When Did Religions First Begin?

[Sunstone]

Maybe they should try, I never find myself needing a god or religion to pray to.

Neither do I, but it seems that the majority of people get something out of it.

As I have said many of times, religion was introduced as control and weak people followed.

It doesn't matter how many times you've said it, my friend, the fact remains that that is a very gross and misleading simplification of how religions most likely got started.

The only good thing I can see in the bible is the ten commandments but even then they are just common sense and courtesy.

What have the Biblical religions got to do with this? They're newcomers compared to what's being talked about in this thread.

I'm fairly sure that cavemen never needed religion.

I'm fairly sure our ancestors had religions.

 

[darkpenguin]

Neither do I, but it seems that the majority of people get something out of it.



It doesn't matter how many times you've said it, my friend, the fact remains that that is a very gross and misleading simplification of how religions most likely got started.



What have the Biblical religions got to do with this? They're newcomers compared to what's being talked about in this thread.



I'm fairly sure our ancestors had religions.

the bible thing was fairly irrelavent.
You are entitled to your opinions as am I and i respect your opinions.

 

[James the Persian]

I'm fairly sure that cavemen never needed religion.

Really? I think you ought to investigate the archaeological record a bit more, because it most certainly doesn't support your view.

Just because you don't feel a need for the spiritual (and it doesn't necessarily have to be expressed in religion) does not mean that it is not an intrinsic part of human nature. There are always those who simply don't fit in some way (and there are even more who deny aspects of themselves they are uncomfortable with, often subconsciously). As examples, I'd assume that you'd think that empathy is an innate part of human nature and yet there are those who are incapable of it. There are also, as an example of those in the second group, people who are overtly homophobic and yet subconsciously attracted to teir own gender. Human psychology is far, far more complicated than you appear to asume, and the idea of a basic spiritual need in humans is one that comes up frequently in psychological research. The claim is by no means outlandish.

And please don't try and tell me that the need I feel is a want because if you can't feel it yourself you simply have no way of knowing.

James

 

[doppelganger]

I'm fairly sure our ancestors had religions.

Lascaux?

And some art dates to perhaps as far back as 300,000 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-historic_art

 

[Sunstone]

Spirituality began with the first work of art. Religion began with the first person to interpret it.

Either that, or spirituality began with the first "big" dream. Religion began with the first person to interpret it.

 

[Willamena]

I'm fairly sure that cavemen never needed religion.

Nevermind cavemen, it's supposed (by those more knowledgable than I) that even the Neanderthal had religion.

 

[darkpenguin]

Really? I think you ought to investigate the archaeological record a bit more, because it most certainly doesn't support your view.

Just because you don't feel a need for the spiritual (and it doesn't necessarily have to be expressed in religion) does not mean that it is not an intrinsic part of human nature. There are always those who simply don't fit in some way (and there are even more who deny aspects of themselves they are uncomfortable with, often subconsciously). As examples, I'd assume that you'd think that empathy is an innate part of human nature and yet there are those who are incapable of it. There are also, as an example of those in the second group, people who are overtly homophobic and yet subconsciously attracted to teir own gender. Human psychology is far, far more complicated than you appear to asume, and the idea of a basic spiritual need in humans is one that comes up frequently in psychological research. The claim is by no means outlandish.

And please don't try and tell me that the need I feel is a want because if you can't feel it yourself you simply have no way of knowing.

James

I have in the past felt a wanting to belong, it went pretty much as soon as it came.
It wasn't a needing.
Humans need sleep, we need food and we need water.
We don't need religion, the world in my opinion would be a better place without it.
But hey i respect that you want religion in your life, I really do. But because I respect your wanting for it, it doesn't mean that I have to understand it.
For me it is irrational to believe in something that isn't visible.

 

[doppelganger]

Either that, or spirituality began with the first "big" dream. Religion began with the first person to interpret it.

Recording that dream in some form probably was the first work of art.

 

[darkpenguin]

Nevermind cavemen, it's supposed (by those more knowledgable than I) that even the Neanderthal had religion.

As a theory yes I suppose people do believe that but it's not set in stone as fact.

 

[Willamena]

Maybe they should try, I never find myself needing a god or religion to pray to.

Just curious: then why do you claim the Heathen religion?

 

[Willamena]

As a theory yes I suppose people do believe that but it's not set in stone as fact.

Well, if, for instance, archaeological evidence of cermony and ritual in burial can suggest a belief in "life after death," why is not reasonable to assume religious belief? Why else would do they that?

 

[James the Persian]

I have in the past felt a wanting to belong, it went pretty much as soon as it came.
It wasn't a needing.
Humans need sleep, we need food and we need water.
We don't need religion, the world in my opinion would be a better place without it.
But hey i respect that you want religion in your life, I really do. But because I respect your wanting for it, it doesn't mean that I have to understand it.
For me it is irrational to believe in something that isn't visible.

I didn't say that there was an innate need for religion, I said spirituality. There is a very real difference. And if you did feel that need you would have no doubt that it's a need and not a want. If you do feel it and try to convince yourself of the truth of atheism, or more properly the falsehood of spirituality as Buddhism despite its atheism filled the gap just fine, the void that is left, the 'itch' if you like is really rather reminiscent of how you feel quitting smoking, except that it doesn't fade with time like an adiction does. That's clearly need, not want (and yes I'm intimately familiar with both the the two states I just compared and, to me, it is atheism, not belief in God that appears irrational).

James

 

[darkpenguin]

Just curious: then why do you claim the Heathen religion?

Heathens in England were people who didn't follow the beliefs of the christians who imposed the religion on this country.
Alas I am a heathen according to christians!

 

[doppelganger]

I didn't say that there was an innate need for religion, I said spirituality. There is a very real difference.

Amen to that.

 

[darkpenguin]

(and yes I'm intimately familiar with both the the two states I just compared and, to me, it is atheism, not belief in God that appears irrational).

James

How do you figure? I'm intrigued.

 

[Willamena]

Heathens in England were people who didn't follow the beliefs of the christians who imposed the religion on this country.
Alas I am a heathen according to christians!

Right; they followed their own religion.

 

[Sunstone]

Lascaux?

And some art dates to perhaps as far back as 300,000 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-historic_art

You might be fascinated to hear that Chauvet is even older than Lascaux.

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/chauvet/en/index.html

 

[darkpenguin]

Well, if, for instance, archaeological evidence of cermony and ritual in burial can suggest a belief in "life after death," why is not reasonable to assume religious belief? Why else would do they that?

And yes I know that on wiki the word heathen equates to paganism or nature dwellers, and if thats your view on the word then i'm happy to go along with that.
I'm more comfortable celebrating nature then I am a god who for me isn't there.

 

[doppelganger]

You might be fascinated to hear that Chauvet is even older than Lascaux.

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/chauvet/en/index.html

Thanks, Phil. I remember reading about it years ago but I never followed up much. This was discovered after my days studying Anthropology in college.

 

[darkpenguin]

Well, if, for instance, archaeological evidence of cermony and ritual in burial can suggest a belief in "life after death," why is not reasonable to assume religious belief? Why else would do they that?

Superstitions maybe?