Treasure Hunter
Well-Known Member
To willingly suffer is a faith move. It’s unique to the higher consciousness which only human beings can access.
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What's your take on suffering and pain?
- Thread starter just_some_guy7090
- Start date
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- Tags
- compassion pain suffering
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I'll once more will repeat that there is no verifiable evidence of the above. However, the public story WE know, is the version as presented by the church off course. So I'ld take that PR with a grain of salt in either case.
Another thing though that CAN be verified, by Damien's own hand since it comes from his letters he sent to his family, is that Damien wasn't that pure of a human being. He was heavily racist and paternalistic. His motivations for the work he did in Hawai were rather questionable, in the beginning at least. He refers to the natives as savages and immoral people, for no other reason then the color of their skin and the fact that they weren't christians, among other things.
Later on in life his demeanor changed the longer he lived there, realizing his prejudice wasn't accurate and that these people were just friendly humans as much as the next guy back home.
I'm just saying, people tend to put such guys like Damien on a pedestal, presenting them as all loving and worthy of the title "holy" and what-not.
In reality, they really weren't like that. If you actually read about his character, the kind of person he actually was in every-day life... if such a figure lived today we would probably consider him very obnoxious, racist, mysoginistic and an overall very annoying and arrogant person.
In his defense, after a few years in Hawai he got humbled and indeed did some good work there. At the same time, imo his motivations even then were kind of corrupt.
His main concern wasn't to elevate suffering for the lepra victims. It was to sell them christianity and get them to convert. Not that his help for them was conditional on that though, which is a good thing. Nevertheless, I think motivations matter. Especially when we are going to hold such people up as examples of supposed altruism and self-sacrifice.
just_some_guy7090
New Member
Even if the story could be debunked as false or flawed, the concept of one who joins in the suffering of others speaks volumes and points to Jesus. His motives are pure, his suffering a choice, and his redemption complete for those who believe in him.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Which doesn't really make sense if we look into it. What's more productive? Partaking in the suffering or actually getting rid of it for good?
siti
Well-Known Member
Damn...that must have been written in very small print! I don't suppose you can get your money back either.
Best avoided I think...don't you?
just_some_guy7090
New Member
Christianity is based on Jesus doing both: sharing our suffering and eliminating it when he returns.
His resurrection provides evidence for our hope that the "getting rid of it for good" is coming.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Not if it was indeed the case that he was forced to go there as a punishment instead of out of his own free will for the purpose of "helping the suffering".
And regardless, you can't say of someone that he "joins the suffering" if his motivations aren't to actually "join the suffering" and / or help them.
Regardless, his motivations definitely weren't pure. Just like "mother" Theresa's motivations weren't pure.
The didn't do what they did to elevate suffering of those that suffered. Theresa was even worse then Damien as she actually believed that suffering was holy and a good thing. Which is why the sick in her "hospitals" were left to die on wooden planks instead of beds with actual medical care eventhough her "hospitals" should have been state-of-the-art considering the many millions, if not billions, she received in donations from around the world.
As for Damien, his primary goal in Hawai was to convert people - his own words, in his letters.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Jesus does not represent anything except the thinking of his people around the beginning of Christian era. We know nothing about him, what he said or for what purpose he was doing what it is believed that he was doing. All stories were concocted later and edited many times.
No God's empathy has helped humans. Wars, disasters, deprivations happen as always.
Suffering and pain are part of life, bear them, try to navigate wisely to avoid them.
Why would a God torture and kill a person to create a change that could have happened without it? God is either incompetent, or a sociopath.
That many Christians take this story literally and overlook the criminal act should make us concerned how moral these believers are. Don't forget it was Christians who executed people for witchcraft until the citizens rose up in protest. It was Christians who committed the Holocaust.
I suggest Christians stop being indoctrinated by their dogma and start looking at the ideas in their religion symbolically instead of literally.
The whole Jesus story is a crude Rube Goldberg invention. It make no sense literally. Those living in 2024 struggle to reconcile the absurd concepts taught to them by other Christians with science and facts. It's self-inflicted pain and suffering. How can a person find peace when their beliefs are contrary to reality?
If Christians are disstressed and need illusion to help themselves cope then fine. But living in such an illusion as a way of life IS pain and suffering, as it inevitably creates a victim mindset where the believer can seldom find peace, nor engage life realistically.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
I have struggled for a long time with trying to understand why people are so focused pain and suffering and almost suggesting we shouldn't have to deal with it. Then they create stories that a "loving" God wouldn't allow pain and suffering. Jesus is pretty clear you can't follow him if you don't suffer. To be a christian is to experience pain and suffering. We usually think of physical or emotional pain and suffering but following Jesus is painful in a different and more difficult way. Love your enemy, dont lie chest steal etc etc goes against our very human nature. To reign in our own passions and not do whatever we like is pain and suffering of a far more unpleasant type. Especially these days with sex and then internet etc etc. Refrain from those and see how much pain and suffering there really is. Sometimes pain is necessary for growth or our improvement. Think physical therapy. Pain and suffering as necessary to reach heaven.
An all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful deity would not need to respond to pain and suffering because she wouldn't allow it to begin with.
We should all "sit" with those who suffer to ease their pain hoping that some day when we suffer somebody will be with us.
He basically had the right idea, but I just hope he didn't inflict suffering on others via his religion.
Why assume they merely claimed to be Christians? Do you privilege Stalinists the same way by assuming those Stalinists who did evil were actually not "true" Stalinists? If we see Christianity for what it is, then the sooner we can rid the world of its evils.
No. Jesus revealed his true motive in John 9:
See that? The purpose of Jesus's healing people was to show off God's power! That's not compassion. To strike a man blind from birth to allow Jesus to heal the man to attract followers is wicked.
Actually, God demanded that his son suffer and die because God cannot "forgive" otherwise. The God of the Bible, if he exists, causes suffering. Why laud something like that?
Again, suffering is the Bible God's means to control people. The message is bow to me and stoke my ego, or you will suffer even more than you already are.
Much of life can be painful, but generally life is good.
If we cannot change what hurts us, then yes, we may need to adapt to it. But people seem to me to give up on doing anything about suffering especially when others suffer. If we would get off of our lazy, uncaring duffs, and help others, then we can rid the world of a lot of suffering.
Suffering and pain are just unavoidable parts of life that we all go through. 
Certainly not on objective assessment. From whose perspective?
Who is "we?"Suffering and pain are just unavoidable parts of life that we all go through.
Sensate creatures.
I always considered myself a sensate creature. Are you speaking for me?