all of the evidence base you have accrued over the last two/three years and the Labour Party sitting back from that and going, ‘Maybe, if this whole house burns down, a Tory whole project, we can walk across the ashes and become a government,
It’s basically embarrassing for every other country in the world looking at this and goes, ‘That is a country that doesn’t even believe in economic and political gravity anymore.’
The show’s host, Jo Coburn posed the following question to Behr: “Is Labour’s position on a second referendum becoming clearer?”
“No, because there’s clear division across the party…within the leader’s office, between different MPs,
I think we need to zoom out a little bit and ask what’s happened here. You had an argument in 2016, in very broad terms, in which – and this is a very important, very, very important point to make – no one, including people who voted remain, no one really understand exactly what withdrawing from the European Union would involve.
That was as true of people who voted remain as it was for people who voted leave.
You then triggered Article 50 and you had a process, a moment where Britain’s slightly abstract, weird, not very detailed, broadly fact-free debate about relationship with the European Union had a kind of bump into reality.
And someone had to go – the government ministers had to go – sit opposite the table from Michel Barnier and get schooled in the reality of what in actually means to withdraw from the European Union.
That process ended
Most Brexiteers looked to the outcome of that process, and what it actually said about the strategic reality of Britain’s relationship with the European Union, freaked out, said, ‘We don’t like that. We don’t like the terms that come out of that. We reject it.’
And now, after the brush-by with reality, our European Union debate has just sort of sailed off and now you have the Brexit Party essentially talking about the process just like it’s 2016 again and in total defiance of the actual reality and all of the evidence base you have accrued over the last two/three years and the Labour Party sitting back from that and going, ‘Maybe, if this whole house burns down, a Tory whole project, we can walk across the ashes and become a government,
It’s basically embarrassing for every other country in the world looking at this and goes, ‘That is a country that doesn’t even believe in economic and political gravity anymore.’
Notanumber
A Free Man
Hopefully, it will become a country that can believe in democracy once more.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Notanumber
A Free Man
Does anyone even use Facebook anymore?
Notanumber
A Free Man
Why are these Tory leadership hopefuls not talking about the case in the High Court?
Brexit brawl: Esther McVey’s leadership launch in chaos as Brexiteer storms stage
Brexit brawl: Esther McVey’s leadership launch in chaos as Brexiteer storms stage
Notanumber
A Free Man
All Ester McVey could do while that Brexiteer tried to make his point was sit there and laugh.
That tells you something about the establishment Tory Party. All the elites p*** in the same pot.
I no longer trust any of them.
That tells you something about the establishment Tory Party. All the elites p*** in the same pot.
I no longer trust any of them.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
But at least she is a straight-talking politician and she was brave enough to give an opinion
Notanumber
A Free Man
But at least she is a straight-talking politician and she was brave enough to give an opinion
Being the best of the current bunch in power is not saying much.
As I said, I no longer trust any of them.
Altfish
Veteran Member
You're learning; and Farage and Johnson and the most corrupt and most prone to lying.
Mr2%'s just good at fighting
Notanumber
A Free Man
You would forgive them all that if they were communists.
Tommy is good at fighting but he is fighting against the odds because of our corrupt system.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Once again you are away with the fairies; cloud cuckoo land...
What don't you understand about 'centre ground'?
Just because you are somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun doesn't mean that people with a more compassionate view are communists.
Notanumber
A Free Man
From where I stand, that sounds like a medium to long term goal right now. You are just way too divided and way too passionate (at least among Leavers) for democracy to be very effective at fixing your anxieties.
A sobering thought, come to think of that.
Notanumber
A Free Man
A glimpse into the future, this is how the EU would like to treat the UK.
HONG WRONG: Protesters Take To Streets in Hong Kong
We already have this –
HONG WRONG: Protesters Take To Streets in Hong Kong
We already have this –